Look, Castlevania For 3DS Is Not Metroidvania, It’s An "Action Combat" Game

By Spencer . June 8, 2012 . 6:00pm

cast2 I met up with Dave Cox, Head of Product Planning and Development at Konami, to talk about Castlevania: Lords of Shadow – Mirror of Fate. The first thing I asked Cox, who helped Konami bring Castlevania: Symphony of the Night overseas, is why they wanted to make a "Metroidvania" game.

 

"Although, this game has a map to explore it is not really a Metroidvania. It is very much an action combat game based on the Lords of Shadow universe. One of the things people really liked about Castlevania: Lords of Shadow was the combat aspect of it. Mixing up strategies, using light and shadow magic, sub weapons, and things like that. So, we beefed that up," Cox replied. "Our audience was telling us they wanted a bigger exploration element to the game, so we added a more traditional exploration side."

 

"I think the inspiration really comes from [Castlevania III:] Dracula’s Curse and not Metroidvania. It’s more about multi-branching pathways, the ability to go back and explore other area of the castle as other characters. It’s definitely not Metroidvania," Cox emphasized.

 

cast3

 

Each of the Belmonts will have different abilities, which will let them access different parts of the castle. Trevor Belmont, for example, can double jump and Cox revealed to Siliconera Alucard can turn into mist.

 

We’ll have more Castlevania discussion with Cox and Enric Alvarez, the Studio Head at MercurySteam, on Siliconera soon.


Read more stories about & on Siliconera.

  • ragnarok989

    Way to make the game less awesome to me and more meh…They should’ve just shut up and took my money, now I feel the need to wait for more info before I buy it.

    • andref

       Well at least you are being a smart shopper

  • Exkaiser

    Hopefully this’ll mean some tighter level design than the usual Metroidvania fare.

    Castlevania III is a good base to go off. That’s one tight game.

  • AlteisenX

    and suddenly… I’m not interested.

    Thanks Konami. I only waited how many years after OoE to get a God of War 2.5D adventure…? [at least from what I saw in the trailer] *sigh*

  • SirRichard

    Castlevania III is my favourite of the older games, so I’m glad they’re taking inspiration from it for this. The differences between each of the characters is great, keeps things varied and allows for all manner of neat little callbacks.

  • KuroiKen

    I’d prefer Metroidvania…since it was the best…
    Well, or at least like Rondo of Blood…since it was the best in it’s kind…

    • boundries_san

      Castlevania 3 is really not a bad one here though.^^ U should give it a try as till now, i still believe it is a hell of fun to play……..except the damn stairs.T_T

      • KuroiKen

        I already did, so no need to play it again. I never liked it really much. For me it’s average.
        I actually played most of the series titles, so I can easily compare them and say what’s the best for me.
        Anyways, this 3DS title still looks unattractive as ever. I probably will only buy it if I find it somewhere for a really cheap price, since I’m more than just sceptical about it’s developers(which are SADLY not Konami themselves. well ‘tleast they ain’t giving their dating sim development to westerners. at least.).

  • Godmars

    Pity. We need more Metroidvania-type games.

    Sure it might mean backtracking, but when done right it could mean active investigation and research in an RPG.

    A Metroidvania RPG people! think about it!

    • Kier Arnold

       I agree. The most recent Metroid game, Other M, discarded a lot of the Metroidvania aspects. I’m looking forward to the Castlevania III parts, but we are still missing both the “Metroid” and the “vania” in the Metroidvania genre.

    • http://www.facebook.com/people/Simon-Olliver/1347169583 Simon Olliver

       SMT: Strange Journey has sort of metroidvania aspects and is an RPG. An awesome one

  • http://profile.yahoo.com/34AM7T5QORDLZBHHD3HMSGQIUE Esteban

    Ohhhh Konami (in a lower voice) you mean is not a Metroidvania ?…..oh okay. (pissd off disappointing way) PASSSSS!!!!!!

    • Testsubject909

      Okay buddy, let me ask you this.

      What do you think of a game that has a large extensive map that focuses on exploration, provides you with unlocking different platforming and combat abilities which enables you to explore more of the map along with four different characters to choose from who all have differing abilities that enables different form of platforming about and around obstacles and blocked off paths while simultaneously altering the exploration of previous areas if you so choose to backtrack?

      Because as far as I’ve heard and seen, that sounds like the description for this game…

  • Solomon_Kano

    Sweet. I enjoyed the Metroidvania entries in the franchise, but it’s awesome that Cox’s team took inspiration from earlier titles in the franchise. It’s a pity to me that people seem to act like the Metroidvanias are the only style that’s ever existed in CV.

    • boundries_san

      Well it is not something we can blame them here too lol. Most of the gamer now maybe had ever even played the old traditional Castlevania on NES while us the old gamer had tried before which is why we are granted to accept this more easier than the new gamer here.^^

      • Solomon_Kano

        True. So sad lol.

      • Testsubject909

        You know, something I never understood personally was how many gamers, at least from LPs that I’ve listened to, seem so dejected at times due to their failings or frustrated at what I consider just a minor setback.

        But then I remember that when I was a kid, one of the things I used to do for fun whenever I was in Montreal was to play Battletoads on Co-op, never in single player, with my cousins.

        And I think “That explains everything”.

        • boundries_san

          Ahhh Battletoads.^^ When it is single player, it is hard. But when i played co-op……. it is hell.T_T

          • Testsubject909

            I guess.

            I never really had a problem with replaying the first levels over and over again. The game was fun.

            So yeah I died and we had to restart, but we restarted with a smile, and we died with an “Awww. That’s okay, we’ll beat it someday!” attitude.

          • boundries_san

            Yeah. Nowadays, gamer took game not anymore as media of fun but something serious. Don’t game purpose is too entertain us? Why only for game we gamers must fight each other, bashing each other?

            Game seems to have lose their main purpose here.T_T

          • Testsubject909

            It’s a natural change due to the evolution of our medium, of the genre.

            It’s not a bad thing, it just means we have a lot more to gain than to lose, plus nothing prevents games from still being mindless fun or being taken as mindless fun. Though, naturally, with more story, with more continuities being created, lengthy epics, experimental games, artistic ones, long running franchises. Such actions and reactions are to be expected if you ask me.

  • http://www.thejaystack.com/ Jon Stachewicz

    Well I mean the older Castlevania games are markedly better than the Metroidvanias so this isn’t even necessarily a bad thing.

    • Guest

       yeah okay whatever pal

      • http://www.thejaystack.com/ Jon Stachewicz

        I just feel like the game design was tighter overall.  Your movement was limited, but the levels and individual challenges were built around that limitation; progression through the stages was supposed to be slow and methodical, and it was rewarding at the same time.  There were fewer weapons and abilities, sure, but each one of them had a more significant purpose.  On top of all that, with the exception of Symphony of the Night, I prefer the visual style/music of the pre-Metroidvanias as well.  

    • boundries_san

      I also kinda love Classicvania more here lol.^^ Especially Castlevania 3 and 4.^^

      While Metroidvania provide a lot of freedom in a maze, the recent series except Order of Eclesia is too easy for me. But well there are also others who love Metroidvania style, maybe this time is just not their time.^^

  • Vampiric

    id liek a vania in the future

    • Guest

       Ask Aeon

  • Herok ♞

    As disapointed as I am if they get back to metroidvaina style after the LoS series is over I can live with it

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_Q6NXXGMO5XNSMJ64NIHYHFP56A Vince

    “What is a Metroid-vania?”

    • ThatBlackGuy

      A Miserable little Pile of Freedom, But enough talk have at you.

      • Chow

        “Die monster!”

        • Testsubject909

          I’m having some trouble determining who you’re accusing of being a monster…

          • Chow

            “You don’t belong in this world!”

      • SpecDotSign

        Commenters ill need a savior like you!

      • ffboi7

        “Your words are as empty as your soul. Mankind ill need a savior such as you!”

      • joemari5

        Isn’t it, “A miserable little pile of secrets”?

        • ThatBlackGuy

          Yes it is but I changed it up to and mixed the answer to Vince question and to also quote his quote with another quote.

      • Testsubject909

        Freedom?

        Boy… You know. I’ve played all of the Metroidvania Castlevania games. Let me tell you. It’s not exactly the form of freedom that you might be stating it is. The game tends to be quite linear just with a multiple branching path design. In that respect, you have as much freedom as you did in, say, Castlevania 3.

        Castlevania 3: Do I take down this enemy by whipping it? Do I use my subweapons? Do I just try to jump over it? Shall I take the upper path or the lower path? Do I want to take this character with me or that character with me? Should I use Grant and just climb on walls or trek my way through by jumping around? Maybe use Alucard and transform into a bat to skip most of the difficult platforming stages or try out Sypha’s magic instead and not go for Alucard? What path do I take?

        Metroidvania: Let’s go straight forward and choose one of the two different paths given to me to get this ability. Now that I have this ability, I have one place to go through to get to the boss to unlock my next ability that will let me go through a place I didn’t explore because the game blocked it off for me, disabling access to it until I got the item it wanted me to get in this specific order. Now the game opens up a bit to provide me with a list of, let’s say, 3 different skills to gain that are serviceable individually, but altogether are all required to advance to the next section of the game that’s ultimately blocked off because the game still expects me to play within this area.

        That’s a lot of freedom, yes, within restrictions. You have your choice of pre-determined paths with pre-determined abilities and available items pending the enemies that are currently available for you to defeat with pre-determined skills.

        Mind you, I do agree that it is a lot of enjoyable freedom compared to other highly linear games. But I would argue that you can find equivalent amount of entertaining freedom within non-metroidvania style games. Really, just about any game that provides you large spaces to explore would do the trick here… Like say, Silent Hill 2. Definitely is very linear, yet it still provides a good sensation of freedom despite the same amount of blockades as a Metroidvania.

        edit: Yes. I just compared gameplay elements from Silent Hill 2 to Metroidvania games.

    • doubleO7

      Short version: A variety of side-scrolling action/adventure platformer with mild RPG elements, like the classic Castlevanias and Metroids, hence the name.

      • Phlo

        Whoosh.
        (The quote marks are the hint here!)

      • Guest

         You missed the biggest point: vast huge maze like level design offering backtracking and multiple location points

  • LittleMofreaky

    just make it like Super Castlevania 4 and we’re good

    • Testsubject909

      Well, if you look at the elements found within Castlevania Lords of Shadows on PS3 and 360. That game basically is a 3D Super Castlevania 4 in term of it’s action combat gameplay.

  • https://twitter.com/#!/SplashdownTiger STiger

    Missing from the interview is the “wink wink nudge nudge” right after he said “It’s definitely not Metroidvania.”

  • Shadowman

    Cool I like Metroids.

  • VenerableSage

    Quite appropriate that he says that Dracula’s Curse is the main inspiration for this; when he uttered the words “Dracula’s curse” during the 3DS Showcase, I had a hunch that those words were specifically chosen, due to it being Trevor’s origin. Now everything makes sense.

  • Vadim Merzhey

    I miss 2D Metroidvanias.

  • Jirin

    Are there levels?

    Expereince levels and platorming don’t mix.

  • http://profiles.yahoo.com/u/HAEBCODVH3BGFIHE47BKNDXD2I Jonathan

    I like to call this one: Castlevania: Lament of Trying Too Hard

    • Testsubject909

      Why do I smell irony here…

  • Laharl

    It’s kinda hypocritical of them to throw out the metroidvania formula, but to cash in on the alucard fame from SotN…
    Yes, I know that Alucard was in CV3 first, but he looked NOTHING like the SotN or MoF version.

    • Testsubject909

      I fail to see where the hypocrisy lies.

      They’re basing themselves more on Castlevania 3, adopting certain aspects of more recent open world 2D platforming exploration Castlevania games into their level designs, and taking characters from the classic years.

      Also, do you know what he looked like in CV3? Like a small accumulation of pixels that only made him look tall with long hair, black in color yes, but I think more fans would’ve screamed injustice if they had given Alucard black hair rather than white hair.

      Plus. This being a continued timeline of Castlevania. Alucard was bound to come by at some point or another… Would you rather they never get around to putting Alucard in?

      • Laharl

        If you are going to reboot, don’t try to put the SotN styled Alucard in you GoW clone. And yes, it is a shameless clone, the attack style and grappling is much closer to GoW that anything like DMC or LoI. The mix of more open platforming and Blond Alucard is clearly a smoke screen to distract the SotN era fans from noticing it’s simply 2D GoW.

        Or better yet, don’t hamfistedly throw in random old characters who makes no sense in your mythology for the sake of pandering to old fans, if your game is nothing like the old game. 

        Christ, This game is aping so many tropes from the IGA games you wonder why they even rebooted it in the first place. This is the most feminine looking belmont yet. Way to not fall into the anime androgyny hole again guys.

  • WyattEpp

    “this game has a map to explore…go back and explore other area of the castle as other characters”
    “not really a Metroidvania….It’s definitely not Metroidvania.”
    Wow, talk about sending mixed messages, Dave.

  • Quinton Cunningham

    Good. After HD, PoR, and OoE, I think Metroidvania has run it’s course. Time for something new and this looks like the jolt the series needed.

  • Reno Evangelista

    Although there is a corpse, it’s not really political assassination. It is very much a “generic human interaction” inspired by humans like Guy Fawkes and Lee Harvey Oswald and their interactions with others. People kept telling me they wanted me to have a more murdery approach to living life.

    The inspiration really comes from James Earl Ray. It’s more about me taking a sniper rifle and shooting a bullet through the president’s brain. I definitely didn’t kill the president.

  • Tan Wei Lun

    so, it plays like lords of shadow, but in 2.5d? i like it.

  • malek86

    It’s been a while since we’ve last had an action-platformer Castlevania like the old ones. I’m quite interested in this.

  • Tom_Phoenix

    There’s nothing wrong with Classicvania, so I don’t mind if they really did take inspiration from one of those titles.

    The problem is that this game seems less like Classicvania and more like God of War: The 2D Edition.

    • Guest

       Tired of people talking about GoW. Didnt Devil May Cry come out before it? So why the stupid GoW comparisons. Stop talking about GoW. damn. Only thing I see similar is the QTE moments but no one has a monopoly on QTE.

      • Tom_Phoenix

        First of all, the reason why people compare it to God of War is beacuse that is the game that most likely influenced MercurySteam. Sure, Devil May Cry does precede God of War, but God of War is more recent and thus more likely to influence newer titles.

        And second, what we compare it to isn’t the main point here. Even if I said this game seems like Devil May Cry: The 2D Edition, the problem here is that it doesn’t seem like a Castlevania game (whether Classic or Metroidvania). Even people who liked Lords of Shadow generally agreed that it wasn’t really a Castlevania game, so the fact that they didn’t take this into account when making a 2D Castlevania feels disheartening, to say the least.

        As for the QTEs, I honestly don’t care where they came from; they have no business being in a 2D platformer.

        • SirRichard

          “Even people who liked Lords of Shadow generally agreed that it wasn’t really a Castlevania game,”

          Not generally, no, often the people that claim it isn’t a Castlevania game are the ones who cling blindly to Metroidvania being the only style the series has ever had. It’s the same thing as saying the Metroidvanias don’t feel like Castlevania games; it’s a new style, man, you don’t have to like it but that doesn’t stop it from being a Castlevania game.

          They don’t have to take Metroidvania elements into account when making a 2D/2.5D Castlevania, because those aren’t the sole form of 2D Castlevania games.

          • Tom_Phoenix

            Yes, it is generally agreed. I don’t know what you’re talking about. James Rolfe, for example, is a big fan of the series, much prefers the Classicvania model (you can check his Castlevania retrospective, if you don’t believe me) and liked Lords of Shadow, yet he also said that (check at about 5:00):

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=04v_YTv2_a0

            And, to be honest, it’s not like it’s a new criticism. All the 3D Castlevania games were hit by this kind of criticism.

            Metroidvania may have been a new direction for the series, but in some ways, it built on aspects that were already present in the Classicvania titles. Exploration was already an increasingly big part of Castlevania games even before SotN and there were experiments with RPG mechanics (Castlevania II: Simon’s Quest, for example). Lords of Shadow didn’t; it took it’s own direction, thus feeling like a fundamentally different game as a result.

            Infact, Lords of Shadow wasn’t even a Castlevania game when they started development on it; it was initially built as an original IP. It was only after Konami reviewed an early build of the game did they decide to pitch it as the next entry in the series. So LoS literally is a God of War-like title with a Castlevania coat of paint.

            You are free to like Lords of Shadow, but that doesn’t make it a Castlevania game.

          • SirRichard

            He’s hardly the best example to use, though, because he says as much about Metroidvanias in the fourth part of his CV retrospective. And, well, he’s just one guy, regardless of the size of his fanbase (many of whom would be all too willing to parrot his ideas, unfortunately) or what have you.

            I don’t really think Lords of Shadow is as divided from the rest of the series as people say it is, though. It does have elements of back-tracking and minor exploration, it has platforming, it has a range of locales and gothic atmosphere to it. It has enough elements of previous Castlevanias to count, regardless of what it started as or what it plays like.

            I don’t see how it being different stops it from being a Castlevania game.

          • Testsubject909

            Castlevania lords of shadow was a Castlevania game during it’s Alpha development stages.

            Your information is flawed, please, go read about a half a dozen articles and interviews to double check your information ooooor… Let me show it for you through this old thread I made when the game first got released and spent about a week cross referencing a variety of different sources, listening to various interviews and reading various different statement to shut the ignorant fans from spewing ignorant statement that only perpetuates irritating ignorance…

            Can you tell the subject irritates me? Makes me want to punch someone.

            http://www.gamefaqs.com/boards/952494-castlevania-lords-of-shadow/57053220 

            edit: You are free to feel that the game might not feel like a Castlevania FOR YOU… But the game is. Very much so. Unfortunately for your personal taste or anyone else’s… A Castlevania game.

        • Testsubject909

          YYYyyyyyyo.

          Howya doin?

          I’m one of em person who states that Castlevania LOS felt and played like a Castlevania. Just as much as Lament of Innocence played and felt like a Castlevania despite being a DMC clone at the time.

          The reason?

          How do you translate 2D Whip Combat into 3D Whip Combat befitting the modern gaming era?

          Exactly.

          edit: And anyways, the gameplay is leagues ahead of Castlevania 64…

          • KuroiKen

            There’s a difference between LoS and LoI – LoI is made by Konami, whilst LoS is made by another company(not even a japanese one). They feel totally different in terms of gameplay, storyline and overall.

          • Testsubject909

            You know what felt completely different in gameplay, storyline and overall?

            Lament of Innocence and Curse of Darkness.

            You know what else felt completely different in terms of gameplay, storyline and overall?

            Castlevania 64 and Lament of Innocence…

            “Hey! Castlevania 64 was built in an entirely different era”

            Yes. 1 Console Generation ago, the same generational gap as Lament of Innocence and Lords of Shadow.

            “But hey, Lords of Shadow feels like a God of War clone, that’s totally not Castlevania.”

            Lament of Innocence was accused of being a DMC clone, and to many, did not feel like it played like Castlevania, as a combo system in Castlevania as opposed to a singular strike, was not commonplace for Castlevania games.

            Also, the original Castlevania trilogy was built by an entirely different team then those who built the latter Metroidvania games.

            So, my question to you is…

            Your point? What is it?

          • KuroiKen

            Team might be different, but the feel is the same.
            I know for sure I dropped LoS, but liked every game made by Konami’s teams.
            Konami knows how to make games, westerners don’t.
            Nuff said

        • KuroiKen

          Heard a review on LoS once. They said it right “Well, let’s see. First we’ll stamp it with “Like God of War”, since it’s generally GoW, just in another setting. Then, lesse, oh, they have GIANT BOSSES here, so we’re stamping it with “Like Shadow of the Collossus”. And the last will stamp the amazingly bad storyline, which reminds us that LoS is “Like Dante’s Inferno”. But you know, guys, the game’s missing ONE really important stamp. Which? “Like Castlevania”, of course.”
          Those westerners can’t make games feel like Konami made them feel. It would be better if they totally renamed the series(well, actually, in Japan they did rename it. If the original games were Akumajo Dracula or something like that, LoS was Kyassuruvania: Lords of Shadow, and was generally unaccepted by fans in Japan. They also called Lament of Innocence as Kyassuruvania, though they at least made it themselves, which caused outrage of the fans, making Konami return to Akumajo Dracula with Curse of Darkness(actually, Yami no Juin doesn’t really translate like that)).
          So how does all that relate here? This game is also made by westerners, will be called Kyassuruvania in Japan, and probably get bashed there, since I feel like it’s gonna be complete fail. How’s that important? Well, it’s totally only my opinion, but japanese won’t play a bad game, though.

          • Altritter

            I don’t care what Japanese fans think of this game or any other Castlevania game because Japanese people don’t buy the games. Lifetimes sales of the entire franchise in NA are VASTLY larger than in Japan. The games even sell more in Europe than they do in Japan. Japan’s forsaken this franchise ever since SotN, and even that still had far better sales in the west.

  • Yesshua

    I don’t think this is a problem, the old linear Castlevania games are better than the open world genre games in some ways.  Rondo of Blood is actually my favorite entry in the franchise, so I’m definitely not going to discredit a game for being more like the series entry I like most.

    There is an odd thing I’m noticing though.  In the trailers when we see combat the protagonist swings his combat cross around and is able to cover a good 2/3 of the screen (at least) just by attacking.  The old linear Castlevania games focused on giving the player very limited attack vectors and then challenging the player to position themselves just so to be able to attack safely.  Be it hitting a spear knight with the very tippy tip of your whip to avoid the counter attack or staying at the perfect range against an axe knight where you could react to the axe throws but it wouldn’t charge you, the enemies in the old games required extremely precise positioning to defeat.  This is also why sub-weapons used to be such a huge deal – they let you hit attack angles otherwise very dangerous, and sometimes you could alternate your whip and sub-weapon attacks to cover multiple attack vectors at once.

    But looking at Trevor Belmont rip through enemies in that trailer, this game seems like a very different beast.  The player is given a very large attack spread by default and it even goes through enemies, so you can just swing your weapon around to rip through hordes.  Clearly the sort of pixel fine positioning challenges that the old Castlevania games threw at you with their challenging enemies and level design isn’t gonna be the rule here.

    I’m not saying that anything in this game looks bad, but it sure doesn’t look like it’s descended from the older Castlevania games they pulled inspiration from.  Maybe this new thing will be good though!  Castlevania has a good history of crazy reboots after all.  Symphony of the Night was good, and so was Lords of Shadow.

    • SirRichard

      When you put it like that, it actually sounds like Super Castlevania IV instead of III. In that game your whip covered a fairly big part of the screen and went through enemies, and could be used in any direction (making subweapons almost useless for most of the game).

      • Yesshua

        That’s a fair comparison actually.  They also showed the whip swinging mechanic at E3 and that’s another callback to Super Castlevania IV.  I’ll try to keep that in mind (because I love Super Castlevania IV) and be a little more positive about this game going forward.

      • Testsubject909

        I do keep repeating myself in my statement that in various article it is referred that Cox liked the older Castlevanias and based himself off of Super Castlevania 4, which I believe might have been mentioned as being his favorite Castlevania game.

    • Guest

       The old games were gimped take off your nostalgia glasses. Pressing up to walk up stairs is stupid and so is no run animation. Metroidvania offered advanced 2D level design instead of simplistic ‘a to b’ linearity which plagues most 2d games that era around it to the point of insanity. Why throw out ingenuity its pointless. Metroidvania is called that for a reason; because Metroid pioneered clever level design. gah.

      • SirRichard

        It’s like you never played the old Castlevanias. With the exception of Simon’s Quest (the second game), the level design in the old games was great. You were always in the position to effectively deal with the challenges put ahead of you, and they were designed with the idea that you would be storming through them, so you’d get your rear handed to you. You needed to be careful, to think about the path you would take. Nostalgia glasses has nothing to do with it, the likes of Castlevania III boasted impressive level designs that challenged the player. At least, the Japanese version of III did, the Western version had edits made to it to make it tougher because of differences in videogame rentals between regions.

        Just because you didn’t like it doesn’t make it terrible. I don’t like chocolate, does that make all chocolate terrible?Linearity is not a bad thing, knowing where the player is coming from allows for smart, tight level design. Some get it right, some don’t. Simon’s Quest was arguably non-linear, and guess what? It was terrible and the level design was awkward and ill-thought out.

        Metroid hardly pioneered clever level design, either, does Super Mario Bros. not exist? And Metroid isn’t Castlevania. I would hardly call the maps of the Metroidvania Castlevanias “advanced 2D level design”; they’re big, certainly, but also filled with featureless, unchallenging corridors to breeze through, and that’s without individual issues related to each of the more recent handheld Castlevanias, either.

        And because I know you’re going to bring them up; I was born in 1994, mate. The Classicvanias were before my time, I didn’t play them until a few years ago, nostalgia goggles don’t apply.

        • Guest

          ugh okay fine you win happy? Plus I never said I didn’t like it. I just appreciate innovation and evolution in design you know. Otherwise we’d all be still driving Model T Fords…

          • SirRichard

            Yeah, that’s why you called it gimped and referred to liking it as wearing nostalgia glasses. 

            And it’s not like the old games didn’t innovate or evolve; II was wildly different from the first, III refined the first and added branching paths and multiple characters, IV brought the series into the 16-bit era and allowed for whipping in all directions and so on. The classics did innovate and evolve, to say otherwise is to completely ignore the differences between them.

      • Yesshua

        I actually didn’t play any Castlevania games at all until three years ago, and when I discovered the franchise I started playing as many as I could find.  I like the old linear Castlevania games even without nostalgia glasses :)

        I actually think that level design is the thing that makes the old school Castlevania games special.  Because the player has so few options the designers were able to make levels that were challenging but always possible using your tools.  In Metroidvania games the player has so many different tools and options that the levels can’t be designed to teach and challenge particular skills.  Old Castlevania games demanded complete mastery of limited mechanics, while newer Castlevania games have instead encouraged experimentation with a huge assortment of mechanics.  There are pros and cons.  I’m not saying linear Castlevania is better in all ways, but in terms of being able to craft tight challenges and develop a difficulty curve I think they were superior.  I hope that this new game is able to capture that same sense of careful level design as the classics!

      • Testsubject909

        You gotta remember buddy, newer does not always mean better.

    • http://www.thejaystack.com/ Jon Stachewicz

      This guy gets it

    • Testsubject909

      Well, keep in mind Cox based his first Castlevania game off of Super Castlevania 4.

      And that game definitely provided you an overpowered lengthy whip and rendered subweapons rather extremely secondary. Plus there is the sad part that the game is attempting to appeal to a wider audience, so higher avatar strength is typically necessary for reeling in a new audience. Though thankfully challenge can easily be scaled back to an appropriate level despite an increase in range.

      I mean, look at Lament of Innocence. That game had it’s fair share of challenging moments despite the whip’s good range.

  • http://www.fogalchemist.com/ caleb1993

    I find it pretty sad that they have to keep reaffirming that this isn’t Metroidvania. As much as I enjoy those style of games (OoE and SotN are personal favorites that I have played over and over), they are not the only version of Castlevania. Not every Castlevania game needs level ups or stats being boosted. They don’t all need to be optional grindfests. There’s something charming about going in and only having the whip and subweapons to use as the castle is traversed.

    Sure GoW comparison’s have been going around with games for ages (well since it released in 2005) so that’s expected with pretty much any action game, but this one does have more of its own identity (save in monster choices apparently…I didn’t know many of those were Grecian in origin). Everyone’s entitled to their opinions, but I’m just glad to be getting a new handheld Castlevania. To me that’s what’s important, not whether it’s Metroidvania or a GoW clone.

  • http://twitter.com/FaithlessMr Bruno Silva

    Gah, kinda disappointed. Out of all the Vania games, the ones I like best are the Metroidvania type of vanias. Not as excited about this game as I was, but I’ll give the demo a try and decide whether or not I want to play the actual game from there on I guess.

  • http://alboreo.tumblr.com Alboreo

    Oh. Well, that’s disappointing.

  • boundries_san

    Ohhh man.^^ To think that my wish of having Classicvania is granted this fast.^^

    And i kinda don’t understand the hate here.T_T Classicvania on Castlevania 3 is hell of fun and considering this game also allowed us to play as multiple player, this probably will be the more or less the same kind Castlevania 3 where some path is better traveled with certain and provide us more replaybility here.

    • Testsubject909

      Same hate that happened when some classicvania fans started butting heads with metroidvania fans.

      Differing favoritism for differing genres clashing against one another within the same franchise.

      • z_merquise

        What I find annoying are people who claim themselves ‘True Castlevania fans’ who will like the one kind and hate the other.

        “True Castlevania fans like 2D not this 3D crap”

        “True Castlevania fans like action-vania not this Metroid-vania crap”

        “True Castlevania fans like Metroid-vania not this GoW-clone crap”

        “True Castlevania fans only play the ones made by Japan, anything from Western developers are automatically crap”

        “True Castlevania games are produced by IGA, every Castlevania games before and after IGA games are not real Castlevanias”

        Seriously, can’t these kind of people just be open-minded?

        I became a fan of the series starting with the Gameboy Advance Castlevania games. I started checking and playing almost all of the games that came before and after that since. I love most of them, some were disappointing.

        As for the non-Japanese Castlevania, I was a bit skeptical of Castlevania: Lords of Shadows back then because the games Mercury Steam made before Lords of Shadows were bad. But the trailers, previews, interviews made me excited with it. But when I finally played the game myself, it’s very good and I really like it. Yeah, the game had flaws but every games do. In the end, I like it.

        So yeah, I like Castlevania games, both the Japanese-developed and the Western ones. Am I not this so-called ‘true Castlevania fan’ just because I started with the GBA ‘vanias and also like the current one by Mercury Steam and Konami Europe?

        • M’iau M’iaut

          If we able to solve your last question, I would be out of a mod job :P. I’d like to think the answer is something as actual as folks no longer willing (for whatever reason) to play games outside their comfort zone, but at the end of the day, it’s easy to spew venom.

          • Testsubject909

            Speaking of spewing venom.

            I’m surprised that nobody’s pointed me out as vehemently defending LOS while being quite on the offense towards DmC.

            Though I think I’ll preemptively argue my case here, just in case some lurker out there was thinking it or something.

            LOS, I find worthy of defending, because when I took the time to look at it objectively. It had every element of a Castlevania game and respected both the gameplay elements and lore. Were they well implemented? Now that’s where the real debate lies… And that’s where the game lost a lot of support it could have easily gained, had it just tweaked a few things. Such as the music. Enjoyable, but it didn’t feel like standard Castlevania fare. Music is feeling, and if the feeling is lacking, a lot people will not Feel that it is a Castlevania game, despite all other indications pointing towards the opposite of their emotions.

            DmC on the other hand… Well, this is a thread for LOS so I’ll keep what I have to say about DmC on the DmC news articles. But my opinion on it should be pretty clear. And my previous statements on why I defend LOS should pretty much explain what it is about DmC that I’m on the offensive about.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            Ishaan and I have both boxed your ears before, and we weren’t always seeing eye to eye before I turned to the dark side. That being said, saying I don’t like this game and here’s why is NOT spewing venom, nor is it what our sharper mod focus is designed to correct.

            Spewing venom is making comments whose single purpose is designed to get a rise and activate the defense mechanisms of the other side. ‘Thoughts’ made without thinking and lacking any substantive and supportive remarks.

            I may still think you and PbH are a couple of crazy a*s otaku, but I promise not to hold that fact against you (or any other crazy a*s otaku) — too much.

          • Testsubject909

            I was thinking more of someone spewing venom to rile me up moreso then you or me spewing venom actually.

            Plus I’ve no grudge against anyone here in Siliconera.

            Also. I’m a crazy otaku? Huh… Well, guess I do have a lot of games so yeah. Really stopped referring to myself as one a very long time ago, probably around the same time I abandoned any use of emoticons since I no longer saw any use for them, preferring to express myself the long way… Much to the detriment of some people out there who can’t handle heavy walls of texts.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            One glance at my avatar should tell ya I’m not going to hold being a crazy a*s otaku against anyone :P. 

            My goal is to limit venom in any form. When it comes to this responsibility, I don’t play any side. Please keep with your wall of texts, long as you include those little things like PARAGRAPHS that always tripped Master Stevens up. I could tell you how long we were on to his multiple personality disorder, but then I’d have to kill you right here on these threads, and that would only leave a bloody mess.

          • Testsubject909

            No worries, I tend to be a fan of making paragraphs. I’m not a fan of Disqus removing my line breaks though and turning three different paragraphs into a singular huge block though…

            Never did figure why Disqus does that…

            Also. Venom in any form. Does that include in Spiderman?

          • M’iau M’iaut

            Gotta let u talk about that venom — u caught me dude.

          • Testsubject909

            MUAHAHAHA!

            Let the carnage begin!

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k27sXR–zt8

      • boundries_san

        But….but….. i love all types of Castlevania here.T_T Even the one released on N 64.

        I wonder why people can’t try to appreciate what they get here without the need for bashing each other.T_T

        • Testsubject909

          I’ve no real comment on the N64 ones. I’ve not had any hands on, I’ve only mainly viewed videos, read statements and commentary on it and I believe one TAS of it, if memory serves correctly.

          Though as far as I’m concerned. If Konami would’ve continued making 3D Castlevania games, translating the gameplay elements of previous 3D Castlevanias and looking at the natural evolution and progression of 3D Castlevania games to date.

          Even if Konami would’ve been in charge. We would have most likely gotten a God of War clone much like what Cox made.

          • boundries_san

            Well gamer nowadays complain too much.T_T(I blame internet though lol.^^)

            While myself find that LoS is not the kind of Castlevania i thought it will be, i never seen it has something so badddd. After all the game is fun. the story is not bad and not to forget, it is the first time in Castlevania we play as Dracula.^^(Well before he change into Dracula though.)

            And about the 3D evolution, if u know some Castlevania title that is released on PS2, (I forget the title but the game allows us to use a char that control demons.) Is also hell of fun for me but many of the so called true Castlevania fans said the game is trash or it is not even Castlevania lol.

          • Testsubject909

            Ah… it’s not the first Castlevania where we play as Dracula… Technically…

            We had a Gameboy Game where we play as Dracula.

            We have two DS games where we’re technically playing as Dracula.

            We have a 3D Fighting game where we can play as Dracula.

            And we have an online multiplayer action platforming loot based game where we can, technically, play as Dracula.

  • http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia

    I hope they go back to doing Metroidvania-style games after this one. It’s become so synonymous with handheld Castlevania to me…

    This one might be fun, but I’d be sad if this became the norm, after how much I’ve loved the Metroidvania games. 

  • https://twitter.com/A_Beast_of_Prey Equinox K

    First off, I would like to mention this bit about a “Metroidvania” or “Castleroid” game. That is a bastardized amalgamation of the exploration of the Metroid games and the expansive path branching of the Castlevania games coined up by a game editor years ago within the last decade for the simply fact that “oh hey, this game has similar elements that ended up getting reworked into the Koji Igarashi Castlevania games and slapped with the inclusion of RPG elements, HUR HUR HUR I AM SO SMART.”. If anything the proper thing to call these would be platform adventure or even action-adventure instead of this nonsense.

    Cox’s point of bringing that up so much is so people will stop comparing it to the IGA series of games is because it does go back to the older Castlevania games (namely the first 3), while updating the move set to be something along of what you would see in games like action-RPGs,more modern action-adventure games like Enslaved, or Hack and Slash games–in other words, you get moves out the gate and then you obtain stronger moves and items by exploring and going back to areas that you have previously visited. Also what some of you fail to realize is exploration in games has been a round since the Atari era of videogames, Metroid didn’t set the standard, it improved on that and other games during the NES era started to do the same. If anything the IGA games ripped the RPG elements,exploration, and back tracking from games like Clash at Demonhead and The Guardian Legend (two games some of you probably never heard of).

    I’m getting tired of the excessive whining, complaining, wishing, and comparing. If you want that sort of game, start doing feedback to the developers and/or don’t purchase it. Stop acting like change is a bad thing as long as it is built upon the basis of the past and not forgetting that it still needs an element of enjoyment and some freedom in it. I rather have something like that instead of the same thing over and over or something that tries to be super duper different and then falling flat.

    • Testsubject909

      Still, it’ll be nigh impossible to get the words Castleroid, or more specifically, Metroidvania, out of gamer’s lexicon and vocabulary.

      edit: Basically, the imagery behind it is just a tad bit too powerful.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      This is a little bit of trivia for anyone that’s interested. Prior to E3 kicking off, Spencer and I were talking about all the interviews that were scheduled for us at E3, and one of them was with Dave Cox. While Spence and I were brainstorming questions, I specifically asked Spencer to ask Dave about any potential “Metroidvania” aspect in Mirror of Fate.

      For his part, Spencer said he didn’t like using the term Metroidvania, and frankly, I don’t either. Metroid is a series that’s very dear to me, and I’ve never understood the similarities between it and Castlevania, beyond the few that perhaps existed in Symphony of the Night. But “Metroidvania” seems to have become this instantly recognizable term for Castlevania fans, which is why Spencer asked the question that way.

      As for the complaints about this not being an “Igavania,” frankly, I haven’t seen the appeal of those in the longest time. Portrait of Ruin was a mess of a game, stylistically. It may have had the Castlevania name on it, but it was so anime-esque that I was a little put off by it. 

      Following Portrait, the next one we got was Order of Ecclesia–a game that had amazing art, excellent customization, and amazing bosses, but was so unfair and cheap that, despite my strongest efforts to love it, it nearly made me snap my DS in half on several occasions. No one else seems to want to admit this because Igarashi is apparently some holy grail god-level designer, but OoE was terribly unbalanced. I almost feel like people were so hungry for Castlevania that they honestly took whatever was fed to them and liked it. 

      And that’s why it makes me so sad to see the vocal minority starting to so worked up about Lords of Shadow and Mirror of Fate. From everything we’ve seen, they’re trying to be the one thing that none of the other recent Castlevania games have managed to be–fun, well-balanced, and interesting in their stories, all at once.

      • malek86

        I’m not sure what happened with OoE. A game isn’t supposed to be so freaking hard. Circle of the Moon is my favorite of the newer series, but it’s still not nearly as hard (and people consider CotM to be pretty hard).

        I think at that point Iga had started noticing that only fans were buying the games, so he thought he would cater to them by making a game which offered a challenge to long-time players. Too bad anyone who is not a Castlevania addict will end up hating it.

        Which would explain why this game is gonna be different. If they had kept Iga, chances are he would have made yet another game aimed at hardcore fans.

        Not gonna say anything about Portrait of Ruin. It was ok, but forgettable. Certainly not very Metroid-ish. SotN and CotM did a better job of translating the Metroid feel into another style. In comparison, PoR and OoE are very different.

        So well, I wouldn’t say that the “Metroidvania” term was wrong initially, but it has gone out of place with the years.

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          I was able to beat pretty much everything in the game with repetition and learning patterns… aside from Dracula. Seriously. I’m effectively stuck outside the final boss room.

          • https://twitter.com/A_Beast_of_Prey Equinox K

             That was me on Order of Ecclesia. Drac was a total jerkweed and probably the second hardest version of him I had difficulty defeating outside of the Castlevania 64 version.

      • https://twitter.com/A_Beast_of_Prey Equinox K

        That is rather interesting, and my sentiments exactly. Outside of certain elements, I don’t get the comparisons when that has been common throughout platform-adventure and action-adventure games for ages, and the name alone just seems wrong and dumb, but like @Testsubject909:disqus  and yourself mentioned, it seems to be the most recognized and would take awhile for people not to use it. Doesn’t mean it makes any more sense to use it however.

        I also feel the same in the regard of the games.Granted they all have their strong points and weak points, but outside of Symphony of the Night, all the ones that have come out since haven’t been able to recapture the scale of that single game. All the 3D ones aside, the 2D handheld games, in my opinion were particularly easy with Circle of the Moon being the most difficult (followed by Ecclesia). I too felt the art style for Portrait of Ruin could have been better and Ecclesia was marred by being too short (the maps weren’t terribly long or complex) and it was uneven in difficulty in areas. Even so, the games weren’t really bad, they just felt incomplete in some instances.

        When it comes to notable figures and celebrities, it is very few I consider infallible in their work, and the quality of it is usually very apparent when you take the time to see how those things came together. They all have their highs and lows, and the ones whose work at least tries to be consistent even when the rough spots that come up on occasion tend to be the ones who stand out more. Igarashi, unfortunately, is not infallible. He is highly skilled, but none of the Castlevania games have been very deep in story (and note this can be said about ALOT of games, as long as the story is decent and somewhat makes sense) or consistent in quality,even though most of the games have been good. With Lords of Shadow, and for what it is worth, Cox and crew are trying, because the series has not done anything too different in years since Symphony of the Night.

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100001531081700 Vale LN SkreiHolme

    CastleVania GET!

  • http://www.fogalchemist.com/ caleb1993

    Okay, so if a 2D Classicvania (I like that term) was made that had nothing to do with LoS and Western developers would there still be so much anger surrounding it? I’m curious because I’m unsure whether all the anger at the new direction for Castlevania is aimed at the lack of Metroidvania, the Western development studio or something else.

    • https://twitter.com/A_Beast_of_Prey Equinox K

      I think it’s both–not being IGA era Castlevania games and some of it being western developed,and then I think some folks forget that it’s being developed by a European country when “western developer” gets mentioned, which is ironic considering that’s where most of the games are based. I honestly don’t give a merry damn as long as the game is good.

    • SirRichard

      Most of it is simply because it isn’t an IGA game and isn’t a Metroidvania. The involvement of a Western studio and a move away from the anime art style is also a factor for many, I’d assume, but that doesn’t apply to the comments here (from what I’ve read).

      EDIT: No wait, definitely applies, have a gander at KuroiKen down the page.

      • Testsubject909

        I view the distancing away from the anime art style to be a definitive plus.

        I don’t know about all of you folks, but I for one prefer the artwork from, say, Symphony of the Night or Aria of Sorrow over Dawn of Sorrow and Portrait of Ruin… Ugh…

        • SirRichard

          No, I definitely agree with you there. I feel the series veered right into generic anime with Dawn of Sorrow and spent the next two games clawing its way back out. I appreciate Lords of Shadow for at least fully getting away.

    • http://twitter.com/FaithlessMr Bruno Silva

       I’d still prefer a Metroidvania style of game. I grew up playing Classivania, yes (Belmont’s Revenge is one of my childhood defining videogames, actually), but the Metroidvania is what made the series huge for me. I am not the biggest fan of reboots overall and whatanot, but that has absolutely nothing to do with my opinion on this. I’ll still give the game a try, but I was expecting something slightly different, if what has been posted in this article is anything to go by that is.

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Eugenio-Gil/100000517635083 Eugenio Gil

    This sounds epic! I am really glad they are looking at
    the older games for more inspiration especially Castlevania III, my favorite.
    This game keeps sounding better and better! I am definitely getting a 3ds for
    this!

  • manobon

    The trailers make it seem more like God of War 2.5D edition (or Devil May Cry 2.5D…except the protagonist is literally using a long chained weapon, like in God of War)…which is not my cup of tea. I even dislike the Metroidvania games (except for Richter mode in SoTN and Julius mode in Aria of Sorrow- No Experience Grinding!), so it’s not about the different reference material for the game.

    Oh well- maybe I’ll be completely surprised by the game/reviews, and it won’t just be “run, stop to whip at all enemies on the screen, resume running” for the majority of the game.

    • Testsubject909

      Considering the screenshots we’ve seen, the different abilities provided to the different characters, it’ll probably also involve platforming and puzzle solving.

  • GVmanX

    Unfortunate. Were the Metroidvania-style games not doing well in sales, or are they just having to follow the reboot thing set up by the home console games?

    • Altritter

       I believe the sales were declining for them but anyone can feel free to correct me if I’m wrong. This game is still made by the guys who did LoS1 though and that seems to be what Konami wishes to do at the moment. At any rate they say that LoS is going to end with LoS2, the third game, so maybe they’ll go back to Iga’s games at that point, but I think this game looks like a refreshing break from that.

      • http://Gematsu.com/ Bruno Silva

         Yeah, game sales for the series were going down until the reboot, which obviously made the series more popular, by focusing on a much, much bigger audience.

        I personally don’t have a problem with LoS, at all, it’s a really fun game, but I just wish we’d still have a metroidvania game once in a while, and have these two different directions in the Vania series coexisting. Now that would be awesome :) But I guess cash doesn’t come easy nowadays, with this economy and whatanot.

  • Testsubject909

    As to be expected.

    The guy who decided to go back to the roots of Castlevania to restart the series anew is going to get a lot of angry comments from the newer fans who began their trek through Castlevania from Symphony of the Night or Aria of Sorrow and onward… Which is odd, since I started from SotN.

    And now he’s basing himself off of another classic Castlevania, as people need to remember, Cox is a fan of the older Castlevania games and not the newer ones, and now the fans are complaining again.

    Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t. I for one encourage him and support him. The gameplay might not have been the best, but it was a pretty good literal translation of the 2D action into 3D, though definitely more of action akin to Castlevania 4 and onward rather then the stiffer harder Castlevania 1 through 3.

    And as far as I’m concerned, a game that’s more Metroid than Metroidvania isn’t a bad thing in my book.

    • boundries_san

      “Damned if he does, damned if he doesn’t”

      Put this on Tales fans……. bingo???

      • Testsubject909

        You can put this on a lot of different series and developers.

        • http://twitter.com/FaithlessMr Bruno Silva

           Final Fantasy definitely comes to mind :P

    • Laharl

      As someone who started with the classic games, I don’t much care for CV being turned into a fairly shallow and simple button masher. 

      The strengths of Classic are lost without bottomless pits, Clever Level Design and simplified, Specific combat options, and the charm of SotN is lost without the open castle and mass amounts of loot and item searching.

      This… This just seems like a Toned Down GoW.

      • SirRichard

        “I don’t much care for CV being turned into a fairly shallow and simple button masher.”

        Well it’s very fortunate for you because that’s exactly what Lords of Shadow wasn’t!

        No, seriously, anyone who says they beat the game by just mashing buttons is lying, that stops being effective around the second chapter of the game when the bigger, hard-hitting enemies get involved. 

        You can fault Lords of Shadow for many things (very derivative, you effectively fight the same boss three times, ending revelation comes out of nowhere, etc) but its combat system was easily one of the better parts about it. It demanded keeping an eye on multiple enemies who could telegraph attacks and launch them while you focused on a particular one or a few, and you needed to be able to block, dodge and know when and where to use your magic. It had a definite challenge to it, and combat was rewarding and satisfying.

        tl;dr The “shallow button-masher” argument is only used by people who haven’t played the game.

        • Laharl

          “Block, Dodge and when and where to use your magic” Describes pretty much every hack and slash beat em up from Dynasty Warriors to Dark Souls.
          The combat in LoS wasn’t any deeper than the typical GoW/DMC clone from Dante’s Inferno to X-Blades.

          • SirRichard

            Yeah, there’s no differences or intricacies to any of those games at all, they’re all exactly the same in every way. Also Super Mario World is exactly the same as Sonic the Hedgehog and Symphony of the Night is just a shallow Super Metroid clone! I, too, remember playing Dark Souls and writing it off as the same thing as Dynasty Warriors and God of War.

            C’mon, seriously? You don’t have to like the game but that’s a silly argument to make.

          • Laharl

            Are you thick?

            I’m not saying Dark Souls is like DW, I’m saying how you described “The Depth” of LoS applies to most Hack and Slashers. 

            It’s shallow because the formula to combat is simple and the game basically holds your hand the whole way through. The combat doesn’t really reward you for thinking outside of the box.  

          • SirRichard

            Except Dynasty Warriors has no depth (not a problem, in my opinion) and I would argue that Dark Souls isn’t a hack ‘n’ slash, and you basically did say that by comparing the two.

            How are you defining “holding your hand the whole way through”, exactly? The game does it for the first fight by slowing things down so you can get the timing and then never again, not even on repeat playthroughs of that fight (which makes the final QTE of it awkward to pull off, they didn’t seem to account for the slow-down not being there). I can’t think of any instances where the combat holds your hand, actually. The puzzles do, it lets you skip them entirely in return for a paltry loss of an EXP bonus, but if you can’t get past a fight the game doesn’t care.

            That last comment is true, all it really does (when you can do it at all) is let you through fights more easily, but I don’t define that as a lack of depth. A lack of depth is Dynasty Warriors (where you need one button) and God of War (much as I enjoy them, the chained blades and Square-Square-Triangle basically win all fights), whereas in LoS you can’t fall back on button-mashing and need to make careful use of your magic in between refills.

          • Laharl

            One button? Spoken like someone who only played dynasty warriors on easy… for an hour.

          • SirRichard

            That’s all you can come back with after six days?

            Also last I played was Dynasty Warriors 6 on Normal, the musou modes of Zhang Fei, Guan Yu and that Wei guy with the long clawed fingers. It was the same thing each time, run to the targets and jam on the Square button when enemies draw near. It was a nice timewaster until something more substantial came along, I’l give it that.

          • Laharl

            Try that on Chaos, you’ll last all of 5 seconds.

            There are plenty of attack options, regular, charge, musou, air attacks, the branching combos, launchers, juggling, True Musou, Even the Orochi games let you swap characters mid-combo. Don’t mistake lower production value for variety in combat options.

          • SirRichard

            And try button-mashing on Paladin difficulty in Lords of Shadow and you’ll last about the same, if that depending on how many enemies are about.

            See, you say that Dynasty Warriors has all this variety, but refuse to see the same in Lords of Shadow, which also has a variety of options available in combat and allows for different approaches, just in a different play style from Dynasty Warriors. Why is it okay for one and not the other? I will admit I wasn’t being fair to Dynasty Warriors, but why should I when you won’t be fair about LoS?

          • Laharl

            No, I refuse to see LoS as any more than the very pretty by average hack and slasher it is.

            Even Warriors games games add the depth of defending allies and bases or else you will fail the mission, not just the typical GoW/DMC clean the room out and do the occasional puzzle.

            LoS isn’t a bad game, but I fail to see how another drop in the huge pool of derivative GoW clones really makes it a better game than the fairly uncommon Metroidvania styled games.

          • SirRichard

            That’s hardly depth. You could just as easily say “God of War at least changes up its gameplay with puzzles and specific challenges, not just the typical Dynasty Warriors ‘kill everything at the target point and occasionally kill it faster before it does X’.” But I doubt we’re ever going to come to some sort of resolution on this, if the rest of this back ‘n’ forth is any indication.

            And honestly, counting Lords of Shadow I can’t think of other games that copy God of War beyond Dante’s Inferno. It’s hardly a large genre, certainly not the same degree as, say, third person shooters.

          • Laharl

            Having to manage an entire army as apposed to one person isn’t deep?

            On hard difficulties it’s absolutely vital to plan your path through the level and finding the safest routes back to the people and places you need to protect, It’s hardly running in a straight line killing everything.

            There have been 5 going on 6 GoW’s, Dante’s Inferno, Viking, Conan, LoS (with 2 more coming), And that’s just the ones I can think of, and all just in the last 7 years.

          • SirRichard

            “On the hard difficulties” changes how many games work, though. God of War on the hard difficulties goes from an unchallenging hack ‘n’ slasher to an extensive game of blocking and dodging exactly right, Lords of Shadow on the hard difficulties makes careful use of your magic supplies vital especially early on when you have very little to spare, on the hard difficulties your approaches to enemies have to change to account for increased damage/improved AI/new tactics.

            God of War itself hardly counts as “God of War clones”, mate, and even counting all six beside the rest you named that’s hardly a “huge pool”, especially when compared to other genres which get far more games in a much smaller period of time. From the Autumn of last year to now, we got Modern Warfare 3, Battlefield 3, Serious Sam 3, Resistance 3, Hard Reset, Rage, Darkness II, Syndicate and Max Payne 3 and I know I’m forgetting a few.

          • Laharl

            What does FPS’s have to do with anything? It’s like the most popular genre ever, of course there are more than GoW styled games.

            I don’t even like GoW styled games, so why should I remember all of them? My point is that in the last few years we’ve seen just as many GoW styled games as Metroidvania styled games throughout the CV lifespan.

            If CV needed to be “Freshened Up”, I hardly consider GoW style a fresh take. That’s like “Freshening” up Contra by making it a cover shooter.

          • SirRichard

            And my point is that God of War style hack and slashers are nowhere as prominent as you claim they are, with the only regular ones being, well, God of War. I like this style of game, and I could only think of God of War, Lords and Dante’s Inferno, it’s hardly a big thing.

            And it is a fresh take for the series, because it’s something that hasn’t been done before for this series. You can argue whether it was a good idea or not, but it is a new take for the series. That Syndicate FPS was a fresh take on the series, but it’s widely agreed that it was the worst thing EA could’ve done with the IP, and don’t get me started on the X-COM one.

          • Laharl

            No, they aren’t as prominent as the strawman FPS’s you called out on.

            And we already had 2 3D hack-and-slash CV’s before, they were open-ended instead of riddled with Filler Puzzles and QTE’s…

            Though Curse of Darkness was probably the weakest CV yet.

          • Testsubject909

            Let’s see.

            Some of my favorite combo, off of memory here, it’s been a while. Heavy downward whip smashes link to wide sweeping blows, shoulder rush into an enemy, upward smash, double jump upward smash, falling swipe move to chainsaw windmill into an enemy. Typically useful against a mob of multiple small enemies and a focus on the bigger enemy for both heavy damage, combo, stun and magic recovery.

            If memory serves me correctly. I might have accidentally fused two different combos in there. It’s been a long time since I last played.

  • Laharl

    “Action Combat” 

    That doesn’t sound like SotN or Classic Castlevania, that sounds like GoW with more backtracking.

  • firstarioch

    I dont understand why Konami doesnt listen to its fans…its the only company except Bioware (but thats another story) in the world that simply just doesnt listen….
    I dont much care for earlier Castlavania games before SOTN ( maybe Turbo Duo one is an exception). The tech of consoles has vastly improved now . They can use Ayame Kojima artwork and breathe life into it ,animate it.  Make the game black and white pseudo 2d and show blood only in colour etc .I dont know but there is scope for innovation now. Why do they just make copy and paste game with this franchise (regardless of the system ) is beyond me.
    And for gods sake make Alucard a main protagonist in a a future game ,no just extra character here and there just to increase sales .Thats cheap ass thing to do.
    Make a proper sequel to SOTN with graphics to match and exploration elements etc and while you are doing it please make a proper Suikoden for us again .Those last 2 dont count and we didnt ask for them.Give us continuation of previous games. 

    • Testsubject909

      Mixed fans causes mixed demands. Your demand for example is not one I’ve actually heard that often, and I’ve talked to a fair amount of Castlevania fans.

      Also, technically, for the series, this is an innovation.

    • Solomon_Kano

      “its the only company except Bioware (but thats another story) in the world that simply just doesnt listen”

      Are you serious? Really? Like seriously? Are you seriously serious?

      Square Enix: Type-0
      LucasArts: Battlefront 3
      Capcom: Onimusha, Darkstalkers, DMC5
      Sega: Shenmue 3, Valkyria Chronicles 3
      Namco Bandai: ANY Tales localization

      And those are just a select few examples. I couldn’t even read the rest of your comment after that. If you have problems with Konami’s decisions, cool, but what world do you live in? Many companies don’t listen to their fans. Actually, to put it better, few companies listen to their fans. To even think that because one particular franchise isn’t headed in the direction you wanted it to go singles out a company as something different is terribly selfish logic. Beyond that, you don’t understand? Simply put: your goal wasn’t Konami’s goal. That’s why they don’t “listen” to their fans.

  • Nathan_GreeneIV

    Does anyone know how to pay for dlc on the 3ds. T-T 
    I’m pretty new to the whole system thing and can anyone help me out on it?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      There isn’t any paid DLC for 3DS games in the west yet as far as I’m aware. Theathrythm will be the first game in the west to incorporate paid DLC.

      • Nathan_GreeneIV

        Thank you Ishaan. I was curious to ask since Fire emblem was going to be also paid dlc. And I’m pretty sure mirror of fate will have the same sorta extra story chapter like they did in lords of shadows. Also is it like psn cards?

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          So, for the 3DS, you can either pay directly using your credit card (it lets you pay the exact amount as whatever you’re buying costs), or, yes, you can buy pre-paid cards like the PSN ones. 

          As for Fire Emblem, the DLC will probably be free for a limited time like it was in Japan! In Japan, it was free for the first month that the game was out, if I recall correctly.

          • Nathan_GreeneIV

            Thank you again ishaan! Man i feel rely on you when i need details.

          • British_Otaku

            This is news to me too.
            Free DLC for a month sounds good, till it comes to a late buyer who wants to enjoy Marth, they would have pay £3 or something. And later on when the online system is down, there won’t be any option.

            DLC in my Nintendo games, not a pretty sight and more of our products becoming services.

            Thanks for the word, Ishaan and thanks for asking, Nathan_GreeneIV.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            @British_Otaku:disqus @Nathan_GreeneIV:disqus No worries!

  • sfried

    Classicvania inspiration instead of Metroidvania? So bought!

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000581953673 Jesse Gallegos

    This is complete bull and contradicting what he said live on an interview that the world can watch here, ( http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUFOq0bxU8Y&feature=player_embedded# )! I don’t believe this guy! Your full of crap watch this live interview with the developer and he clearly states and shows the game playing like METROIDVANIA!

    • Altritter

      I remember him stating in another interview that it’s “Metroidvania” in the sense that you explore a huge castle but he didn’t really want to throw the term out because it has none of the other elements that people have come to associate with it; leveling/stats/equpiment/etc. At any rate, we’ll know everything for sure when the game is released.

  • Fedex_01

    I prefer Metroidvania……and not God of Warvania……still remembering Castlevania Symphony of the Night…..the best Castlevania game I ever played…..

  • Fedex_01

    And no Michiru Yamane´s Music, that´s not a castlevania game for me….:(

    • Testsubject909

      That’s relatively limited considering that the Castlevania series has had quite a varied amount of composers…

      • Fedex_01

        Yes , many composers who created every music …. for each level in a perfect way …… transporting you to the world of Castlevania, which in this new series does not pass, the gameplay, music, or anything of the game can´t call itself a castlevania game.

        • Testsubject909

          The gameplay can call itself Castlevania as much as Lament of Innocence did. The music is sorely lacking, there is no denying it. Everything else of the game can call itself Castlevania.

          Get your head out of the gutter, look to the history of Castlevania games and put 1 and 1 together. Outside of the music and some of the useless tidbits (such as the cake joke, that was pretty useless), everything SCREAMS Castlevania in 3D.

          • Fedex_01

            I’ve played almost every Castlevania games, and followed their stories so gripping and seductive, I love the story of Dracula, but a game is not only history, accompanied by what the player enjoys, and are all these dressings a work that stain really exciting to play ….. play this new series LORDS OF SHADOWS, just felt I was playing another GOD OF WAR game. I´ve played Lament of Innocense and the Curse of Darkness that are in 3D, I liked and felt they had much of the series, friends do not mind the change of platform, I resent the unnecessary copying of another game that has neither had anything to do with previous Castlevania is just my opinion and I do not expect anyone opine well … :)

          • Testsubject909

            Your accusations of Lords of Shadows being a God of War is the same as the accusation that Lament of Innocence was Devil May Cry.

            Basically… You’re being a hypocrite.

          • Solomon_Kano

            “I resent the unnecessary copying of another game that has neither had anything to do with previous Castlevania”

            Oh. But you liked Lament of Innocence? I take it you never played Devil May Cry then?

          • Fedex_01

            Chance that I´ve played all the Devil May Cry series,and I love it, something different and original, and never imagined or thought the relationship with Lament of Innocence, as the game had a lot of previous Castlevania series ( Lament of Innocence), you apparently do not appreciate the essence of the games, I cannot argue with players who enjoy only the start and finish a game, and do not care about anything else than that, I enjoy a game in all its qualities, and I think when I have only basics, beginners luck and enjoy the new action game God of Warvania …. lol

          • Fedex_01

             And you are so basic that leave comments without being able to respond, that speaks of ignorance and lack of foundation for an answer, good luck. :)

          • http://www.facebook.com/brhunov Bruno Vacirca

            I agree with Fedex, as him, Ive played almost every Castlevania game. There is nothing like Castlevania old series, it was a perfect game to play , you get hooked almost inmediatly and even if we have better graphics and all that stuff nowadays, that will never beat old school game series.

            Regarding these new series, it looks as though we were playing god of war, it does totally suck

  • http://www.facebook.com/ferofax Abdul Panganting

    …so they basically just said, “Think Lego [insert title here] where you use different characters to access different areas in a particular level”.

  • Haohmaru HL

    i’m not suprised, the spanish can’t do a good metroidvania, they killed the franchise with LoS game and i stopped caring after that..
    this time it’s just a 2d GoW

    • Testsubject909

      Now where did I leave it… where did I leave it…

      Ah. found it.

      *Grabs a bag full of evidence and tries to smack his subjective commentary out of the way*

      They killed nothing. Please, don’t impose your personal dislike of the game unto the overall series.

      You know what other game was said to have killed the franchise? Castlevania: Symphony of the Night.

      • Fedex_01

        Also, Castlevania Symphony of the the Night was regarded as an epic work of art …. and it is! !! to refresh the genre and also led the franchise to another level by integrating old and new in a perfect way ….

        • Testsubject909

          Guess what some people have been saying about LOS…

          This is pretty much the same situation.

          The older fans are split, with some complaining like all hell, others accepting it and some loving it, I myself quite enjoy it.

          And you have the newcomers who enjoy it a lot too.

          So yeah, exactly the same situation as Symphony of the Night.

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