This Week In Sales: Hatsune Miku’s Latest Performance Is A Tad Concerning

By Ishaan . April 2, 2014 . 12:29pm

Period: The week of March 24th – March 30th (2014)

Top-seller: Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd (PSV) – 98,628

Nintendo 3DS sales: 12,508 | Total sales: 9,448,852

Nintendo 3DS XL sales: 52,124 | Total sales: 5,905,214

PlayStation Vita sales: 39,752 | Total sales: 2,652,595

Vita TV sales: 2,115 | 102,670

Wii U sales: 13,026 | Total sales: 1,689,734

PlayStation 4 sales: 23,327 | 493,338

<< Last week’s software sales chart

<< How to read and understand sales

 

Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd made its debut in Japan last week on PS Vita and PlayStation 3. The game sold 98,628 copies on Vita and another 59,965 copies on PS3, for a combined total of 158,593 copies sold at launch.

 

At first glance, one would say that’s pretty good. That’s around the same figure that Hatsune Miku: Project Diva f sold at launch on PS Vita alone (159,592 copies) back in 2012. However, Sega released a PlayStation 3 version of Project Diva f just a few months later, and that version of the game sold another 110,229 copies right off the bat.

 

By April 2013, Sega announced that total shipments of Hatsune Miku: Project Diva f were at nearly 400,000 copies. Whether or not Project Diva F 2nd will top that remains to be seen, but at this rate, it looks unlikely, given that both PS3 and Vita versions of the game have individually sold less than their predecessors.

 

As for why Sega attempted a multiplatform release for the game this time around… this is pure speculation on my part, but back in 2012, a member of the Project Diva f development team shared that they had spent “too much” on the game’s development costs. Perhaps Sega hoped that releasing this new game on two platforms at once would result in significantly higher sales early on.

 

After all, in the case of the original Project Diva series on PSP, launch week sales went as far up as 240,000 by the time Project Diva 2nd released. However, the Diva F series doesn’t appear to be showing the same kind of growth.

 

The top-20 software sales chart for last week is as follows:

 

Lw Tw Title Weekly Sales Total Sales Sys. Publisher
New 01. Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd 98,628 New PSV Sega
01. 02. Mario Party: Island Tour 78,098 210,767 3DS Nintendo
New 03. Hatsune Miku: Project Diva F 2nd 59,965 New PS3 Sega
08. 04. Yo-kai Watch 48,345 662,724 3DS Level 5
02. 05. Samurai Warriors 4 46,490 166,942 PS3 Tecmo Koei
03. 06. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes 38,617 158,232 PS3 Konami
New 07. New LovePlus+ 31,258 New 3DS Konami
02. 08. J-Stars Victory Vs. 25,300 143,540 PS3 Namco Bandai
05. 09. J-Stars Victory Vs. 24,825 122,646 PSV Namco Bandai
New 10. Hakuoki SSL: Sweet School Life 21,640 New PSV Idea Factory
09. 11. Samurai Warriors 4 19,596 59,193 PSV Tecmo Koei
New 12. Winning Post 8 19,156 New PS3 Konami
10. 13. Dark Souls II 17,771 310,253 PS3 From Software
07. 14. Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 16,897 80,795 PS3 Konami
New 15. Pro Baseball Spirits 2014 14,877 42,700 PSP Konami
17. 16. Kirby Triple Deluxe 14,564 530,459 3DS Nintendo
18. 17. Fossil Fighters: Infinite Gear 12,966 120,379 3DS Nintendo
06. 18. Metal Gear Solid V: Ground Zeroes 12,374 104,277 PS4 Konami
New 19. Winning Post 8 12,120 New PSV Konami
New 20. Atelier Ayesha Plus 11,663 New PSV Gust

 

Sales data acquired from 4Gamer and Media Create.



  • LM009

    well considering half of songs are remakes, i’d say they did pretty well

    • rurifan

      I don’t like the style of the Project Diva F 2nd songs in general. Was wondering if they deliberately made it more like the PSP games because those sold better.

      • Roflcakes

        I agree with your first sentence, the song list in F 2nd felt a little boring compared to F. It still had good songs though.

  • Wesley Kenneth Houpt Mattingly

    Well hopefully sales will pick up and the West will get the 2nd game!

    • InfinityAge11

      Western release was already confirmed.

    • AkuLord3

      Sega doesn’t care if the game does well in one place to bring it in another (as show from many games). That’s not how it works to them but the first one did well enough for Sega to give us the 2nd.

  • mojack411

    Honestly, this is kind of to be expected at this point for the Diva series. They’re simply rhythm games and pretty ok ones at that. It’s hard to evolve rhythm games in meaningful ways. I bought Project Diva F as part of my fanboy response and although I enjoyed it, I can’t see myself buying more of the same in the second one. I feel like the Diva crowd that originally got the games for gameplay are starting to die off and what remains are the Vocaloid fans that buy it on principle. This coming from the guy with the Miku avatar :P

    • Micrll

      Agree on all points except perhaps the rhythm game evolution. Hard to evolve sure, but it looks like the upcoming IA/VT Colorful has managed to do it based on what I have seen in the released trailer.

      • BlueTree

        I don’t know, I think the point still stands on evolving a rhythm game, but only because once you create a game, you make certain expectations. So perhaps it’s more helpful, as you’re possibly suggesting, to say that while you can take a genre and still make progressions, I think one could argue that it’s conversely difficult to carry on with a brand once you establish expectations and those expectations can carry something to a sort of conclusion if you make any sort of change that upsets such a potentially wide userbase.

        If you make the game too technical, you might lose some players, if you keep it the same, you face the same problem. It’s a hard way to go without being able to completely wipe the slate, and in the case of wanting to get a return on using too much budget on assets in development… well, here we are.

        • Izzeltrioum

          Evolving the rhythm genre (Therarhythm can stay away from this for everyone’s sake):

          -Extract Eternal Sonata’s plot context
          -Extract Mother 3′s rhythmic battle system
          -Extract Tales of the World: Narikiri Dungeon 3′s Don (Taiko no Tatsujin) gameplay mechanics during battle.
          -Extract Tales of Xillia/2′s Rowen’s playstyle
          -Add crack

          -Falcom JDK OST

          Voilà! Rhythm ARPG of some sort.

      • mojack411

        Right, I agree with that but I was going more for what BlueTree said. For the Project DIVA games themselves, it’s really difficult to change the formula in any way without straying away from the established formula. IA/VT is a completely different game which is why it was able to use completely different mechanics. SEGA is going to be losing customers either way, unfortunately. They’re just stuck between a rock and a hard place in this case.

        • Kayseur

          They actually could implement more game modes. You know, like Osu! on PC which adds more and more through the time. Of course it’d cost money, but since DJ Max is no more (I think they “disbanded”?) they could have a new mode with regular notes falling down, touch mode, stuff like that, to fill in the role.

          It sure wouldn’t be a big “evolution” in the sense that it’s already been done a countless number of times before, but it would still be new for the franchise.

    • DarkLight

      But there are still alot potential fans over here in the US though.I only got into the games since F,played the others before(Project diva/2nd/extend) but I don’t see myself stopping from continuing to buy these games(I think I have alot more tolerance for repetitiveness in games than other people do) though,that said I am a vocaloid fan so I not sure how this is to someone who just enjoys the games.

    • Shippoyasha

      I think we are focusing a little too much on the Vocaloid franchise and not the fact that the bottom is falling out on the console buying base in Japan bigtime. For some reason, it just isn’t vogue to buy major home console releases in Japan it seems. It’s not just Vocaloid that’s suffering, but many surefire big hitters are seeing some major dropoffs. Compared to some of those, this game’s release is doing fairly well.

      As for the game itself, maybe they should allow for song editing and online sharing. Online sharing is important with extremely complex editing systems like in this series of games.

      • Fox

        Isn’t that explained by the rise in popularirity of digital distribution? Which isn’t factored in to sales tallies like these.

    • wyrdwad

      I dunno, if there were all new songs in it, I’d be pretty psyched. But since it’s 90% recycled songs from the PSP games — all three of which I own and have played for dozens of hours apiece — I’m not particularly hyped for this game. I still bought it, and will still play it, but I’m nowhere near as excited to get my hands on it as I was the original f on Vita, if only because original f was a completely new experience featuring a huge list of songs I’ve never played before.

      I think if this game featured all-new songs like original f did, it would’ve easily broken 200,000 in its first week, at the very least.

  • Anthony L.

    If there’s a physical release, I’ll get it. It’s 2.7 GB and I’m not buying another overpriced Sony memory card.

    • nonscpo

      Yup great game but is it really worth taking up all that space in the memory card…nope, ill take my physical copy anyday over digital.

    • Federico

      Well on siliconeras article about it coming to the west it said it would be sold on retail so we’ll see.

    • Kayseur

      There’s one.

      “I’m pleased to confirm one of those things right now: We will be releasing a Packaged version of the game for both the Playstation 3 and the PS VITA!”

      http://blogs.sega.com/2014/03/25/hatsune-miku-project-diva-f-2nd-announced-for-western-release/

  • Kayseur

    The fact that they released this one on both console at the same time might be precisely why it didn’t sell that well. Having them released at different dates can keep up the hype, or remind the user of the other hardware that it exists if they didn’t buy it yet. And people are more likely to double-dip.

    I really think they shouldn’t have done that. Especially since they saw what happened with the first f.
    However maybe digital sales were higher this time. Because both version contained a code to get the other version for a discounted price (around 2k of yen), but even then it musn’t be that high.

    Anyhow it definitly is slightly concerning for the future of the series. I hope it can keep it up though. Because while most of the songs were rehashing of old ones, at least that should mean this F 2nd didn’t cost them as much as the first F (well obviously they already had the engine this time anyway), so even then it’s not too bad. (Famitsu reports their stock for both version is at 60~80%. Could’ve been worse.)

    • darke

      “Because both version contained a code to get the other version for a discounted price (around 2k of yen), but even then it musn’t be that high.”

      This really needs to happen for any game that’s not cross-buy. There’s way too many ps3+vita games I’ve seen coming out recently that I’ve put off buying until a sale on either platform because I can’t be bothered working out which platform I’m spending my time more on at the moment. I figure I’ll just wait for a sale and get it on sale on the platform it’s on.

  • AuraGuyChris

    Seems everyone and their grandma has Pokemon X or Y or both, so now it has been dethroned.

  • JMaster3000

    They shouldn’t make it multiplat.

    Make it handheld only cause it was like that and get Dingo back, Crypton doesn’t know how to make the game hard.

    (I’ve just seen video by the way) Extreme of the remade songs is WAY easier and the songs in Project Diva f were easy too on Extreme, both those titles made Crypton while the old one’s, in which u can see the difficulty differences, Project Diva 2nd and Extend, were made by Dingo.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L-NIYl2PWRg

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V-yY5M9v86Q

    (Difference on 1 song, HUGE!)

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      They shouldn’t make it multiplat.

      The reason it’s multiplat is precisely because development costs are higher now.

    • Yuzuki Yukari

      Crypton didn’t develop anything, they’re not even a game company. They’re just the company that owns Miku & the rest of the gang.

      I haven’t played F 2nd yet so I can’t say anything for that one but I didn’t really find F’s Extreme songs any easier than the PSP ones? Sure, none of them were as hard as stuff like Gekishou (whose difficulty I honestly always thought as ridiculous) but I found them challenging enough at least. The only difference I see between the new guys and Dingo is the much nicer PVs the F series have.

      • JMaster3000

        What i see is that the difficult is going from harder to easier through the franchise, haven’t seen a hard song in F and F2nd looks same.

        And i wanna correct myself. I guess Sega is developing the game now even thou wiki says that the devs are Sega and Crypton, that might be false.

        And Dingo only made Diva for PSP, they didn’t have free space like Sega has with F.

        iirc Dingo is developing with Atlus Persona 4 Rhythm game, i guess that one will show how they work on better hardware.

    • Brandonmkii

      More notes doesn’t equal hard. I’ll take varying patterns over 300 of the same notes any day,

      • JMaster3000

        Yes, but same notes over again isn’t hard.

        Example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vM8jcqVZloc

        Cross and Circles only, take any song on Extreme difficulty in old Diva games and ur gonna see the huge difference.

    • Safros9

      I thought the general consensus (Or at least from what I’ve seen) is that F2nd is the most difficult game in the series. This doesn’t include the arcade games.

      The only song that I can think of that was made easier would be Hatsune Miku no Gekishou, everything else feels more difficult (Not just because of touch notes either).

      I never had any trouble in 2nd or Extend, and f was relatively easy, but from my experience with the series, I feel that F2nd is definitely the hardest PD game on console/handhelds.

      • JMaster3000

        We’ll see once its released here but from the things i got from the net it seems its not so hard.

        • Safros9

          I didn’t say it was all that hard, I just said it was the hardest in the series. The series itself isn’t known for being difficult, and the PSP ones were definitely relatively easy rhythm games, excluding Hatsune Miku no Gekishou of course, but that isn’t really so much a difficult song as it is a mash fest.

          Besides, if you find that the difficulty isn’t high enough, you are now able to use multiple challenge items at once.

        • Tuna-Egg

          I’ve only played PDf from the previous games, but PDF2nd *IS* harder than the previous game. NORMAL mode uses only 2 buttons plus star notes, but note density is comparable to HARD. It’s not a problem for me because I’m used to playing on EXTREME, but if I started playing Project Diva from PDF2nd, I might have given up early. Not to mention the link Star Notes which are just crazy and make almost no sense. I also find many note placements were intentionally made to be much trickier than the previous game.

          Many reviewers on Amazon Japan are actually complaining about the increased difficulty.

  • Micrll

    While not a great thing, I don’t find this too concerning. The second game is clearly reusing all of the underlying engine stuff developed from the first game so they likely save a lot of development costs in that regard.

    In other news it’s nice to see that will still grossly under-preforming, the Vita has a few games in that top 20 sales list. Though wow only 11k for the Atelier Ayesha Plus, I know it’s a port but that is pretty small for it’s first week out.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      While not a great thing, I don’t find this too concerning. The second game is clearly reusing all of the underlying engine stuff developed from the first game so they likely save a lot of development costs in that regard

      While this is true, and the development costs of Diva F 2nd are likely lower than the first game’s due to asset re-use, the same held true for the original series on PSP. Subsequent games after Diva 1 were probably cheaper to develop.

      The concern is that more money is being spent overall on these titles, and Sega is selling fewer copies of them.

  • MasterScrub

    The decline in sales could have something to do with lack of imports. They announced F2nd for the west before it came out in Japan, IIRC, and even then we got F and it did well, so people probably assumed (correctly) that F2nd would also get localized, and saw no need to import it.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Imports have minimum impact on sales in Japan. There’s no way that 90,000 people imported the first Diva F across PS3 and Vita. The number of imports was likely a tiny, tiny fraction of that figure.

  • Josh Hanes

    Damn those Vita TV sales. It’s never going to come to the west.

    • Pyrotek85

      It’s starting to worry me too lol, it looks like it would be handy for me since I mostly play it at home.

      • darke

        I don’t know why they didn’t release it first in the west in the first place; we seem to be much more physical console gamers then portable, and Japan is the reverse.

  • Dave_O_Segundo

    Did new love plus+ sold similarly to it’s predecessors?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Nope, NLP+ isn’t doing very well at all, by the look of things. That’s going to be a separate post, but I need a little more data before I can comment on NLP+ sales.

      • Dave_O_Segundo

        Just searched for the sales of the original New Love plus: 104,969. Ouch.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          Yeah, they really screwed the pooch with the first New Love Plus. It was a buggy mess that took months to get patched and left a lot of fans feeling unhappy.

          • British_Otaku

            So it is something like the DMC2 effect, a franchise with a lot of support loses it due to a weak installment and even something that raises standards (DMC3) can’t reach those high numbers.

            I’d like to think that this game will have legs as it wasn’t a buggy mess, but we’ll see. It almost definitely isn’t outselling the first NLP if it got 100K first week.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Yeah, that’s a good comparison to make! One extremely weak entry is often enough to turn a bunch of people off, and it takes a long time to build that faith up again.

            That said, I don’t think Konami are helping their case with New Love Plus+ either. It’s high time they added a new girl to the list, but they’ve stubbornly avoided doing so.

            You can only date the same three chicks so many times, you know?

          • Xerain

            I was under the impression eh core demographic for Love Plus would be above cheating with other digital girls!

  • malek86

    “The game sold 98,628 copies on Vita and another 59,965 copies on PS3, for a combined total of 176,726 copies sold at launch.”

    Isn’t the total supposed to be 158,593?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Doh, fixed!

      • malek86

        That actually makes it lower than (or well, pretty much on par with) PDF.

        I guess the fanbase has remained the same, just this time it was distributed between PS3 and PSV. While for the first game, the late port had some people rebuying it.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          Yeah, I just changed that line to reflect that, too. I don’t know how I got that 176k figure.

          • malek86

            On a side note, do we know what caused the general spike in sales for all the consoles (except PS4, predictably)? Was it some kind of holiday week?

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            I wondered that myself! I e-mailed our contact Media Create to find out if they can share any insight on that front.

          • http://www.santashi.com/ Santashi

            That would be everyone going on a spending spree before consumption tax rose to 8% on 1st April.

          • http://www.santashi.com/ Santashi

            That would be everyone going on a spending spree before consumption tax rose to 8% on 1st April.

            (Sorry, accidentally replied to the wrong person!)

          • Landale

            Looks like you added Mario Party to the Vita version, instead of the PS3 version. That would come out to 176726.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            The mystery is solved! (Yeah, I’m an idiot.)

  • Fronkhead

    I wonder what the general consensus about the game is in Japan and whether it’ll be one factor affecting sales as well (everyone else here has already mentioned the other possible factors).

    Before I mention how I’ve found it (I bought it off the PS Store the moment it was released in Japan), the average user score on Amazon Japan (as much as I dislike using user scores as a reflection of an analysis as to a game’s quality, they work pretty well here) sits at 3.5 stars out of 5, and a lot of reviews from people who’ve played games from Diva Arcade up to Mirai 2 complain about many elements in the game, which I also found problems with (more below): http://www.amazon.co.jp/product-reviews/B00GXYECLU/ref=cm_cr_pr_hist_3?ie=UTF8&filterBy=addThreeStar&showViewpoints=0&sortBy=bySubmissionDateDescending

    They went too far with the touch/scratch notes this time. It’s still a solid rhythm game, but there’s this new type of scratch note which revolves around an on-rails marker that passes over stars (which you then swipe on the screen to pass), and this betrays the rest of the game’s solid mechanics.

    Why? Because the movement of the on-rails marker often feels arbitrary and changes depending on when the next note is, if you don’t know the song 100% you’ll likely mess up (as I have done so many times) and even when you do know the song there’s a distinct disconnect between music and visuals when you ‘ace’ these sections. The newly added dual swipe scratch notes combined with the other two also add a bit more confusion.

    Arguably scratch notes were always going to be a point of contention anyway, unlike more solid touch controls for the genre (like Ouendan, which had low latency taps match markers) a swipe was never going to sit well with prompts that require an instant input, but at least the older scratch markers were readable in advance like reading music off a score, and consistent with the other notes.

    I didn’t actually know about the development costs issue until now, perhaps that’s why it feels a like a bit like a (gasp!) workmanlike sequel — outside of the new songs and music even the old menus have by and large been reused, and nothing’s been done to improve how the touch controls work outside of scratch markers.

    • xAtKx

      You’re able to map the scratch notes to the sticks you know. I’ve found that helps quite a bit.

      • darke

        Oooh… If that’s possible with the first one, it might make me actually get around to purchasing it, rather then just fiddling with the demo a bit. The screen-scratch really irritates my piano-musical sensibilities. :P

        • xAtKx

          Nope only in the sequel.

          • darke

            Annoying. Oh well, might get the sequel then rather then the original then. The ‘scratching’ was the only part that I didn’t particularly like since it kept knocking me out of the ‘zone’, everything else seemed fine.

  • Monterossa

    Finally the Vita turned into a success.

    • ecoutercavalier

      When did it break even?

  • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

    I’m starting to question Sega’s design choices with the Hatsune Miku games, in light of how this whole series of events has played out. Over the past two years, we’ve seen Sega do two things with their Miku titles:

    1. Transition Project Diva from PSP to PS3/Vita

    2. Create the Project Mirai series for 3DS

    There are two problems here, so let’s address them separately. First up: Project Diva. The Diva games did well on PSP for what they were. Remarkably well, in fact. The series saw steady growth from game to game, and by the time Project Diva 2nd was released, it was debuting at 240,000 in launch week.

    Part of the reason for this is that, by the time Diva 2nd was released, the PSP was much more of a mainstream device than the Vita is now. Millions of people owned PSPs in Japan by then, and the demographic encompassed both the PSP’s otaku crowd as well as the more mainstream gamer brought in by games like Monster Hunter. This mainstream demographic barely exists on Vita.

    One could argue that there’s a more mainstream audience on PS3, but realistically speaking, rhythm games are better suited to portable devices, so ideally, you want your lead platform to be a portable. So there’s problem #1, which is that Diva F has just lost access to a large chunk of its potential audience.

    Problem #2 is how Project Mirai has been handled. The reason Project Diva is a success is in part due to its sharing features. The Edit Mode stuff is extremely customizable and being able to create and share videos with other people is one of the appeals of the series. Unfortunately, Project Mirai isn’t nearly as much of a social/sharing game as Project Diva is.

    And therein lies the issue—Mirai is on the most social/mainstream platform in the country, and it doesn’t take advantage of that in any way whatsoever, leading to lower sales than it could potentially achieve. Meanwhile, Diva F is on a far more niche platform, costs far more money to develop, and is on a downward trend itself.

    I think it would be interesting to see what would happen if Sega tried to put a Diva game on the 3DS. There’s an argument to be made that Project Diva sells to an audience that is attracted to high-quality visuals, and that it wouldn’t be as appealing on the 3DS, but at the same time, there’s also an argument to be made for the game’s social/sharing features, and how 3DS is the best platform in Japan for those kinds of things at the moment. We’ve seen evidence of this time and again with a number of NDS/3DS games.

    Unfortunately, I don’t expect Sega would be comfortable experimenting like that. A lot of the time, developers in general stick to what they’re comfortable with, even if it clearly isn’t working as well as it should be.

    • Kayseur

      I would add another thing to that: The Vocaloid universe is always evolving. How many new Vocaloids have appeared on the market these past few years, or better yet, that past year? A lot.
      Yet how many new ones have we saw on the Diva franchise? None.

      I actually think that while only having the Crypton Vocaloids is a sure way to catter to the core audience, if they actually want to reach again to the mass (or, Vocaloid fans who aren’t playing yet), they really should get something fresh.
      True thing the Vita base is small, but since they were one big-seller on PSP, they actually might have the potential to become kind of a system-seller (at least, enough for them to get PSP’s numbers again). But in-between, since Vocaloid has evolved, they probably have to as well.

      I don’t know how I feel about putting a Diva on the 3DS though, since they do have the Mirai that could be a success on its own, they should just improve that franchise and attack on both front instead of ripping one side of its stuff. And in that regard, Mirai has already improved a bit more than Diva adding Gumi and voice-changer when switching characters for some tracks (another BIG feature they could market, “rediscover your favorites songs with your favorite Vocaloid”.)

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        That is a good point. I do wonder if adding more Vocaloids to the roster would help them reach out to more people. Ideally, you would want the Hatsune Miku games to be representative of the Vocaloid community at that point in time.

        A “snapshot” of what the community is like, almost. The songs that are popular, the artists that are popular, up and coming Vocaloids etc. Of course, that would also cost more money…

        • Landale

          Even if they couldn’t reliably get more than the Crypton Vocaloids, putting less of a focus on Miku might help things feel a bit more interesting. There are a ton of amazing songs for Meiko, Kaito, Rin, Len, and Luka, yet the vast majority of the songs used are Miku’s.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Well, that’s kind of how it works everywhere, isn’t it? Just as an example, look at the X-Men movies. It’s always going to be Hugh Jackman taking centre stage. Not ideal, but yeah…

          • Landale

            Well if they have to focus it, they could always alternate it with each new game. Meiko: Project Diva, Kaito: Project Diva, and so on. 2 or 3 songs for the non title Vocaloid per game, the rest from the title Vocaloid.

      • tubers

        Wonder if adding extra Vocaloids would jack up licensing fees on top of also having to make more models and outfits.

        Maybe not that much but I wish we had a more evidence of the expense.

        The song roster would also have to grow and remove that 30-40 song limit.. more songs and PVs might also be a substantial cost.

        I guess that’s going to be a risk they’d have to take later on if it keeps getting worse.

    • malek86

      Mirai 2 was a lot more social/sharing than the first one though (I haven’t played it, but that’s what you told me once :P) and yet sales didn’t improve.

      I still mantain the problem is the nendoroid look. If they used standard models like Diva, they would probably attract more mainstreams, and not just the fans.

      There’s also another possibility to consider for the whole ordeal, including the Diva games decreasing in sales, and that is, maybe Miku is just not at her peak anymore. Popularity is not so easy to mantain.

      • Landale

        Popularity is even harder to maintain when it’s pushed too hard, hence my suggestion of rotating focus.

        • malek86

          That probably wouldn’t help much. People still care mostly about Miku. A game focused on someone else would cost the same to develop, and sell a lot less.

      • Eder García

        “I still mantain the problem is the nendoroid look. If they used standard models like Diva, they would probably attract more mainstreams, and not just the fans”
        100% agree with this

        • ronin4life

          If that is true as to why sales are so different, that makes me sad…

          Just aside from content(Mirai is a lot better IMO), I think the uncanny valley models of Diva are just hideously creepy. >_>

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        Right, they added it in Mirai 2, but it’s still nowhere near the phenomenon that the Edit Mode in the Project Diva games is. Like I’ve said before, though, I don’t disagree that the Nendoroid thing could be part of it. We/they will never know until they try out a non-Nendoroid-styled game, though.

        There’s also another possibility to consider for the whole ordeal, including the Diva games decreasing in sales, and that is, maybe Miku is just not at her peak anymore. Popularity is not so easy to mantain.

        Yeah, definitely another possible issue.

        • malek86

          Ok, let me expand a bit on my idea, just to explain what I mean.

          One thing that you can generally see with Project Diva, is that it’s still selling to the fans. Looking at Project Diva 2, that’s a plateau which hasn’t been reached again. And why? I remember 3-4 years ago, it was a time when vocaloids were at their highest. Even I, who don’t care about Miku songs, knew some of the most popular titles of that time. They were that ubiquitous.

          That’s changed though. If you ask me today what are some of Miku’s current songs, I wouldn’t know what to answer. The spotlight has got away. While by now she’s a recognizable enough character to keep selling games easily, she’s not a mainstream phenomenon anymore. It’s only normal, it happens to everything and everyone. Especially in the entertainment industry.

          We have some problems though, because Sega is still trying to attract two different audiences: fans and mainstreams. Their constant use of old famous songs is probably because of that, they want even people who aren’t into Miku to have a reason to buy the game. “Hey look, I remember that song!”, kinda like that. Of course, if you keep using the same songs, things will get tired quickly, so we have the first problem.

          The second problem is the look. Sega might be using nendoroid looks to sell the games to non-fans? Except that nendoroids are usually made for fans. It’s true that the Miku nendoroid was one of the first figures to get popular even with non-fans, but again, Miku is not at her peak anymore. So by using that look, I doubt they are attracting as many new people as they think.

          Which brings us straight into the third problem,and that is, the splitting of the community, the reason you mentioned other times on why Monster Hunter won’t go multiplatform. Now, I still mantain MH would be big enough to easily support multiple communities. But Miku? That’s a different matter. Fans aren’t necessarily going to buy both games. Mirai is supposed to be for mainstreams rather than fans, but it makes a number of mistakes, and mainstreams likely don’t care about Miku anymore (or at least, not so much that her name alone would sell a game).

          So in short, they are selling two different products, both of which have some glaring problems in design choices, either for songs or looks or platform choice.

    • tubers

      I thought Mirai 2 alleviated that ?

      ““My Choreo” mode, which allows the player to choreograph their own dances. You can do this either through a simple interface that lets you map up to eight moves to the 3DS face buttons and press them in whatever sequence you like, or through a more sophisticated mode where you can select various dance moves using the 3DS touch screen and line them up, almost like frames of animation, to create your dance routine. These routines can then be shared with others via StreetPass or over the Internet.”

      “..allows you to create your own song lyrics. These, too, can be shared with other Project Mirai 2 players, over both StreetPass as well as over the Internet.”

      http://www.siliconera.com/2013/09/25/hatsune-miku-project-mirai-2-big-deal-holiday/#7DSm2CQhUAzjyhT7.99

      ..or is Diva’s EDIT mode far superior? I don’t think Diva even has lyrical edits.

      Also, DIVA game on 3DS? I think they might as well go all out for a Diva game on the 3DS’ successor.

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        Diva’s Edit Mode still has more customization than Mirai does, yeah. In general, Diva comes off as a much “fancier” game than Mirai. I believe the only real feature that Mirai has over Diva is the ability to have songs sung by different Vocaloids. That’s pretty neat.

        • tubers

          IDK if it’s true but someone told me that Mirai doesn’t have “Extreme” difficulty.. maybe that’s a factor too.

          How gimped is the 3DS Edit mode compared to the VITA?

          The “Lyrics Creation” (or w/e it’s official called) sounds substantial in the sense that it’s can seem like a basic “Vocaloid” program.

          It even seems there’s more efforts into added mechanics with Mirai since it both has touch only gameplay and buttons gameplay (correct me if I am wrong with this info).

          Mechanics and features seem competitive enough, possibly even doing more than PJD.. I think aesthetics is playing a large part here.

          I read someone say that chibis limit the range of emotion and artistic renditions (w/e the heck that means) compared to a more anatomically correct model.. wonder if that has any merit.

          Once the 3DS successor is revealed and Sony not making a regular VITA 2.0, I think PJD can easily jump ship towards Nintendo’s new handheld and the “graphics” will be enough for the supposed handheld Diva market (aka Native Res PJD + slightly better geometry and shadows on the next gen 3DS, non-chibi).

          .. and then move Mirai to iOS/Android.

          I’m not sure if it’d make sense for Sony to make a handheld successor that’s anything less a portable PS4.

          Actually, wonder if SEGA should just move all PJD to iOS/Android and sell per song/per feature, slap in controller support when such is connected.. It’ll look even better on them when the 3DS successor arrives (relatively cheap 3DS 2.0 hardware) assuming Sega puts effort w/ hardware refreshes/

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Aesthetics is definitely part of it. Malek’s been theorizing that the Nendoroid style does more harm than good for years now, and I don’t disagree with him. Just that we’ll never know for certain unless they try something different.

            That said, it is obvious that the Nendoroid style makes Project Mirai feel like less of a “multimedia experience” than Project Diva. Sega have always pushed the Diva games as these really high-end, customization-heavy games where the goal is to replicate Miku concerts in all their glory. Meanwhile, Project Mirai isn’t marketed the same way. It’s marketed as more of a regular rhythm game.

            Also, you’re right in that Project Mirai’s touch mechanics are more advanced than Diva’s. You can play the game entirely using buttons or entirely using touch controls, so that’s kind of neat. I just don’t know if it’s a selling point. Like, I don’t see many people deciding to buy a rhythm game based on whether or not it supports touch controls.

            Actually, wonder if SEGA should just move all PJD to iOS/Android and sell per song/per feature, slap in controller support when such is connected..

            Bit too soon and bit too risky, IMO. There’s clearly a market willing to pay full price for these games and buy DLC on top of that. It probably isn’t in Sega’s best interests to abandon that market… at least, not yet. The smartphone market isn’t at the point where they would be willing to spend enough money on a game like this for the series to sustain itself there.

          • tubers

            Then PJD to 3DS 2.0, flip the bird straight up Sony’s handheld face, and move Mirai to iOS/Android/Windows then.

            Wonder if Sega should still consider a PS4 PJD 3/4 game. Maybe they should just save all up for the 3DS 2.0 and make a robust song roster even with mediocre graphics by that time (content vs presentation).

            Mirai in a restructured pricing to meet that typical market practice for that specific environment.

            Maybe even tweak the models into something between current Mirai models and PJD models or make it an optional DLC.. emphasize on that DLC during marketing (if aesthetics is really a huge deal).

            Like I said, sell em song by song, feature by feature (edits, Mirai Lyric Edit, etc.). Maybe even a “Free” game with a few hits included. There should also be a full package purchase as an option.

            Wonder if Japan will be very lenient w/ a touch only Miku Mirai, let’s say in 3-5 years.

            It seems it’d easily become a good/practical mobile game since it’s popular (Vocaloid Avatars), easy to pick up and/or drop.. and eventually, more readily available than dedicateds combined.

            Anyway, wonder if it’s a budget choice that Mirai doesn’t have Extreme.. they think the cutesy look should be paired by “cutesy” difficulty?

            Mirai: Cutesy and Easy

            .. different demographics? Less skilled players? Children? As to not frustrate them?

            .. or simply a conscious choice to give more artificial existential meaning of current VITA Fs.

            Also, Did iOS/Android Theat bomb? If not then all the more reason for the suggested restructured Mirai.

            AFAIK, mobile FF Theat. is sold something like “part by party” (per song?).

          • darke

            “Then PJD to 3DS 2.0, flip the bird straight up Sony’s handheld face, and move Mirai to iOS/Android/Windows then.”

            Huh? Are you forgetting Sony makes android mobile phones and tablets? And they not only support google’s play store but their own mobile-focused games store? And they probably have a higher markup on these, and turn over of these, then the Vitas? (Seriously, I buy a USD500+ mobile phone every year or two.)

            I would imagine Sony would be more then happy a competitor only exclusive (Mirai) suddenly came onto a platform they supported.

          • tubers

            I was specifically referring to the PlayStation VITA, the current dedicated handheld console of Sony when I said “Sony’s handheld face”.

            Sony doesn’t get any platform royalties if a 3rd party game is brought onto Google Play. Google gets the “royalties”. Sony doesn’t own Google Play.

            Sony’s more of a hardware vendor of Android (Google product).

            This is contrast to putting PJD as a VITA/PS3 title for Sony’s own consoles where Sony gets a royalty fee.

            Sorry if that confused ya. Didn’t mean to make it that way.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Then PJD to 3DS 2.0, flip the bird straight up Sony’s handheld face, and move Mirai to iOS/Android/Windows then.

            That might be a little extreme, since we don’t even know what the next round of portable systems will look like from either Sony or Nintendo.

            Both have some work to do on their next portable designs, given the state of the market. Sony obviously faces more of a challenge here, but it isn’t as though Nintendo’s in the clear either. I mean, 3DS is starting to slow down now that it’s gotten into 15 million homes.

            These kinds of things are always hard to predict. I don’t know if Sega has any insight into either company’s plans for their next portable, but even if they don’t, I would hope they take action now instead of waiting too long.

            Anyway, wonder if it’s a budget choice that Mirai doesn’t have Extreme.. they think the cutesy look should be paired by “cutesy” difficulty?

            That’s actually something that is interesting to consider. When Sega released Project Mirai 1, Media Create said it was selling to a different audience than the Project Diva games. A portion of this audience was “girls in their late teens,” so that’s one thing. Maybe this audience doesn’t appreciate difficulty as much, and that could indeed by why the Extreme mode is being left out.

            Also, Did iOS/Android Theat bomb? If not then all the more reason for the suggested restructured Mirai.

            I doubt Theatrhythm bombed on mobile, but well… that’s Final Fantasy, you know? It’s not as heavily reliant on the otaku market as Hatsune Miku is. That passionate audience is how these games keep finding their way into homes. At the same time, it’s this reliance on the otaku that’s proving to be Miku’s downfall, since they don’t seem to be reaching out to new people.

          • tubers

            Guess you have a good point. The market seems fickle but I just can’t see how a traditional 2nd gen VITA is going to maintain its previous install base.. Maybe partner it w/ Android or iOS (lol) “flavors”.. (thus becoming no longer “traditional”)

            Now if Sony is capable of a Portable PS4 with aggressive pricing and reasonable size then that’s something the whole gaming world would be staring at.. but in 3-4 years where Nintendo’s next handheld will probably come out? I think that’s impossible tech wise or ranging to thousand dollars by the unit.. and the size of 4 Note 8s stacked together lmao.

            IDK.. 3-4 years from now when phones gain more presence and activity in Japan, I feel SEGA’s gonna do much better revenue-wise than 90K units if Mirai’s locked down to a console.. just a gut feeling tho, I don’t really have any data for that.. and there’s still probably the point where F 2′s roster may seem old and “cheap”.. and the simultaneous release.

            Thanks again for entertaining me, Ishaan. :)

            I guess I’ll just end this here.. I think it’s gonna be a bunch of slippery slopes and running around in circles just for PJD if I keep pesterting you xD

            GL with the next articles!

    • sherimae1324

      so you want project diva to be on 3DS rather than….. VITA?
      ok…..

      but i was wondering why most games on 3ds is a bit kiddy like
      well for example some game devs and pubs in japan make games for the 3ds with spin offs with chibis

      like aksyss blazybloo, and atlus’ persona q and also sega’s project mirai… i dunno for me they are cute but doesnt have any appeal
      like what project diva has

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        but i was wondering why most games on 3ds is a bit kiddy like well for example some game devs and pubs in japan make games for the 3ds with spin offs with chibis

        Right, some developers do that. I would assume it’s primarily because those specific franchises began on PlayStation platforms, and now that they’re expanding to another platform, they’re being given a different visual style (and in some cases, a different genre) to set them apart.

        Also, I wouldn’t say most games on 3DS are “kiddy”. If anything, 3DS has a much larger number of games that target the adult market. Monster Hunter 4, SMT4, Devil Survivor, the Layton games, Crimson Shroud, Bravely Default, Harvest Moon etc. Those are all known to sell to people well into their 30s, and are all very different from each other stylistically.

        Character models have little to do with it. Having realistically proportioned character models doesn’t mean your game is aimed at adults. In most cases on Vita, publishers target the anime/otaku market, because those are the two demographics that buy Vita games. (Outside of the hunting game audience that Sony is trying to build up.) And when you’re targeting the anime enthusiast, it’s in your best interest to be as loyal to the original designs as possible.

  • Yan Zhao

    Those are not bad numbers, especially considering its pretty much the same game as the first with just more songs and costumes.

  • tturtlejosh

    Well thats what happens when you just “remake” a bunch of “classic” songs and I’m pretty sure most of the people who bought the game own a psp with PD2ND

  • otakumike

    Japanese market is dead. I said it last week but the Japanese just don’t seem to be buying games anymore, at least not at the level they used to.

    • Suicunesol

      Naw they do. Mobile games.

    • ronin4life

      Could the declining population be having any effect here?

      Edit: Specifically, the aging population result.

      • darke

        Maybe. But you’d expect it to be a gradual decline, not such a dramatic one. :(

  • Izzeltrioum

    All this Project Diva, IA/VT, Uta Kumi 575, etc…

    AND STILL NO TAIKO NO TATSUJIN VITA.

    BAMCOOOOOO.

  • d19xx

    Time for Miku Kart….

  • Juan Manuel M. Suárez

    Project Diva F 3rd with Calne Ca, please~.

  • http://twitter.com/puchixseda puchinri

    Wow! So proud of Youkai Watch! I hope it continues to do well~.

    Also, good for Hakouki. x’D
    I wonder if it’ll drop really fast though?

  • Safros9

    I can’t help but think that part of the reason for Project DIva’s rather low sales is because of all of the returning songs. I was happy for a few of them, but I definitely think Sega overdid it.

    The delay probably didn’t help the hype, along with the two final reveals being rather boring (They’re good, but I doubt anyone was really hoping for either of them.) I mean, I was honestly expecting two new heavy hitters, like something from Mitchie M.

    Well, I am enjoying the game immensely anyway, so I’m definitely content, but I do hope that the next game in the series does more.

    • darke

      That and a sequel is still a sequel; their sales usually seem to be lower unless it’s a CoD-alike.

    • Xerain

      Kagerou Days was my most wanted song. I can link you to the 3~5 posts I made on this forum pretty much from teh tie the game was announced begging for it. (Though please don’t make me, that woudl be a pain in the butt and I really don’t want to do it.)

  • Earthjolly

    Rise vita RIIIIISE

    • Shady Shariest

      “Rise from your grave”

      • darke

        “Destroy him my robots!” … oops, wrong era. >.>

        (Though honestly the C64′s sound chip doing speech synthesis was just as bad as the Genesis’.)

    • Xerain

      I can’t wait for Persona: Dancing all Night. God I hope there’s a Rise Vita. Not that I could afford it. Also no OLED screen on it if there was.

  • Xerain

    Is this including digital sales? The game comes with a code to get the alternate version digitally at a discount.

    That being said, there’s no way a multiplatform release wouldn’t hurt sales. With Diva f I bought the Vita release, and by the time the 6 or so month wait was over, I couldn’t wait to get my hands on the PS3 version. More importantly, I could also justify and afford to buy the PS3 version, as it was 6 months later.

    The market for these games is pretty consistent. It’s always the same people buying them. Because of the simultaneous multiplatorm release, you have less double dipping. Even if I had enough money to buy both at launch, given how many games are coming out this quarter….. why would I buy two of the same game? Maybe I’ll buy the other 6 months from now.

  • bL4Ck

    Too many songs from older games, there are so many vocaloid songs out there that they could virtually make a completely new game every release, instead they keep on adding the same old 2008 era songs. Vocaloids have improved a lot during the years, and its a shame that they still cling to those old glories to push sales.

  • Splinter

    It’s not unusual to see sequels having lower performance. I believe SEGA had a nice profit considering that many content was recycled (like 3D models and scripts), but in the end it’s always better to see higher sale numbers to encourage the development of further games in the series.

  • クラシカリ

    I don’t get how it is worrisome, considering how many reasons went against f 2nd:

    -As already mentioned, the multiplateform released hurt way more than people might think. Since both games are released the same period (which is quite busy, along with the new tax applied in Japan starting April 1st), not everyone can afford buying both versions day one, whereas the first F game on PS3 was released months afterwards.
    Also, for those who are only interested in the PS3 version but still are too impatient, it is possible they bought the vita version anyway. Now that both versions are available at the same time, those who only want the PS3 versions won’t have the same urge in buying the vita ver.

    -First project diva f on PS3 had another incentive for purchase: not only it was months after the vita ver, but it also had extra content compared to the vita version. And for those who still had the vita version, the PS3 version included a code that gives a discount on the DLC for the vita.

    -The issue with the songs is a bit contrasted I think. While I see people saying the problem is that half the playlist is a rehash, it is a bit the opposte how I saw it.
    Project diva F 1 included popular songs that weren’t in any game (most notably Tell your World and Black Rock Shooter), whereas F 2nd doesn’t really have any outstanding tracks at all. In fact, the new tracks are a bit overshadowed by the returning classics.

    In that regard, Sega should have put these tracks as purchasable DLC like they did for the PSP versions, and included at least 30 new tracks instead of 20.

    -I will disagree with Isshan regarding the matter that western players don’t matter. They actually do: the PS3 physical release of PDF1 were quite noticeable: 16K. Now, you might think it is a bit ridiculous considering how big the US are, but that amounts the fact it is a very niche game, that only vocaloid / anime-manga fans will bother buying it, and that it doesn’t include digital copies (which completely ignore how many copies were sold in Europe, since we didn’t have any physical copy for either PS3 or Vita versions).
    It is fairly safe to assume that around 10k were imported considering there wasn’t any evidence a localization would occur. Missing these 10K on PDF2 sales figure is huge.
    And it is very obvious a lot of people canceled their pre-order once they leanred about PDF2 coming this fall: less troubles with additional expenses, and easier way to handle some tricky menu like edit play.

    -PDF2nd has likely way better digital sales this time around, because of the code that reduce by 25% the price tag of the other version you haven’t. For instance, the digital version of the vita game costs 6789 yen, but with the PS3 version, the price becomes 5000 yen.

    -Note that project diva series also perform well on the long run. They don’t exactly drop to 3 digits sales after the initial months.

    So really, we need more data about the digital sales figure, but I wouldn’t really worry about that at all.

  • Hanabi91

    I love the vocaloid series as it is, but I think it is time they should integrate a career mode, a lot like the IdolM@ster series where you are able to compete against other singers/vocaloids. A story would be fantastic. You can make choices that change the progression and build a deep bond with your vocaloid. Give us a custom mode, where you can create your own vocaloid, add a microphone attachment where you can sync your voice mic and use that to add your own voice to it. These are just some random abstract ideas I have for the series. A 2P battle mode like in DDR revolution! Oh I can keep going on~

  • tarbis

    Maybe one of the factors is that they announced a western release before the launch which many held back the purchase (me included)

  • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

    It isn’t port-begging. We’re making suggestions for how to help the series get back on course when it’s clearly on a downward trend and costs more money to develop than it did before. Learn to tell the difference between sensible analysis and port-begging.

    (Also, I don’t recall anyone unbanning you after the last time you were banned following multiple warnings. Why are you back?)

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