The Passion of the Collector

By Ariel Antebi . March 7, 2006 . 11:38am

Most people buy games to play them, but a growing number of gamers are joining the collection craze. Video game collecting is a rising hobby where gamers spend hours, weeks, and even months to hunt down video game rarities. Their collection is a trophy room with copies of Tengen’s version of Tetris for the NES and prototype cartridges of unreleased Super Nintendo games among a library of gaming goodness. We had a chance to speak to one such collector, LordofThunder, who has made quite a few comments regarding Game Quest Directs’ reprints.

 

LordofThunder made provocative comments about reprints such as “All you morons who don’t understand retro gaming or game collecting, save your money, and buy yourself a PSP” and “to those morons who say “Games are for people to play”, well let me make an example of something. Four or five years ago, Suikoden 2 and Valkyrie Profile were only worth about $20 each. Now that the prices of those games on eBay have gone over $100.00, there are a bunch of people who now want the game, simply due to the price that it’s getting.” Before you go flaming him, listen to what he has to say. He’s a proud collector and has some interesting thoughts which we gave him the opportunity to share. (Editors note: The opinions below do not in anyway or in any parallel universe represent those of Siliconera, this is one collector’s chance to speak out.)

 

I’ve been collecting games for about 6-7 years. I own about a thousand games, from Nes to PS2. The most treasured piece in my collection is hard for me to say. I guess it would have to be my complete Dragon Warrior 1-4 series on Nes. I bought them off the internet.

 

Why do I collect games? First of all I like to play them. There are tons of good games on many systems, like the old Nes, Super Nes, Genesis, Dreamcast, PS1, and more. The ones I’m most into are rpgs. Those are always the most sought after games for all the classic systems. Yes, of course the monetary value is important. The best games that people want, that are old and hard to find, often are worth the most money. Why do people make video game price guides? You can go to IGN.com, list your collection, and it will give you the collective monetary value. How could the monetary value of your games not be important, when you have so much time and money invested in them in the first place?   

 

What do I think about people who want to play hard to find games? Well, if you can’t find it, then you can’t play it. Borrow it from one of your friends who has it. Trade for it. People are looking for games that are 5 or 10 years old and older, and they expect them to fall into their lap? I myself have 20 or so games that I am currently trying to acquire. That doesn’t mean we re-issue every high dollar game just so people who don’t have the time or money to acquire it, can get it for less.

 

People want the high dollar game but for some reason they don’t think they should have to pay the price that everybody else paid for it. They say, "Games are meant to be played, everybody who wants to play a game, should have a chance to play it." Well, why do they want to play it in the first place, because it’s worth so much money? If it wasn’t worth as much money, would they still want to play it?

 

Sometimes these games are really not that great, like Rez for PS2. It didn’t do very good in the marketplace. Then the few people who wanted it, would go on eBay and it started selling for 60-70 used. Then more people wanted to play it, because it sold for so much. Why did it sell for that much? Because nobody could find it. Not because it was a good game, or because it was worth playing.

 

Games from my collection that Game Quest reprinted are Persona 2, and Rhapsody. I estimate that de-valued my collection by about $100. I also own Suikoden 2 and Valkyrie Profile, which Game Quest mentioned they are planning on re-issuing. (Editors Note: Game Quest Direct did not specifically state official plans on re-releasing either of these titles).

 

It’s all about profit when it comes to re-issuing games. I am less against re-issuing Rez, because I don’t quite consider PS2 games to be collector’s items yet. But I am against the re-issuing of PS1, and Saturn titles, and any other collectible system before that. If you want Dragon Force, then go on eBay, and cough up $50 for it. If you want to play it bad enough, you will. It was $50.00 when it came out new, wasn’t it? Buy it, play it, resell it. Problem solved. I don’t see what these people are complaining about. I wish somebody would sell me a mint Panzer Dragoon Saga for $25.00, but it’s not going to happen. I don’t need Game Quest re-issuing one for me either. If they did, it wouldn’t be Panzer Dragoon Saga. I sure didn’t need Game Quest to acquire any of the games I own now.

 

PS1 is a classic system with many many great titles, I think it should be left alone as well as anything that came out before that. Game Quest says they will try to re-issue every game that sells for over $100.00 on eBay. They have absolutely no respect for the video game collecting community. Does this mean that they are going to re-issue games like Panzer Dragoon Saga? What systems are they talking about? Do they hold anything sacred? What is they’re stance on people who paid hundreds of dollars for rare games, and now might see that game re-issued for the masses thus depreciating it’s value substantially and permanently?

 

As for making different artwork for the reprints or marking them to distinguish them from the "originals", that will not protect the value of the games. That has already been proven to be ineffective in protecting the value of rare games. Even rare games that were re-released on different systems, like the Megaman collections on PS2 and Gamecube, which aren’t even on the original systems those games were released for, still substantially affect the value of the original games.

 

How nice, let’s let people buy up all these re-prints, without letting on that we reprinted them, and that we basically have unlimited supply. Let’s take advantage of the eBay gaming marketplace. Then let’s do it again. Not to mention screwing all the people who paid big money for the game in the first place. In fact, they were actually screwing the people buying the re-issues too. 

 

And whatever Game Quest says, the only reason they’re doing this is to make money. They apparently have been successful with past re-issues, and have no plans of stopping, they even said that themselves, and I think that the entire eBay gaming community and classic gaming community, and anyone who collects games, and cares about the hobby, needs to boycott Game Quest. If Game Quest does enough re-issues, then there won’t be anymore rare games to re-issue, and that $20,000 video game collection, will become a $10,000 video game collection, or a $5,000 video game collection.

 

I paid good money for a lot of my games. I’ve spent thousands and thousands of dollars. I’ve spent countless hours going to flea markets, second hand shops, it’s not just eBay where I buy games. I’ve found plenty of good deals at those kinds of places. That’s the best thing about being a collector. Finding something rare that you’ve been trying to get, and even better when you get a great deal on it. That’s what real gamers do, if you don’t have the money to buy it off the internet, then you go out and find it yourself.

 

Imagine all the rare games disappearing, and becoming the same price, and flooding eBay. This is already happening to the rarest PS1 titles. When will it stop? This could have a huge effect on the eBay video game marketplace, and the hobby of collecting games itself, while Game Quest gets rich, by destroying the collector and monetary value of every rare game they set their sights on, and seemingly expecting nobody to ever find out what’s going on. Well now that we know, we need to start boycotting Game Quest, or all of us game collectors will be collecting stamps.
 

 



  • Steve
    While I can sort of understand the anger at the loss of time and money invested, I still believe that game collecting can hurt people that just want to play the games. I find the idea that a game's monetary worth is what leads people to play it as ridiculous. I seek to play games that are recommended to me as fun or intersting, not because they are worth $100. Also, due to the fact that the market stays towards mainstream style games nowadays to guarantee sales, it is people who try to pursue the innovative games that are produced in lower quantities that get punished. I find now that I have to constantly eye games which I may want to play at sometime in the future and buy them long before I even have time to play them in an effort to get them at a price before "collectors" get a hold of them. I think being a collector is cool and important for the video game culture as a whole, that doesn't excuse driving up game prices on eBay for a medium that is meant to be played. So you have some $100 game that I've never heard of... is that supposed to impress me? Why should I even care if I haven't played it or seen it played to really appreciate it for the game it is.
  • 573
    He's a moron.I really don't think he has a damn clue what he's talking about. He also assumes everyone has money coming out of their ass, too.

    I don't even see why you guys posted this obnoxious elitist ranting.

    "And whatever Game Quest says, the only reason they’re doing this is to make money."

    So are you, you you goddamn idiot.
  • Mr_Saturn
    I've yet to actually SEE a price guide for video games that is similar to the price guides that are published for nearly every other type of collectable item.

    And is Lord of thunder mad that valkyrie profile is getting a PSP port because it will devalue his PRECIOUS COLLECTION?
  • I recently bought a vinyl re-issue of "Wish You Were Here" by Pink Floyd, if there was nobody making re-issues of that album, I'd be stuck with the re-issue and/or remastered re-issue on CD. But if it was never re-issued on CD in the first place (it came out in 1976) then the only way to buy it was hope that the eBay copy I would have to have bought would be about the price of a new Hummer H2 and side 1 would be scratched all to hell.

    If gamers and thevideogame industry want to be recognised as a 'true' industry or artform, then re-issues would have to happen, even on a larger scale. Think of the music industry or the movie industry, if they were set up like the videogame industry, it'd be a nightmare to find a good, clean, copy of albums like "Led Zeppelin IV" or "Pearl Jam: Ten". Who in their right mind would want that?
  • Anon
    Quite frankly it's not your place to criticize video game reissues. You're a collector but more importantly you're a consumer, you didn't make these games and calling for a boycott is ridiculous. Basically your article comes down to this: reissues devalue games and rips off everyone. Systems are not perfect, look at the NES, the thing is a dust magnet, and must be replaced unless maintained constantly. Newer, cleaner, more efficient game systems are much cheaper and won't break down nearly as much as that old Atari or Genesis. So why not bring back the games which hold so many nostalgic memories to people? I couldn't buy Final Fantasy 6 when it came out back in 1994. But thanks to the wonders of the Playstation, it's affordable.

    Holding onto old technologies and being ignorant to new methods of using it is like holding onto your old car. Sure, you can fix up the old car and make it look like a 'classic' but most of us don't have the time for that so it rusts. What I'm getting at here is that you expect everyone to have the money and time to be a true retro gamer. Personally, I'd rather have reissues as it helps the original game publishers. Atlus is a fantastic publisher but it seems so easy to miss their new releases even if you wait just a couple months! It's a losing situation for everyone when that happens (except of course for the collector who gets to sit back while his mint copy of Persona 1 gains value.)

    In closing, kudos to all of you that are retro collectors. You want to play Kirby on the original NES, please do. But please don't call for boycotts or impede in the way of rereleasing classic games. Value and money are the main factors in your arguement and you are forgetting that reissues help the game market. Without them, people would just emulate, leaving no old-games for anyone.
  • FredSeton
    I have been both in my time: a collector and a gamer.
    I was one of the few that snapped up a Saturn as it dwindled to $20 (packaged with NiGHTS) and several import games that my local Electronics Boutique was selling. In one fell swopp I snagged Radiant Silvergun and D&D Collection.
    Those were/are excellent games.
    I continued snatching up any import I could find and made a little shrine for them in my entertainment center; something to charge the imagination and jealousy of my friends.
    A few years later I went back to college.
    New York University is not cheap and although I commuted for 4 years from outside of Philadelphia it still took a hefty toll on my wallet.
    Eventually I had to hop on eBay and part with these games. I always held out hope, however, that once college was over and I had a job that I would reclaim my Saturn collection.
    Fast forward 4 years and I found a job. It was now time to recapture the past.
    I hopped on eBay, entered "Radiant Silvergun" into the engine and...F*** ME.
    Same with the the US Guardian Heroes.
    Same with D&D Collection.
    F*** ME.

    I really just wanted to play those games on my ill-fated 2D powerhouse. Whatever special pride I may feel by having those games that countless others did not was eclipsed by the joy of actually playing them.
    That said, I decided I'd just steal the little bastards back. But the copy protection on the Saturn is a stunning thing and I refused to "disc swap" or get a mod chip.

    Now I hear rumors that GQD may in fact reprint some of these games, with the help of SEGA or whoever, and I rejoice.

    Video game collectors are a sorry lot. Not because of their temprament or their penchant to call others "moron." No. They are a sorry lot because of the items they collect and the industry that spawns them.
    Unlike Wizards Of The Coast with their Magic cards or comic book publishers with their, well, comic books, the publishers of video games make no money off the secondary market. Were Wizards to reprint the Black Lotus and Juzam Djinn tomorrow, the backlash would be extraordinary. Card shops that hold Wizards-sanctioned events would stop paying their fees, players that enter tourneys in hopes of winning one of those ultra rare cards would feel no need to submit their $50 entry fee, collectors would go on murderous rampages, etc.
    Wizards has an obligation to their collectors because the cards, after all is said and done, are labeled a "COLLECTIBLE Trading Card Game." Indeed, Wizards and similar companies financial futures depend on not re-issuing.
    This is not true of the video game industry.
    The industry in general and their publishers in particular depend solely on making money. As retro-gaming becomes more and more popular as a subculture it only stands to reason that these companies will feel a buck can be made.
    Don't blame GQD for they are only part of what you feel is "the problem." Sega is a partner of theirs. Whoever owns the Atlus catalog is a partner of theirs. Sony is a partner of theirs. And why?
    To make a buck.
    Make no mistake, the joy that have-not gamers and the rage that hard-core collectors feel is purely incidental.
    It's all about the money.

    And I for one, happen to think that's a great thing.
    Especially if it means I can play Panzer Dragoon Saga without selling my sister into white slavery.
  • Hmm I can understand how you feel but the point is that not everyone is rich.
    I personally love reprints as I can then buy them for my new console instead of lugging that old box around where only a few games will be worth playing anymore.
    Sure I've collected games and I have a few rare ones like Panzer Dragoon Saga and Radiant Silvergun and lucky for me I bought them when they were cheap at retail prices. Sure they are good games but worth in excess of 100 pounds they are not.
    I'm sure someones taking advantage of this collectables business since games like Radiant Silvergun don't seem to go for less that 100 pounds but its ironic how the game gets sold and then the very next day the same person has another copy.
    I don't think games are something that should be collected with prize possessions the way it has been happening with games like Radiant Silvergun. Games are there to be played not just kept because they are worth a lot of money so I applaud Game Quest sure a few angry collectors will do silly things like boycott their games but lucky for Game Quest everyone likes a good deal and would prefer to pay 25 pounds as opposed to 100 pounds :D
  • What a pitiful character...

    Metal Slug 1 on Neo Geo AES isn't great because it's a 1000$ on Ebay, but just because it plain rocks and still is the most enjoyable Metal Slug game today.
    And it wouldn't get greater or worse just because it's 15$ in the bargin bin at EBGames.
    Same goes for Super Mario World which is sometimes just a handful of dollars - it's an amazing game, endless hours of fun, and it's not worse than REZ just because I payed 1,50 instead of 80 Bucks. Heck, what about games like today's Psychonauts - it's amazingly great, yet nobody cares for it... and I don't think people would find it more amazing if it was twice as much or just half the price it is now.
    People who buy games just because they are expensive are plain weird... I never bought a game and thought it was awesome because I had to spend 5x as much money on it than on my other games... what kind of logic is that!?

    All his arguments just circle around earning money, dropping and raising prices, and whatnot... what about the games?

    I actually feel some kind of pressure when I get game after game, and just don't know how I should ever play them all... it feels wasted, and unfair towards the games in some way (yeh, silly me). Because what good is having a game when you put it on your shelf and leave it there to rot? It's ment to be played - not stashed away so 3 collectors with too much time and money on their hands can slobber over it and admire each other for having obtained a copy.

    And about re-releases - imo they're mankinds greatest invention (even beating sliced bread) - I have 3000 ZX Spectrum discs on a handsome little DVD (legal) that fits nicely with my other games. Where would I store 3000 discs - where would I put 3000 cardboardboxes!? I don't want to rent a warehouse, just because I enjoy old games. And nowadays emulation lets me emulate shitty screens and whatnot... and even the Competition Pro returned from the dead - it's like the good old times, but better!

    Or take CAPCOMs Classic Collection - it just spares me the trouble of obtaining those annoying CPS1 pcbs which are mostly broken in one way or the other (and are a pain to restore back to former glory). And don't even get me started on those goddamn CPS2 "suicide" boards... annoying to shell out quite a bunch of bucks to see the game die in front of your eyes (or being dead already after hearing from the seller that it like... totally worked)!
    Doesn't happen on MAME or on the PS2/Xbox/whatever...

    Collecting is great fun, and so are videogames - but collecting for the sake of just having a "big, fat, expensive collection" and just having games because they are rare and go for big bucks on ebay is actually very sad.

    In fact, I think Mr. Collector might be better off with stamps after all.
  • Good for gamequest, I am glad they are doing what they are doing. Games are just data on a disk, and even artwork and books get reprinted, so what are you complaining about? Why should people be deprived of a masterpiece just because you bought the original edition at a inflated price? Books get second editions, artworks get second prints, heck comics get graphic novel editions. I dont understand the statement "it wouldn’t be Panzer Dragoon Saga..." if you didnt pay a massive amount of money for it, it would be the same game experience if I paid $5 dollars or $500. A first edition of Spiderman number one goes for alot of money, but I didnt have to pay that to read it, but I am sure I enjoyed it just as much, paying more would not have made me enjoy it more.
  • I've just come across this post three weeks late, which is an epoch in Internet time, but ... ah well. I have to comment.

    I have to say I largely disagree with LoT and agree with the above commentors. Games ARE meant to be played, regardless of price. I'm interested in great games, not expensive ones. That's why a NES cart like Bubble Bobble will also have a higher value in my mind than some junk like Bubble Bath Babes. While I would love to have a copy of BBB, I'd only buy if it were a deal. What constitutes a "deal" is different for every collector, but I think you get my drift.

    I'm a collector who loves playing games on the original hardware; and I have NO interested in just getting a bunch of emulator ROMs. That said, I have no problem with re-issues -- so long as the re-issued packaging contains some kind of identifying mark that lets you know it's not original. It's got to have SOMETHING, however small, that clearly labels it as a repro.

    Famous and/or collectible coins, comic books and baseball cards all have been reproduced over the years and collectors have ways of telling fakes from the genuine article. A REAL collector will still be interested in obtaining orginal copies. Meanwhile, people who can't shell out a bunch of money wil get to play great games though the efforts of people like Game Quest. So long as the repros are clearly marked and so long as collectors continue to take their hobby seriously, then the value of the games shouldn't decrease by much, if at all.
  • Bungiefan
    All collectors do is lock up games that had very limited quantity to make it harder for the people that actually want to play it to do so, unless they pay a ridiculous price for a used copy where none of the money from the sale goes to the developers of the game. At least with reprints, it becomes easier for the people interested in actually playing to do so, and they can buy the game new from a company that paid the developer/publisher of the game for that copy to be created, and the price is lower than the gougers/collectors demand for used copies.

    It is a service to everyone except the collectors, and if you're after software just for the monetary value, those of us who aren't collectors don't appreciate you either. There is nothing wrong with the price of a game decreasing, as it makes that game more accessible to people. The high price you collectors charge just serves to draw attention to some older games that were in small numbers of production. Games like Tales of Eternia just weren't widely known because the publisher never bothered to advertise them, and then spares were recalled before word of mouth could spread. That doesn't justify the high price people have to pay for the game now that they learned about the series because Nintendo did a major advertisement campaign for Tales of Symphonia.

    With reprints having a higher chance of happening, the price of games can fall to what they are worth for actual content, instead of what they are worth just for being rare.
  • knuckles-chaotix
    Ive been collecting for 3 years now and loving it..
    I have all the dc shooters LE editions etc..
    And many rare nintendo items/games and consoles..

    Nearly all my consoles are as new boxed etc even my sc-1000 MRK 1 and II consoles..

    I do play them and really enjoy the old school more than todays garbage.
    Who cares what people have to say..
    Collect what ya want when ya want!
  • reggie
    i just started collecting video games again and it yall
    what systems do u guys have
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