Siliconera Sounds Off: Appealing To Core Girl Gamers

By Ishaan . November 15, 2009 . 3:45pm

Originally, the discussion started out with me asking if there was a way for more RPG publishers to replicate Final Fantasy’s success with female gamers. Jenni was quick to point out, though, that the female audience that plays Final Fantasy also likely indulges in other role-playing games.

Participants this week are: Nick, Jenni and Laura.

Jenni: I think that the topic statement is flawed. I think the female audience that is playing Final Fantasy is playing other RPGs, probably even strategic RPGs or simulations as well. Personally, I started playing RPGs with the Genesis Phantasy Star games, and didn’t start really getting into the Final Fantasy games until I got the PC version of Final Fantasy VII and the guide on sale from CompUSA.

Over half of my female friends play games, and the majority play RPGs exclusively. Ask any of us what we’re playing, and it is inevitably some kind of Square Enix, Namco Bandai, Atlus, Ignition or Xseed RPG. Two of my close friends are playing through Persona 3 FES right now. I’m playing Mario & Luigi: Bowser’s Inside Story. One of my other friends is playing Tales of Vesperia, and another of my friend’s wife is starting Demon’s Souls. I’ve even convinced my mom to play Nostalgia.

I think a better question would be, how can we convince the sizeable female audience that is playing RPGs to try other game genres? While I played a lot of fighting games and platformers as a child, there was a large period of my life where all I played were RPGs. I didn’t start getting into other genres again, like action, music, fighting and miscellaneous, until I got a PS2 in college.

Nick: Like with anything, ease them into it. Back to my example, if you want me to go play some pro football, you should start by letting me watch some football. Then toss the pigskin around a bit (I’m discussing American Football… pardon my late clarification), then maybe some rec games of Flag Football, then touch, then tackle, etc. Same with people and games. Start with letting them see what gaming can offer, then move them into something simple but fun, etc, etc dominos and whatnot.

This still isn’t answering the topic. How can we move females playing Final Fantasy into other RPGs? If they are FF-exclusive people, then they’re fools and you shouldn’t associate with them anyway. Jokes aside, they probably aren’t. They’ve probably dabbled in other RPGs, but maybe they prefer the mainstream accessibility FF games offer. What other RPGs are like that? Show it to them, let them borrow it, and so on.

No mass market appeal will be viable for those already entrenched in a certain franchise. Only word-of-mouth and personal discussion can move this supposed segment into different RPGs, to me. Advertise something like Resonance of Fate all you want — if the topic’s group of gamers see it isn’t Final Fantasy, they won’t care unless they try it first. Or, they’re playing other RPGs already and they’ll be interested. It’s all up to them, basically, and only we, as their friends, can help them try new things, be it a different RPG style, or a different genre altogether. Or cosplaying. That might be too much, though. I could never get myself to do that. Shyness… FTL.

Jenni: Sometimes, RPG players just don’t want to cross over to other genres. They’re happy with the kinds of games they play, typically get at least 40 hours of entertainment out of it and if there are side quests, a New Game + feature or multiple endings they get replay value as well. There’s nothing wrong with being satisfied with one genre.

But, if you really want to get them to other genres, then you need genre bending games. Games that really do a great job of embracing two different genres at once. Then, the RPG games get to try a little something new while still enjoying the genre they know they love. One series that springs to mind is Persona, specifically Persona 3 and 4. Both have the standard RPG flavor, but also toss in a hint of a life simulation game. Not to mention that Persona 3 Portable is practically an RPG/visual novel hybrid. Another good example is the recent NIS America release Atelier Annie: Alchemists of Sera Island. Again, it has the RPG battle system and quests, but also has the item gathering and creating processes that fall more into the simulation genre.

Laura: I agree with Jenni and believe that incorporating certain elements of RPG into other genres would be a good way to drag the RPG-focused crowd away from just that genre. Some of the more obvious areas would be story and characters — even though I’m mainly an RPG player, I would play even a sports game had it those aspects … even if I knew nothing about sports (which I don’t).

Quite honestly, though, I feel that aesthetic design of the game is also very important. The example that pops off the top of my head is Resident Evil 4. Having played only RPGs for a long time, I was very hesitant to dabble my fingers in new genres, survival/horror included. What got me in the end was actually some of the concept art on the characters in the game, and while the Plagas were incredibly graphic at times, they weren’t just bleeding zombies from so many other games. This may possibly be only with me, I could relate more to Leon because he was not the super macho man Chris was.

Grabbing an example from future releases, I believe Sky Crawlers: Innocent Aces will also have more of a female audience than one would think a flight simulator would attract. That game intrigued me as well when I had first read about it, and it’s actually on my preorder list. While this may sound superficial, but in that game, if you don’t care about flying the plane, it’s OK. It’s not just a flight simulator — you’re not flying solely for the sake of flying. There’s also the story and the characters to keep your mind on the game. The art — Japanese anime style — made me want to pick up the box and, as a fan of anime, it automatically drew me in. While in the game itself, the art is (thus far seen in trailers) 3D, it still holds that distinct quality that appeals to those who like anime. It’s kind of like a working of all three parts.

While forcibly keel-hauling the female audience away from RPGs is impossible, as Nick has pointed out, a gradual merging between genres is a plausible solution.

TAGS: Siliconera Sounds Off

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Jaxel

I think this topic as a whole is flawed. It shouldn't be about how to appeal to a male gamer, or a female gamer; it should just be how to appeal to a gamer. The types of girls who play games are no different then the types of guys who play games. A gamer may like Final Fantasy, or Call of Duty, or Madden or Demon's Souls; does it matter what sex they are? Yes, games like Nintendogs and Brain Age are popular amongst females; but you also must remember that they are just as popular amongst males.

Now if you are trying to get your girlfriend into games; isn't it wrong to try to force it upon her? The solution is to simply let them WATCH you play a game that you wouldn't mind watching yourself. For instance, Uncharted 2; its a game worth watching, and non-gamers alike can participate since its basically a long movie. If they really have interest, then maybe they will pick up the controller in time. Nothing really makes someone resent something more than having it forced upon them.

abasm

I beg to differ, but only slightly. From my experience, female gamers, (that is, those who play games beyond standard casual fare) tend to adhere pretty closely to slower-paced games than male gamers.

Of the girls I know that play games, they largely play games that do not heavily penalize the player for slow responses or reflexes. These include turn-based RPGs, especially the prominent Final Fantasy and Pokemon, (Fire Emblem seems to be popular as well) sim-games, such as Animal Crossing and The Sims, and combat-light adventure/platformer games, such as Legend of Zelda, or Mario.

Of the female gamers I know, most largely stay away from "intense" genres such as FPSs and fighting games. I postulate that is because such games have a a high initial learning curve, as opposed to the more accessible genres.

Perhaps this is because guy gamers are gluttons for punishment? We play games that require the player to acquire a very specialized skill set over a relatively short period of time. Once you've played one turn-based RPG, you can pretty much play them all. Once you've played Guilty Gear...well, you can play Guilty Gear, and that's something, at least.

shirokiryuu

This is me. I have terrible reflexes, and prefer RPGs and visual novel-esque games because of that. I have to admit having dating sim elements does appeal to me, (if the protagonist is a girl). However on the other end of the spectrum, my best friend, also a girl loooooves FPS, fighting games, and has great reflexes.

Ereek

I may have some strange female friends, I'm one of those women who generally gets along better with males, but most of my friends absolutely hate playing online FPS. They like Co-Op, but anything online with voice chat is a no-no. This isn't necessarily any one developer's fault, but rather the misguided idea that girl gamers are A: Rare and B: Inferior.

When it comes to MMORPGs, my experience with other women is that the world, music, environments, and story make more of an impact to them than they do to males. Also from my own experiences, I've seen less females use the game as a place to "chat." I can't say how widespread this is, since I've only played WoW and, to a greater extent, FFXI.

I spent a while back visiting my mother and playing Metal Gear Solid 1-3 with her. We also played Persona 4 over the course of some 4 months. She preferred Metal Gear Solid because she liked how both over-the-top not-really-realistic the story was. She also really loved the story in Folklore and the atmosphere in Shadow of the Colossus. As a very "mainstream" gamer, she likes Brain Age, Nintendogs, the like, she also finds good graphics very important.

I think more and more younger girl gamers are getting drawn into video games now that anime has become more widespread in the US. Sasuke Uchiha is the Nick Carter or Justin Timberlake of this generation. Because of this, I think the anime games are a great place to start appealing towards younger females. You see Bleach RPGs all the time, that's a great place to start getting into different genres.

Also of note from my own experience with younger females is the rising popularity of "dating sim" mechanics. I don't just mean Persona, I'm speaking Ar tonelico, Atelier, Avalon Code (which was surprisingly popular with the girls I know), Growlanser, and to a lesser extent DQV.

Ishaan

Fully agree with your dating-sim point. I think it's great that more games are starting to incorporate those, and I keep hoping it'll lead people to pay a little more attention to bishoujo games in general, since some of those do a great job of developing characters and exploring their interactions. Dating-sim aspects definitely help make the genre more appealing.

I'm surprised to hear your mother liked Metal Gear though. Haha, didn't see that coming. There was a time, years ago, when my mother REALLY got into Rurouni Kenshin (I believe it was partially due to how romanticized it was) and ended up watching the entire series.

Ereek

She has always been surprisingly supportive of my gaming and has even gotten into it a bit herself, with the DS. From what I see, she really has a good time with games that have a sense of humor and dislike games that take themselves too seriously. Using the MGS example, she loved how you could "splat" when rolling up and down the stairs in the Communication Tower.

I also think that's why a lot of the light-hearted games remain popular, like Mario. Even "serious" games like GTA or GoW are overall comical in how extreme they are and they're hard to take seriously. On that note, years ago when GoW first came out, we were playing around, switching back and forth, when we came to the puzzle, the one I feel is the high point of the game, where you have to throw the caged man into the trap to continue. She remembers that to this day, even though we didn't play together for more than a few hours.

As for anime, she really liked Dragonball Z - weird, I know -, Tenchi Muyo!, and Fushigii Yuugi. I should probably introduce her to Kenshin, I think she'd like it. I haven't watched anime in quite some time, so I don't know how good many of the newer ones are.

All I have to say to the developers trying to win over younger girls: Don't underestimate the power of an attractive protagonist or antagonist. Japan does this right; Sephiroth, and the newer Genesis, has remained popular with many girls 10+ years later for a reason.

Vanilla

I actually was a pretty stubborn RPG-only girl gamer until about a year ago. Since then, I've really branched out into fighters and other games like Resident Evil 5.

I don't deny that there's a kind of visual appeal that RPGs have, but I personally think it might also have to do with how exposed to hardcore gamers girls who start out playing RPGs are. I generally play games on my own, and RPGs have that level of submersion that makes it bearable to spend 60+ hours just sitting there by myself when I've got the time. I didn't start playing RE5 until my friend dragged me to his house and forced me to start (shakily) shooting at las plagas.

It might just be me spouting unfounded bullcrap, but I typically never see "hardcore" gamer girls around me--and the ones I do are usually gaming with a group of hardcore gaming GUYS. They're drawn to each other by mutual interest.

Following that vein, it's probably not a smart idea to try to cater to a certain gender. Devs should continue to target groups of people based on interest--ultimately, they'll end up garnering fans of both genders regardless. There are guys out there who appreciate Final Fantasy just as much as any girl, so that should be indication enough that devs shouldn't be focusing on gender appeal too much.

matty

Hmm... it isn't so much of games being made for certain people or genders, but how they present it. I remember a while back seeing a picture of a GameStop store and they had a small campaign called "Games 4 Girls", then I saw Cooking Mama, Bratz, and the like. Firstly, I love Mama(!), but then I thought "yeah, maybe girls and women are the majority that drive these games, but you're kind of selling everyone short by being stuck in that mentality if you're pushing a campaign like this'.
There was a poster here a while back that wrote an excellent article about this topic, but sadly it seems to be down (with the whole site), but I commented on her article along the lines of "think of how games presented themselves in the late 80s/early 90s and even then there were the Barbie games and such. They tried, honestly, but I'm not sure if it worked then, either". I really wish that site didn't go down, we had some good points, but I guess that's the idea.

Then again, it was Kojima's idea appeal to a greater female audience by adding Raiden to the MGS series. I'm not sure how well that worked. eh, give and take.

Vanilla

Fair point, but I guess I'm just looking at it from a far more gender-neutral position because I'm a gamer who is pretty much open to all sorts of games. I have to admit MGS appealed to me enough without Raiden, but I'll also concede that he also made it so much better for me.

Jirin

First, I want to quickly mention that incorporation of RPG elements into other genres makes me like them *less*. The challenge of a platform game, for instance, is severely diminished if you can just level your way out of any trouble. Plus it's annoying when they balance a game expecting you to constantly use healing items the way you do in RPG.

Now, to the main question. First, I think most RPG plots are made with a teenage male audience in mind. The main character is always a teenage male who is crushed on by various scantily clad, unrealistically proportioned females, who generally have demure personalities. If you want to make an RPG plot that appeals more to females, have a teenage female main character crushed on by chivalrous, unshirted, big chested men. Cater a little more to female sexual fantasies and not just male ones.

Second, I think there are different gamer personalities. Gamer personalities that RPGs tend to cater to are much more common among males. Most RPGs are one player games and don't have strong multiplayer modes, and most of them are designed so the 'perfectionist' player has a lot to do. Western RPGs also have online modes geared toward letting people beat each other up and prove who's better.

The gaming personality more common among women is the social gamer, who don't care about beating everyone else, and want atmosphere and character interaction. To get women more into RPGs, I'd say to have stronger multiplayer modes and more of a social aspect to the plot.

The girl gamers I know really like Persona and Tales.

Ereek

. If you want to make an RPG plot that appeals more to females, have a teenage female main character crushed on by chivalrous, unshirted, big chested men. Cater a little more to female sexual fantasies and not just male ones.

Or make it with a strong, non-sexualized female character. Aya Brea is one of the best example of this and I remember being extremely happy to play as her. While some of her concept art is sexualized, moreso in Parasite Eve 2, she's treated as an adult in-game and isn't "too stubborn to work with others," a trait that many of the "strong females" have.

Joanna_T

not even. I would just be happy to be given the choice of gender, and let the protagonist be silent so I can mold her to my liking. I'm very picky with personality, guy or girl. Never did like those over the top melodramatic leads, or brooding young pretty boys. Etrian Odyssey is the example. I can choose from 4 portraits for each gender and class, then I can customize even further, and none of the characters talk.

Joanna_T

I don't know. I tried FPS and I still don't like them. I play games mainly to relax and FPS are too intense for such purposes. I do play platformers, but they aren't necessarily intense (you can pause and think of a strategy of finishing the level or boss). So I guess if you want to appeal to the relaxed kind of gamer, create a more relaxing atmosphere....haha yeah I know this is impossible for some genres. I guess it boils down to what you want from your entertainment. I want relaxation and immersion so RPGs, Sims, Strategy games, & puzzle games are perfect for me. If you want excitement, then more reflex oriented games like FPS and survival horror games would appeal.

Pichi

I just play whatever appeals to me. Doesn't matter who its targeted towards. Helps to know what one is interested in and just try it out.

matty

Is it me or is there an enormous presence of women when it comes to survival/horror games?
That's really cool, but tell me if I'm exaggerating if I say the gender audience is evenly split on some series like Silent Hill, possibly even more female fans on certain series like Rule of Rose and Clock Tower.
I've noticed this for a long while, especially on fan based sites/communities, but was wondering if anyone else saw that as well in this particular genre.

Ishaan

It's really hard to say what the split is like, but it would be awesome to run some kind of poll to see what the SE audience thinks sometime down the line. Like Laura said, Resident Evil 4 in particular might be popular amongst the female audience because of the way Leon is designed.

Another thing to keep in mind -- and this is a relatively small niche -- are the cosplayers. Sometimes, that can help attract the attention of people that wouldn't normally pay attention to a certain game otherwise.

matty

You got a point there! I remember a lot cosplayers of Heather from Silent Hill 3 over the years. She really struck a chord with fans.

Interestingly enough, it was the women in Team Silent that helped what made her appealing (for clothes, at least).

MelodyKitn

Don't forget Fatal Frame!

Come to think of it.. at a fansite for FF I used to visit, there were a lot of female players who were definitely into it and similar vein of games. Perhaps it's the not-so-helpless female leads, the customization, or the atmosphere... or maybe they just liked scaring the bejeezus out of themselves like I did.