Lightning’s Story Is Truly Over, But She May Be A Guest In A Future Final Fantasy

By Cheng Kai . February 14, 2014 . 5:30pm

Event 37

Motomu Toriyama, director for Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, was in Singapore recently to promote the latest and last entry in the Final Fantasy XIII trilogy. Siliconera stopped by the launch to catch up with Toriyama.

 

Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII just came out in the West. Prior to the game’s release, the embargo on the game’s review has lifted, and views on Lightning Returns have been a mixed bag so far, with some good reviews and a few bad ones. In your opinion, what would you say might be the cause of the mixed views on the game?

 

Motomu Toriyama, Dicrector: Well, I haven’t had a chance to see those reviews yet. But, personally I think perhaps the element of a time limit in this game could have been perceived as a form of restriction on the player’s freedom. In this game, the time management system is such that the player has to constantly be on the move, and take an active stance towards increasing the time limit and managing it.

 

And if you approach the game’s time limit in a positive manner, I think players will further understand the nuances and appreciate why we chose to implement this system. Even in Japan, what we’ve noticed is that opinions on the game become more positive after some time since Lightning Returns’ initial release [after players get used to the nuances].

 

The Final Fantasy XIII saga comes to a close with this game. But with that said, do you feel that this is absolutely the last tale you’ll ever tell within this universe, or do you think you might revisit it in the future? Will we ever see Lightning in a Final Fantasy title again?

 

For Lightning, her story ends here in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, as this game is meant as a finale to this series. But we know that Lightning is an extremely popular character, even when compared to other Final Fantasy characters.

 

So there is a possibility that Lightning would appear in other future Final Fantasy titles, not as a protagonist, but as a guest character.

 

Finally (and this is with regards to the ending in Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII, so Siliconera readers, you might want to come back to this part later after you’ve completed the game), although Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII was just released in English this week, the game has been out for a while in Japan.

 

Some fans who’ve finished the Japanese version have wondering if the final scene with Lightning in this game, actually takes place in the same real-world universe that we live in.

 

[Laughs] I don’t know if we should be talking about this during the launch period of the game. But this time around, since Lightning Returns: Final Fantasy XIII is the end of this series, we’ve prepared an ending of an epic scale [for the fans who've been sticking with the FF13 series].

 

In Lightning Returns, after the story ends, we’ve prepared a little bit of an epilogue for Lightning, where… well, we can’t really go into a lot of detail, but Lightning is seen in a rural town in a world that is quite similar to our own Earth.

 

And from then on, what happens… we’d like to leave that up to the users’ imagination.


Read more stories about & & & on Siliconera.

  • Chaos_Knight

    Lightning in FFXV (and KH3).

    • safeto20scroll

      they pretty much didn’t stop to think twice about having Lightning in FFXV didnt they? :
      Well, at least I hope they make her a (not so) secret uber boss…

      • Stephen Mc Devitt

        If so, I hope Noctis will impale Lightning in a bloody fashion.

  • https://twitter.com/GaleGlory89 KiQun

    And here I’m glad the trilogy is over… Such a haunting figure.

  • BizarreJelly

    As someone who actually likes the character Lightning, I think it’s time she was put to rest – she’s had 3 games worth of screen-time, a titular role in Dissidia 012, and a whole quest line about her in Realm Returns. Time to put some focus on new characters Square-Enix.

    • Stephen Mc Devitt

      Not to mention that Lightning has none of her character in her third game. Would she really walk around like a living stove?

    • chibidw

      “As long as I’m alive, you’ll never see the last of Lightning!” – Motomu Toriyama

      • https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

        “I’ll never retire her until you say you like her!! SAY YOU LIKE HER!! SAY FINAL FANTASY XIII WASN’T A FAILURE GODDAMMIT IT’S ALL I’VE GOT, OH FUCK MY LIFE IS A WRECK” – Motomu Toriyama

        • M’iau M’iaut

          Quit adding to our problems here :P.

        • k.b.a.

          sorry i can’t say it. and 3 was one too many. and 2 too many out of the gate for a FF

    • saxophone15

      I remember hardly seeing Lightning at all in XIII-2…(not saying we need to see more, though I don’t really care if we do or not).

  • ShinStar

    Maybe she will appear in Final Fantasy Tactics 2 and her extra “Limit Break” will be called something like Lemon Blossom because Cloud’s hair is yellow colored and……he was in FFT and had an extra limit and it was called Cherry Blossom and those are pink and so is Lightning’s hair and……….and……

    …….I don’t know where I’m going with this.

    • Ferrick

      don’t give them ideas!

    • Kaetsu

      You know why I want Lightning in the next tactics? Because I want another tactics game! They should make a 3DS tactics called Final Fantasy Tactics A3DS. I’m not sure how they would do that though because cocoon(and the whole ff13 universe) isn’t in Ivalice where the tactics/ff12 games take place.

    • LightningFarron19

      She’s basically going to be in the spinnoff games that aren’t canon with the material (Dissidia, Tactics, Theaterythem, Crystal Chronicles, Kingdom Hearts, etc.)

      They already confirmed that characters like Lightning, Cloud and Squall will never cross over to other universes. Which is why we did not see any of them in such games as XIII-2 and LR.

      • KnifeAndFork

        Yet she crossed over to FF XIV ARR and FF VII and X outfits are in FF XIII LR…

        • greeeed

          14 = online game

        • http://toscanapotrebbe.tumblr.com Mark A. Duckworth

          Lightning is not part of the ARR story, though. That was an event for promoting LR.

      • RickyMack

        only one that can is gilgamesh and that’s because of FFV’s story

    • lordsofskulls

      I feel it Final Fantasy XV’s town for some odd reason. >.>

      But Final Fantasy Tactics 2 would had been awesome… I like humans in different jobs than weird creatures/animals (ds ones were kinda a let down)..

    • Altin

      The ride never ends…

    • Vitor Duarte

      HALF LIFE 3 CONFIRMED!

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Lightning will appear again for Final Fantasy XX—-30!

  • りんごタルト@エスカのアトリエ

    Squeenix, stop.

    • Godmars

      Why would they start listening now? Just because it might make sense?

      Ha!

      • Kumiko Akimoto

        Yeah why stop doing something they’ve done before she was even created lol.

  • Roberto

    A new dissidia maybe

    • http://www.youtube.com/user/xxHiryuuxx Tohsaka

      I fucking wish.

    • Kumiko Akimoto

      Hopefully

    • Kenny Loh

      Yeah, for Vita xD

    • k.b.a.

      Final Fantasy Smash

      i know i say this about LITERALLY every single franchise/developer/potato worth it’s salt. but after playing 2 dissidia’s i honestly have to ask you would you rather a third go round, or a FF only Smash?

      • Aspenharls

        A Square Enix free for all would be nice. Limiting it to just Final Fantasy is kind of lame. I want to be able to destroy Sora with Crono, while using Dragonlord as a summon.

        • k.b.a.

          it’s pointless to say this but it’d be best if the roster not got out of hand and paid equal tribute to the past titles as it did more recent entries. SaGa, Secret, Mana, Final Fantasy, Live a Live come to mind as well as front mission and Kingdom Hearts.

          but fandom is strong. kingdom hearts went comparatively south after 2 but i suggest somewhere in the universe someone still wants xenahort-riku-organization potato so whatever

    • Joseph

      They intend to do that, Roberto. We just don’t know when.

  • iamakii

    I thought lightning don’t strike the same place twice? Thrice?

    • Godmars

      Certainly hasn’t struck the first three times, as far as I’m concerned.

      • LightningFarron19

        Well, then that clearly makes you in the minority.

        • Godmars

          Yesssss…Yes it does…

    • Ric Vazquez

      My thoughts exactly dude, it should not strike a fourth time -_-

    • Happy Gamer

      Got a good LOL and clever feaver first thing in morning! Thanks man!

    • Altin

      BAZINGA!

    • Longshadow

      Three strikes, you’re out. That’s how it’s always been.

  • Lavitz

    I don’t understand the appeal for Lightning at all. I think she’s a boring character with the body of a teenage boy.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      If you think that’s a teenage body then I sure would like to know what a child body looks like.

      • Lavitz
        • DragKudo

          Looks cute to me. I would change the color though. make her look like pudding, or whatever her name is from that sega game.

        • Stephen Mc Devitt

          That is just to damn wrong! It goes against everything what lightning was before.

          • Michieie

            I like most garbs but some of them are outright disgusting. Case in point example above.

    • Kaetsu

      That’s one hot teenage boy!

    • landlock

      A teenage boy with huge breasts? You live in a screwed up world.

      • k.b.a.

        dunno if i’d say huge but i’d lose against her seven days in a row. you must live in Thailand if that’s what the teenage boys look like where you are

      • Death Metal

        She hasn’t got huge breasts.

        • landlock

          True though there quite large on the cover but you get the point.

  • Renzo-senpai

    Only Lightning? What about other characters?

    • Stephen Mc Devitt

      You forget that Toriyama is not a developer but an overgrown child.

  • Stephen Mc Devitt

    Toriyama couldn’t have this epilogue in THE GAME!? What is wrong with that man? Don’t take stuff things that build context and restrict them to light novels, drama CDs or datalogs.

    I stuck by FFXIII for years but Lightning Returns betrayed me and I now side with those who hate this stupid saga. LR’s ending is not an epic scale but a lazy attempt at impersonating a Gainax ending.

    Lightning as a guest? Just restrict her to paid DLC because at least I won’t have to waste my money on a character who I wanted to be great character but Toriyama only wanted Lightning to be a sex object.

    • Death Metal

      How is she a sex object when she isn’t even sexy IN THE LEAST? She is just plain boring, that’s her issue.

      • Stephen Mc Devitt

        She wasn’t meant to be such to begin with. Lightning was originally designed to be a cool character when XIII was announced. Aside from traits from Cloud, Lightning was made to be like a leader, not pure like Yuna or reasonable and have big jugs like Tifa.

        Lightning Returns is Toriyama’s personal fanfic with a large budget. The game can have Lightning in clothes that don’t fit her character.

  • Ferrick

    Toriyama: “Personally I think perhaps the element of a time limit in this game could have been perceived as a form of restriction on the player’s freedom.”

    yeahh no, it’s the story department that is very lacking, the time management system was so simple that i panicked more towards majora’s mask than LR, and it’s very possible to complete all main quests in the first week as well

    • Stephen Mc Devitt

      What about this coliseum/slaughterhouse? Is there still a time limit there or can you stay there as long as you want?

      • Ferrick

        the battles ? they themselves don’t have time limits, but no matter how well you do, it will decrease your time by a fixed amount, but not to the point where you would panic either

    • saxophone15

      Actually, one of the reviews I saw mentioned the time limit as a negative…but it’s possible the reviewer just didn’t know how to properly manage it.

      • Ferrick

        i notice the same reaction from easy mode players as well, i guess the “heal hp by standing still” eats alot more time than i expected ? or they’re just lost

  • surakian

    Please, I am completely okay with Lightning, but for the love of everything good in this world put her to rest. Square Enix wore us out with Cloud and now they are running Lightning to the ground. She took most of the spotlight in Dissidia 012, she’s cameo’d in XIV with her own event, she’s got three games, some novels. Close the book on her for now. Let a new character get their time.

    Don’t throw her into future FF games unless they are intentionally made to be a crossover.

    • Renzo-senpai

      I wouldn’t mind they throw in Lightning if they throw in other character as well.

  • Steven Higgins

    I suspect that SPOILERS
    The world the cast ends up in is actually the one from FFXV but centuries prior to the game itself.

    • Stephen Mc Devitt

      NO! Let XV be it’s own thing.

      • icantstandthisindecision

        Despite the fact that it was ALWAYS going to be part of the XIII series?

        • Stephen Mc Devitt

          Yeah but having LR’s ending connect to XV like that contradicts the point of each roman-numeral title if Lightning suddenly appears and takes over Noctis’ story and made everything boring.

          XV has giant summon fights and real-time combat, LR was boob physics and horrible dialogue.

          • Steven Higgins

            Like I said, XV could take place long after LR, long enough for her to have died, therefore eliminating any need for her to be seen or even mentioned. But still connecting the worlds.

          • Stephen Mc Devitt

            But it would still taint XV. Those games are not connect, just sharing a similar idea but Nomura won’t use words like “fal’Cie” and “l’Cie”. There’s also Type-0

          • Steven Higgins

            *Sigh* I’m not saying he would, Only that it would be a interesting origin story if they were the same world, there doesn’t have to be any further connection then the fact that they are the same place. Think something like the Tactics and XII, same world, but nothing else in common (save for Espers)

          • Stephen Mc Devitt

            Not this time. Knowing how most people feel about XIII’s failure to grasp the basic fundamentals in storytelling, renaming Versus XIII to XV was more than a smart move.

        • KnifeAndFork

          Davila Nova Crystallis is the theme but that is not exclusive to FF XIII

      • Steven Higgins

        Well, they’re already connected by mythology, there’s no need to mention LR in the game but the world at the end and the world of XV are both very similar to the real world.

        • surakian

          Similar. The world in LRFF’s ending is ours. FFXV is not on ours

          • DragKudo

            Has enix even told us where the setting is? Only thing i remember is that it’s based off real life places in tokyo.

          • Steven Higgins

            Actually, Toriyama would not commit to that, only saying they are similar, which can also be said of the FFXV world.

        • Stephen Mc Devitt

          Toriyama will likely say otherwise and just want to ruin Nomura’s game to just to Lightning in another game.

          I imagine Toriyama conceived the character before he joined Squaresoft.

          • Steven Higgins

            Except that it’s Nomura, not Toriyama, who makes decisions about XV,

          • Stephen Mc Devitt

            Yeah but I imagine the reason Toriyama works in Square is because one of his parents is part of a board or something.

    • icantstandthisindecision

      I’m not sure that I can say it’d be centuries, but yeah, I was thinking this too. FFXV IS part of the Fabula… whatever series. And as someone that is totally fine with Lightning I wouldn’t be surprised if she ended up as a playable character, but not the lead– one of the supporting cast members, maybe.

      Because I mean, really, there’s no way that Noctis and friends are the only playable characters for XV.

      • Ferrick

        Type-0 is part of fabula nova chrystallis, however it doesn’t have lightning, and it doesn’t need to either

        • icantstandthisindecision

          I didn’t say that it needed to, so I don’t understand why you’d mention that? Now, if I said that having Lightning in the game was something that would be a for sure thing that they needed, I’d understand why you mentioned that. But… I didn’t.

          • Ferrick

            woops, i meant to say “However Type-0 doesn’t have lightning, and XV doesn’t need to either”

          • icantstandthisindecision

            It’s all good, and I repeat that I wasn’t saying that it needed to, I was just confused. xD

          • Ferrick

            i need my coffee ;_;

      • surakian

        The FNC only share a mythos of their gods/crystal legend, not a world or universe. Type-0, XIII, and FFXV exist on their own worlds in their own universe and use the myth in their own ways.

        • icantstandthisindecision

          Yes, and XIII’s world ended at the end of Lightning Returns. Never rule something out, especially with all things considered.

          • surakian

            And they ended up on ours. Unless FFXV has continents shaped like Europe and Africa.

          • icantstandthisindecision

            “This is a fantasy based on reality,.”

            As in, I really, really wouldn’t be surprised. Actually, I think that’d be kind of cool.

          • surakian

            Because it is more like a modern world with their use of technology. I don’t think it’s Earth in FFXV, but I think this is something we can agree to disagree on.

          • icantstandthisindecision

            I was just saying I thought it would be cool, because it would be different for a video game.

            Also, as someone mentioned to you, the world in LRFF isn’t Earth either as Toriyama couldn’t commit to that. At this point it’s just “New World.”

      • Steven Higgins

        Maybe not centuries, but enough time for Lightning and her companions to have passed on and been forgotten.

        • icantstandthisindecision

          While I’d typically agree with this, that sort of ruins the idea of Lightning being able to appear in the game at all.

          • Steven Higgins

            That’s my point, this way it can be separate, yet connected. I never said she would/could/should appear, just that that’s were she may have ended up.
            Also they could still put her in a DLC like “a hero summoned from the past” or something. That way, those who want her get her and those who don’t don’t have to.

    • surakian

      1) Why would you post a spoiler?
      2) No, it isn’t. You can look at the ending and see EXACTLY where they ended up

      • Steven Higgins

        The spoiler was already posted in the article and I tried my best to hide it. but Siliconera only let me skip one line and does not have spoiler tags or text color options

        • M’iau M’iaut

          You can actually hit return and leave blank spaces until clicking more is required.

          • Steven Higgins

            I tried, I left like 15-20 lines blank but when it posted there was only one empty line. So I went back and removed them because I felt like it was a waste

    • http://LevelUpGeneration.blogspot.com/ KALiverin

      I don’t think so. I’ve seen the ending and while it kind of makes sense, FFXV’s world is still very much a fantasy world with Chocobos, Moogles and summons. They all disappear at the end of Lightning Returns, so I don’t think it connects to FFXV in that way. Besides, they’ve said that all of the games are set in different universes and the only thing that connects them is vague lore.

  • DragKudo

    I would like to see Light in KH3. Probably a new Dissidia and tatics? eh

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      Well, in the meanwhile you already have her in Dissidia 012 :V

      • DragKudo

        Yes i know that. I was jokingly asking(what?!) square enix to hurry up and make sequels to these games.

        • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

          That’s why I said in the meanwhiiiiile~
          *Also believes a Dissidian sequel may happen. SE pls dew eet!*

          • DragKudo

            Oh sorry. thought you were being a douche. I apologize for reacting like a douche.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            It’s because the “:V” right? ;_;

          • DragKudo

            Canadians…..

  • Quan Chi

    They basically just did to Lightning what they did to Aya Brea in PE3
    DX

    She even looks like Aya from PE3 :P

    • Ferrick

      subjecting all of us to watching a bath scene of a certain teen ?

      i still feel unclean from that

    • Warboss Aohd

      Lightning was an alright character in FF13 at best, then SLIGHTLY she degraded.

      Aya Brea was a FANTASTIC character, then they COMPLETELY DESTROYED HER in 3rd Birthday.

      • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

        Well technically———–Aya Brea wasn’t Aya Brea in the 3rd birthday.

        • $1392518

          Lightning becoming an emotionless after becoming Norse Jesus is the worst thing that can happen to any character

          And as for Aya in 3rd Bday, thank god later on, but thats a shitty way they did it. Though more acceptable than other situations if she was actual Aya at the end.

        • ShindoW

          Funny thing to note, they are the same actress in Japan. She voices Aerith, too.

        • Daigure

          3rd Birthday SPOILER

          Wouldn’t killing her off before the game even starts STILL count as destroying Aya?

          • Vash bane

            wait what? so that means you play as the look alike( have not finished pe2 loved the first one tho)?

          • Daigure

            It’s kinda like that, more complicated though.

          • Vash bane

            oh

            where does this happen at the end or in the middle of the game?

          • Daigure

            Before the start of the game, but it’s not actually revealed until the end. Also, there’s more to it than just Aya dying

          • Vash bane

            interesting i’m going to have to replay it because my mb had bugged out on me (was depressed because I lost a lot of saves) another question does 3rd involve time travel? and its more? now i’m more curious (seems a replay is in order and hopefully this time I can finish it)

          • Daigure

            Yeah, the third game is something like, Aya can leave her body and take over a person from the earlier time period, I don’t remember much.

        • Warboss Aohd

          true, but i would think that the character who she ACTUALLY is (which is spoilers), would at least, you know, be a better character given what’s happened to her.

          Which begs the question, why would you even bother CALLING her Aya Brea, if she’s, you know, NOT Aya Brea.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            No idea, promotion for the game prior to it’s release been calling her aya so you know why not.

  • Byas

    Square-Enix has a lot of characters that are better than Lightining in every possible way, and her games weren’t even that good or memorable. It makes me wonder why the hell she’s such a figurehead for the company now.
    It’s already past time to stop trying to force her on others, S-E.

    • d19xx

      She’s basically John Cena…

      • alixraen

        I would pay good money to see Lightning vs. Cena in a cage match.

        EDIT: I guess I’m the only one who would want to see Cena win that matchup o-o

        • http://www.ihasnowebsitez.com Satonaka CP-Four

          I’d pay to see them both lose, double disqualification, no future title shot for either XD

        • Altin

          Cena will tap out to a headlock, just like in Wrestlemania against Orton.

        • Rake

          Lightning: *Uses Army Of One.*
          Cena: *Staggered*
          Lightning: *Goes for the pin.*
          Cena: *Kicks out at two*

          I CAN SEE IT HAPPENING LIKE OMG.

      • Uso Ewin

        100 buck that Lightning will turn heel before Cena does.

        • leingod

          Who’s Cena? Is she in any FF game?

      • Alexander Marquis Starkey

        Cena actually has some character, and for everyone of his haters, there are non fans of his willing to admit that they see why he is the face of the WWE…plus he can actually sell a ppv, bring in revenue and work a decent match to pretty damn good match. After people got fed up with Lightning the first time(after the first game) interest in the XIII line started to decline…though that’s more an issue of the game itself.

  • Yuuki

    I love Lightning,the more Lightning the better!!

  • Tenabrus

    It’s getting clearer and clearer that Lightning’s going to pop up in 15, the universes were meant to be shared when it was under the Fabula Nova chrystalis project, and it was Versus XIII, this is what they’re clearly setting up for.

    • http://www.ihasnowebsitez.com Satonaka CP-Four

      Ugh I hope not, but then again, we’re not the ‘target auduience.’

      She’s gonna show up in 15 1 way or another whether we like it or not.

      I’m in the ‘not’ pile here >:/

  • ffboi7

    FFXV cameo confirmed! Dress Noctis up like Lightning lol

    • harmonyworld

      one could only wish *_*

      • Ferrick

        why would you wish such?

        • harmonyworld

          no reason :3

          • Vash bane

            which outfit XD?

          • Ferrick

            >_>
            <_<
            Nightmare outfit

          • Vash bane

            interesting choice

    • Spicydicey

      Well they do look similar…
      http://www.videogameszone.de/screenshots/1280×1024/2008/01/ffxiiiv8.jpg
      Plus I bet they have the same riveting personality.

      • Michieie

        Nomura stated Noctis is actually a nice guy, just that he leans on the shy side and believes he has to act serious because royalty.

  • ShadowDivz

    No new Lightning game after returns. But i’d sure as hell buy some DLC of one of my favorite female characters.

    *FAKE COUGH* LIGHTNING IN FINAL FANTASY 15 PLZ *FAKE COUGH*

    • KnifeAndFork

      No

  • Vash bane

    I heard of that spoiler but never looked at it lol glad I never paid close attention to topics in forums.

  • Karysonson

    Isnt Lightning technically the goddess of death now? If she is a god……then wouldn’t that mean she wont die?

    • Steven Higgins

      I think that, when Nova Chrysalia ended, she went back to being human though I’m not 100% sure.

      • OathkeeperSoraXIII

        Yeah this. When Bhuni was defeated and they’re all reborn into the new world they’re reverted back to how they would be normally. Such as Hope would’ve been reborn into his adult version and Lightning would’ve been reborn as human.

        • $1392518

          Is it ironic that in the world of a series so polarizing and the company seems so oddly dedicated to amend, ends with abandoning it all together?

        • DragKudo

          Are you goumadeken?

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            What’s that?

    • DragKudo

      I was thinking that too the picture of the goddess in the XV trailer kind of looks like lightning.

  • Kroz

    Before it was Cloud that was everywhere and the one that was milked, which was fine cause he was a better character at least. Lightning is finally done yet oddly it feels like this was longer than Cloud. I wonder who the next “face of Final Fantasy” will be.

    • Steven Higgins

      I’m hoping for Noctis

    • DragKudo

      A movie, and a prequel in which he appeared toward the end of the game.. Cloud was not milked. Neither was lightning. Three games and two guest appearances is not milking. Four different versions of the same game is milking cough street fighter cough

      • Testsubject909

        You forgot the sequel in Dirge of Cerberus and his cameo appearances in other games like Kingdom Heart and Ergheiz god bless the ring. As well as his involvement in Dissidia and Duodecim.

        He also appeared in Final Fantasy Tactics.

        Cloud was used as a marketing tool for a bit.

        • Testsubject909

          Or at least as a neat little extra.

          Though I’d argue his best guest appearances is in Ergheiz where he’s fun to play with or in Final Fantasy Tactics. Long before the fans views of his character and Advent Children altered his personality to the eternally brooding semi-homo-erotically sephiroth obsessed Cloud that most people nowadays would most likely think of him.

        • Guest

          I didn’t forgot. DOC was the same as CC barely in the game to be milked, Still wasn’t milked.

          • Testsubject909

            Oh. I’m not saying he was milked, well more specifically milked to death.

            But Cloud’s popularity was certainly utilized every now and again.

    • $1392518

      Individually Cloud and Squall are worse Lightning. The only reason why the seem better is that their supporting cast isnt a jumbled mess.

      stotic characters are all terrible in their own way, but I never recall a situation where cloud or squall made think any higher of them before. While Lightning suprised me on how much of a good person she can be. Main issue is Hillis’s portrayal of her is superstiff and monotone throughout, except when she’s angry.

      • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

        Yeah, cause Cloud and Squall were such meanies punching everyone and always being ultra angry!

        • OathkeeperSoraXIII

          Well Cloud did smack Tifa…

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Really? I don’t remember that.

            Although I kind of remember him hitting Aerith on the Temple of the Ancients although Im not sure if that was cause Sephiroth’s influence.

            Anyways, at least it was because Cloud was having a breakdown unlike Lightning being plain mean to her party members I think.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            Wait nope. You’re right it was Aerith, got my wires crossed! >.< Yeah he was under the influence of Sephiroth, my point still stands that Cloud hit Aerith :P. I wouldn't really say she was 'mean', she just has a hard times controlling her emotions when it comes to Serah. Everyone else let's out their anger differently I suppose. She can be surprisingly funny when she's with Hope. A lot of her comedy is through sarcasm. It shows even more so in LR since she gets the chance to interact with more people.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Well, hitting others because she’s overly sentitive technically makes her a bully and I don’t like bullies :V

            If I had the strenght to fight back I’d slap her one to make her come back to her senses!

            As for LR *scratch head* didn’t played it so I dunno lol.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            A bully? Wouldn’t really say that, she slaps Fang because Fang basically admitted that everything that happened to her sister was down to her and Vanille. And she hits Snow because she believes her sister is dead and doesn’t want to talk about it, but Snow keeps cramming it in her face that she’s alive, and of course her development and relation with Snow takes off from there. Bullies are people that overpower and degrade others to get what they want. That’s not Lightning lol.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Bullies are also people that retaliate on other people their personal frustrations, kinda like Lightning.

            Hmm I still don’t find her behaviour all that justifiable but I suppose it’s just me not finding Lightning likable for me, if other do then I guess it’s alright but I don’t think she’s any better or worse than Cloud or Squall although that’s Zal’s viewpoint, I dunno you lol.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            I’ve only ever seen that kinda ‘bully’ when they took out their own frustrations to make themselves feel superior/ to get attention. neither of which Lightning was after, she just didn’t want to talk about her ‘dead’ sister. Everyone deals with grief differently, aggression is a pretty common one. That doesn’t make her a bully though. I guess we’ll have to agree to disagree here :)

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢
          • Testsubject909

            I prefer to think that she hits Snow because Snow is an idiot.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            Lmao. He definitely is at the start, christ. i hated him with a passion. But grew to really like his character by the end

          • Testsubject909

            I dno… I’ve looked at everything he’s done in the story.

            He might’ve had some good meaning ideas, but in the end, I can’t help but think everyone of his actions only escalated it for the worst and the only reason it all ended up okay was because the story dictated that there must be a happy ending…

            With a floating sphere city crashing at terminal velocity unto a crystal spike that ultimately most likely completely shifted the entire center of gravity of the city itself thus causing untold damages and casualties.

            Happy ending…

          • Testsubject909

            Said crashing of the city and whatnot which only happened because the main characters pretty much wandered aimlessly until they decided to do exactly what the villain kept asking them to do while at the same time asking the villain what it is the villain wants, spouting the hero never loses and never needs a plan but only needs to rush forward and attack head on without thinking at a god like entity who keeps on pleading to the group to euthanize it for the purpose of destroying the world and who got saved in the end by the power of friendship which magically for no reason whatsoever deus ex cures them which in turn means said Sword of Damocles tension that was attempted to being built was ultimately pointless.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            Well he and Vanille were the optimists. It soon affects Hope and he becomes optimistic. Then everyone else does. That’s not to say he didn’t go through a depressing patch in the game though. But Lightning pulled him out of it. The whole ‘hero’ thing is a mask to hide behind. ‘Say it enough times and maybe he’ll believe it himself’. That kinda thing. It took me a while to catch on it as well (I think it’s actually mentioned in the game when Light and Snow have a talk)

            Lightning said from the beginning that she was going to topple the sanctum and bring down Orphan. It might seem like it was Barthandelus’s idea, because he always banged on about it. But Lightning states like 3-4 hours into the game that that’s what she was after. Vanille and Sazh try to run from their fate, but can’t, so then they decide the only way to defy their fate is to tackle it head on. Snow’s optimistic attitude rubs off on everyone. I don’t think you get the ending. It doesn’t crash into a spiky pillar, it takes on a liquid form and embraces the planet before finally solidifying holding it in place. It was said multiple times that Fang became Ragnarok before and then Etro reverted her back and turned her and Vanille to crystal so I don’t see why she couldn’t turn to Ragnarok again to save it? It’s not like it came out of no where. It’s no different then when Fal’Cie Anima died and turned the whole lake to crystal, it was just on a much larger scale this time.

          • Testsubject909

            Just because she hardheadedly aims for a goal and never deviates from it doesn’t mean it makes her admirable for it.

            Let’s say, you vow revenge on a being for his actions, but eventually learn that killing said person would mean the downfall of the civilized world, there would be rioting on the streets, murder, genocide, and all of the worst of humanity would come out, your action would cause hundreds of thousands of neo-nazis to come out of the woodworks and start a new regime that would most likely completely alter the face of the earth and plunge it into a third world war.

            But that if you left the guy alone, the worst that would happen is he’d ruin your life and your life alone while the rest of the world would continue to know peace.

            And you know, that unless some deus ex machina comes to save you, continuing on with your plan of vengeance would also mean your ultimate demise while simultaneously plunging the world into a certain third world war of which there is no debate upon it happening if you do what you plan to do.

            Does doing it make you a better person? Does doing it make you a more compelling or interesting protagonist? Does it show your strength of will to follow through? Or are you just being an idiot, selfish or cowardly?

          • Testsubject909

            And her becoming Ragnarok did kinda come out of nowhere. The whole healing from being crystal thing also did kinda come out of nowhere.

            Actually this game is a whole lot of “this just came outta nowhere”.

            Even the Fal’cie’s plan of genocide just kinda came out of nowhere… Oh I know it’s based on a text written by a human but that’s pretty much just kinda outta nowhere with no real basis.

            And I don’t think you understand exactly the ramifications here.

            Take Final Fantasy 6. A game where the world was ruined, absolutely ruined, it accepted that fact and hope continued to exist, despite the many deaths and tragedy the world began to heal and begin to live anew at the end.

            Final Fantasy 13 ends with an entire city crashing from the sky at terminal velocity. I don’t care if your “crystal gently embraced the city”. The fact of the matter is, the entire populace of that city went skydiving just like the main characters but had no access to any technology, unless they were military or black market dealers, to what could make them safely land.

            Even if it got coddled by the crystal flowery vein at the end. It’s still untold damages and a lot of people perishing.

            You cannot sweep that away by just focusing on the main characters being alive and happy. The end result is much like FF6. The world was ruined. Lives were taken. People died. The cities they live in is now horribly broken. Fires must have erupted, people must’ve gotten disfigured.

            Am I thinking too much about it? Sure. But if an older game like FF4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9 and 10 can have the balls to accept those horrible consequences and take them into the story.

            Then there’s no excusing FF13 for trying to hand wave it away.

          • OathkeeperSoraXIII

            If Ragnarok was never hinted at I could agree it came out of nowhere but there’s a whole parade based on the events of Ragnarok, then fang said she was originally the l’Cie that turned into Ragnarok, It’s later explained how a l’Cie turns into Ragnarok, then Fang turns into Ragnarok again and one more time but fusing Vanille’s power with her own. The game hints at a being called Ragnarok, the game tells you of a person that once became Ragnarok, the game then tells you how a l’Cie can become Ragnarok. So I’m not sure how it came out of nowhere, when the game shoves it in your face and tells you. Not sure what you mean by healing by being crystal. Don’t remember anyone healing by being crystal

            We’re talking different universes here. You make it out as if XIII has no darkness to the game whatsoever when a whole city started getting slaughtered, as a means to lure out the l’Cie. And people were forced onto a train only to learn that they were actually going to be killed. And many did die along the way. Gran Pulse was meant to represent freedom. Did you not explore Gran Pulse? There’s destroyed ruins, and villages that are over run by Cie’th that used to be people. To show what the War of Transgression did to the world

            These are meant to be fantasy games, if your idea of fantasy doesn’t go with XIII’s idea then that’s cool, each series is meant to reinvent itself and tell a new story. Maybe I’m just more open minded when I play FF games instead of already having a preconception of how I want things to look like.

  • Alestaos

    I was and still am i guess one of those people that said Lost Odyssey was what FF13 should of been and that it was a true FF. After playing Bravely Defualt for some months (EU) i think square is heading in the right direction. Especially lately with FF14 ARR, i enjoyed Lightning as a different female character than were usually given by Square. As in she was the badass hero but they forgot to give her true emotion as well. But right step in a female being the lead in the number roles (i know other games had Terra Yuna etc – but not to the degree of Lightning in the end a man still stared in them).

    I do hope she makes a return in something like a ps3/4/vita dissida. They were awesome games and her cameo in KH but for now just let her rest and let fans of FF rest from all the 13 stuff so we can get hyped for there new non smartphone games ;-)

  • Lloyd Christmas

    I can’t help but picture the folks over at Square being delusional when it comes to Lightning’s “popularity”… but who knows, maybe things are different over in Japan and she IS actually popular.

    • Sean ‘Geg’ Reddie

      She remains to be incredibly popular in Japan I’ve heard. But she’s more popular than you think, I know tons of people personally that adore her.

      • $1392518

        Maaya Sakamoto does a much better job portraying her than Ali Hillis.

        My only exposure is an import copy of Dissidia 012 and the jap demo of LR, you’ll notice alot more emotion in her japanese voice more so than English

        • DCBlackbird

          Personally I think Japanese dialogue comes off as so hyperbolic that I can’t really take it seriously some times in either language.

          • KnifeAndFork

            They need better writers plain and simple

          • $1392518

            I can’t even remember a localized SE game having a story that was more than “Okay”..

            I currently have low expectations for now and the future. I haven’t gone too far in Bravely Default in order to judge it yet, and I’m hearing how the Story of Drakengard 3 is the best out of the series (which doesn’t mean too much), but i can’t expect much anymore from square..

        • https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

          Yeah I’m sure Lightning’s paper-thin characterization and godawful dialogue were just a result of faulty localization. That must be it.

          • $1392518

            never said anything about her character/dialogue being good, just that the JapVA is much better.

            You can have 2 actors try out a Shitty character, but one actor will still be better than the other.:/

      • Duo Maxwell

        I also know a tons of people who hate any appearance of her, and look at the sale of the 3rd game, I think people already got sick of her already.

        Heck, not that many people did her quest line in FFXIV ARR either, and I’m playing in Tonberry, a JP server.

      • KnifeAndFork

        Yeah “so popular” her latest game can’t even break 400k there in Japan

        • OathkeeperSoraXIII
        • Altin

          And even if, 400k for a FF title is incredibly underwhelming.

          • DivinePhoenix69

            Not every FF title needs to sell 10 million+ to be considered successful you know.

          • Altin

            There’s a first time for everything.

            And according to Square Enix, trust me, reaching 10 Million is a bare minimum if you ever followed their statements for several other games. The only reason that rockbottom sales for XIII-2 and LR are not that much discussed is because the development costs for each game were way cheaper due to using similiar resources.

        • Tinye

          She is popular, there was a poll out of all the female protagonists in the FF series, she ranked 2nd behind Yuna from FFX.
          Just because you don’t like her doesn’t mean she’s not popular

          • http://uglylarvas.tumbrl.com/ Kanimir

            She ranked that high because it’s the newest FF game. Ask the same question in 10 years and she wont make it to top 10.

          • Tinye

            We’re not talking about 10 years, we’re talking about now. Your argument is invalid because you’re considering you know the future which you obviously do not. Not to mention she is 4 years old, that’s not really new in gaming years.

        • DivinePhoenix69

          You’re forgetting that most direct sequels almost never sell as well as their predecessors, Tales Of Xillia 2, FFX-2, and DOTNW are good examples of this. Even then 400k isn’t bad AT ALL considering it’s a sequel to a sequel of another game.

          • Testsubject909

            I now need to look at the sales numbers for Shadow Hearts and Shadow Hearts Covenant…

        • Wappuli

          FF13 -saga isn’t really liked there either, but Lightning herself is still a popular character there.

      • Michieie

        Japan adores Light, man. Aerith comes second, which is funny because both share VA.

    • https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

      They’re not kidding anyone, least of all themselves: all the FF13 sequel business exists for the sole purpose of exploiting brand recognition to recoup the ridiculous amount of cash they blew on the original game’s engine over the course of its long, bloated, wasteful dev cycle. Only Motomu Toriyama seems to be able to delude himself, barely, into thinking that Lightning or FF13 have a true following outside of the steadfast core of mouthbreathing fans who will throw their money at any Final Fantasy-branded game with glittery sparkles and Tetsuya Nomura designs.

  • Warboss Aohd

    why can’t Sazh be in future games instead?

    • delmar

      Because in japan, like with many cultures, racism runs rampant. And toriyama rather make his characters look awkwardly sexualized rather than focus on a decent story.

      • Warboss Aohd

        so THAT’S why Toriyama hates Sazh so much.

        He was THE ONLY well written character in FF13.

        • Spicydicey

          Playing FF13 again recently, I heard a couple of really cool lines from Sazh, only to have Vanille spout some cheesy crap. Which begs the question- why is he written so much better than everyone else?
          Either his voice actor is more talented, or the writers purposefully writ everyone else worse.
          It don’t make sense!

          • Scourge626

            I can tell you how he was a well written character. He was easy to relate to. He was down to earth and realistic. He even thought about giving himself up and killing himself because he was tired of fighting and running not to mention he, allegedly, lost his forever. He also grew as a character aside from the “earn the eidolon” phase they all go through. As to why he was written better, maybe because the writers held no ambition to make him a great character. The other characters all felt like they were forced to be the way they are for the convenience of the story. This made them hard to relate to and hard to like while Sazh was allowed to write himself.

          • Warboss Aohd

            irony is beautiful thing sometimes.

    • http://epiclyamazing.wordpress.com/ AzureNova

      You know the answer to that already XD

    • DragKudo

      Sazh already found his happiness.

  • Nice Boat Quatro

    Stella: There is something I have to tell you Noctis.
    Noctis: What is it?
    Stella: My real name is not Stella. I am Claire, *removes yellow wig* also known as Lightning

    Noctis: ….

    http://static3.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20110921161317/finalfantasy/images/8/89/Noctis_10.jpg

    Noctis: I’m done. I’m leaving.

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      Riku: Are you… Master Aqua?
      Lightning: Yes I am.
      Mickey: Hmm… pretty sure Aqua had blue hair.
      Lightning: The color of my hair died after 10 long years.
      Riku: Seems legit.
      Sora: C’mon, let’s go!
      *Behind the rocks*
      Aqua: HMMMPH!! MMMPH!! (Bitch is an impostor! Get me outta here! I need human contact!! TT______TT)

      • Aspenharls

        I just had a terrible image in my head, of Lightning appearing in a Chrono Trigger reboot, and Magus mistaking her for Schala.

        • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

          As if Square will ever do something again for the Chrono series, ahahaha!

          Ha ha… ha…. ;__;

          • Testsubject909

            It’d still be better then Breath of Fire 6….

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            … you think? I can see Square turning the next Chrono sequel into a real cheap mobile game.

            *slaps own mouth*
            Dear lord, do not allow that to happen.

          • Testsubject909

            a real cheap mobile game? You’ve got high hopes there.

            Now. a real crappy and overpriced mobile game…

        • Testsubject909

          Nah, they’re pretty much done with Chrono Trigger and by the time they’d make another one, they wouldn’t do something like that.

    • Spicydicey

      Lightning was a bore, so good thing we’re can look forward to a really charismatic and interesting protagonist for the next Final Fantasy!

      Oh.

  • Souji Tendou

    “But we know that Lightning is an extremely popular character, even when compared to other Final Fantasy characters.”

    Hahahahahahahahaha, oh…. really now?

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      I wonder how are things in Japan, heard she was voted as number one female lead on an official (?) poll.

      • KnifeAndFork

        A poll made by S-E that seemed rigged

        • saxophone15

          I doubt it was rigged. I can see Lightning being popular in Japan…especially since she’s voiced by Maaya Sakamoto.

  • Kumiko Akimoto

    Whattttt? I didn’t know they would bring a popular ff character make for later games that’s crazy.

    • Godmars

      Except that she was never popular.

      Or rather, Square never gave her the opportunity to earn her popularity. When they first started promoting the game they were saying how she was going to be the new Cloud, when Cloud *DID* things which gained him attention.

      • Kumiko Akimoto

        Yes because Cloud doesn’t get the same amount of hate if not more then lightning does to this day because of things he did.
        She’s popular just get over it some people actually like her.

        • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

          Well… Cloud gained more popularity when he was a likeable character before the whole compilation thing happened, just saiyan.

          • Kumiko Akimoto

            cloud has always had the same popularity and hate

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Not really.

            I mean I guess he had purists behind his back hating on him back on his debut but overall he was a well accepted hero that had that cool “not give a fuck” attitude that boosted Final Fantasy’s popularity.

            But then when the compilation hapenned and VII got more popular things kinda split. Some people found him still uh… somewhat… appealing (I dunno) but others reaaaallly hated his new characterization and how he was being put almost everywhere same as how Lightning is being treated now.

          • delmar

            I blame kingdom Hearts for majority of this despite loving the game itself. That’s where is all started.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Yeah, it was then when Nomura thought “We should make Cloud dorker!”
            Cloud: Im in the dorkness. OMG Im a tortured soul, get out.

        • delmar

          FFVII was a whole other animal compared to XIII. That game despite whatever outlook you have on that installment really put the franchise on the map. And in fairness Cloud or any of his incarnations didn’t start to appear all over the place until after 2002, 5 years after VII release, unlike XIII which was immediate and unsuspecting, considering XII and X weren’t treated in the same manner.

  • Rafael Martines

    She could appears in Kingdom Hearts III as a guest or side mission alongside Caius :D

  • Masa

    popular character……lol

  • pokeslob

    I essentially hated lightning until this game, with that said, I think she’s more likable now, but i’m still tired of here being the final fantasy mascot. it’s time for some new characters

    • Morningstar

      Like Noctis?

      • http://www.ihasnowebsitez.com Satonaka CP-Four

        Hell yes, he’ll do :O

      • Warboss Aohd

        at this point, and i believe i speak for a great number of people in this case, I’d take almost anyone over her.

  • Spirit Macardi

    Honestly I thought her sister Serah was a FAR better character. It helps that she was voiced by Laura Bailey, who’s always awesome, but I just found myself caring about her so much more. She had a very likable and even funny personality (the scene where she yelled at a group of Flans nearly floored me), and she did what was right even though she knew it could (and did) end up costing her life.

    Lightning meanwhile… In her debut she acted like a constant bitch, showed zero regard for others, and went along with everything the main villain said which nearly resulted in the destruction of everything if it weren’t for a last-minute deus ex machina.

    I honestly feel bad for Serah, knowing she had such a horrible person as an older sibling. And yet the poor girl STILL loved her! She’s the true hero out of the two.

    (awww, clearly some fanboys got butthurt and decided to downvote me instead of trying to refute my points x3)

    • delmar

      My only gripe was her character design. actually all of XIII-2 &3. Those were some interesting choices Square. It’s almost like they were Amano inspired with their complexity yet completely disregarding any general themes or you know stylization just really going with a mish mash o crap style.

    • Longshadow

      Well, Serah was nothing more than a MacGuffin in FFXIII. She wasn’t really a character at all (in the sense of having an arc). Unfortunately, I can’t comment on her development in FFXIII-2, as I was unable to complete it.

      Bitchiness and lack of compassion doesn’t necessarily detract from Lightning’s character. As a counter-example, Charles Kane of Citizen Kane is a nasty person over the course of the movie, and that’s an important part of his character development. As for the deus ex machina, well, that’s more about the plot than Lightning.

  • Sergio Briceño

    O wonder if she was actually popular in Japan.

  • Oscar Alberto Abrego Suarez

    Of course she will be the ultimate bonus boss in FFXV. And while at it she will be referenced as the FFXV world Goddess.

  • Heath Bunch

    Siliconera! Shame on you for not slapping this man silly!

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Have you lost your mind?

      • Heath Bunch

        An entire generation of Lightning. Yes, I believe I have!

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          I wasn’t kidding. How old are you? Christ.

          • Heath Bunch

            Old enough to remember that there is more to (was?) Final Fantasy than Lightning. Old enough to remember when the Mana series was actually good. Old enough to remember all the memorable IPs Square has abandoned throughout the years. Old enough to remember a time when an upcoming announcement from them was something to be excited about, without having to worry about it being something like a mobile Star Ocean card game or All the Bravest….

          • DCBlackbird

            Key words “IP” Square has always been a business, not a passionate envoy of video game art. Businesses want to be noticed so what do they do? Choose a representative: Cloud Strife. In order to keep appearances they give them a new coat. After a long tenure they choose another: Lightning. Don’t let your nostalgia be confused for a tome of truths.

  • DivinePhoenix69

    I honestly don’t understand the hate for Lightning and this saga at all. Sure it’s not my favorite FF title and i don’t agree with some of the design choices they made for the saga but it’s not terrible at all. I get the feeling that the people who claim it’s the “worse game of all time” haven’t actually played a truly terrible/nearly unplayable game. If people truly don’t like the saga then that’s fine to each their own, but honestly now at this point people are trashing it just for the sake of trashing it like it’s the cool thing to hate on now.

    With that said as a longtime FF fan i consider the XIII saga to be a welcome addition to the FF series despite it’s flaws and all the negativity it has received. I look forward to what SE has in store for us when XV finally comes out(soon hopefully lol).

    • DragKudo
    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      Coz it’s not anything like the 8-bit, man looking, medieval/steampunk, turnbased game of my chiildhood!

    • Pyrofrost

      It’s a shame that the best post in this thread has so few “up-votes.”

    • KnifeAndFork

      Pretty sure people hate it because it has a horribly told story half of which is stuck in data logs and the other ripped from Shin Megami Tensei Digital Devil Saga, has a dull and cringeworthy dull cast, Vanille’s voice actor made people’s ears bleed, the first 20 hours of the game was a tutorial, it was obnoxiously linear, no towns, NPCs ignore you, Crystarium was a failed sphere grid which you were locked from progressing at times, battle system was anything but strategic (rinse and repeat strike till stagger) and you only really controlled one character who if died, was game over.
      Never mind the sequel was an ass pull that recommend anything that happened in the first and the sequel after that also basically made anything you did in FF XIII-2 pointless…

      • DivinePhoenix69

        Even then most of those complaints are subjective at best, and some are honestly blown way out of proportion. While i do agree with some of those issues it still didn’t stop me for enjoying the games, but hey different strokes for different folks i guess.

        • Testsubject909

          Subjective? Partially. But everything can be quantified to an objective point at which we can determine it’s quality, by simple storytelling techniques, pacing, structure as well as the depth, complexity, streamlined ease of use and involving characteristics of gameplay elements.

          The sad truth is. FF13 is one of those games that serves more as an exercise in learning what mistakes to avoid.

      • Spicydicey

        I think the battle system was pretty excellent, one of the series’ best. Agree with much of what you said though.

    • LightZero

      I agree some people probably haven’t played many games if they think FFXIII is the worst game ever. Hell Superman 64 alone disprove this claim.

      • Alex

        The worst game in the world?

        ET, hands down lol.

        • Testsubject909

          Ah. The archetypical this game was the final drop that caused the video game industry to crash sorta deal.

  • Byron Kerrison II

    Lightning: “I will never be a memory…”

    • delmar
      • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

        *tears come off from my ears*

      • Nice Boat Quatro

        Gotta love that Devil May Cry vocalist

    • 3PointDecoupage

      Well…never a positive one.

  • NANAandLIZZYfanatic

    I seriously can’t comprehend how anyone can like Lightning. I actually like the XIII saga quite a bit, but I loathe everything about Lightning.
    I love most of the relatively major characters from the saga, but yeah I don’t get how so many ppl like Lightning so much…

    Edit: But then again I like Tidus and Hope and most ppl hate them so w/e.

  • https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

    Oh phew, for a second there I thought we might finally be able to put FF13 and Toriyama’s contributions to the FF franchise behind us for good.

  • JSYK

    I really like Lightning but yes, 3 games is enough. She’ll probably appear on Kingdom Hearts though… Or Sazh. Or both of them. I don’t mind. So long as guest characters stick to being “guests”.

    • Spicydicey

      Eh? A brown character in Kingdom Hearts who isn’t the root of all evil??

      • Warboss Aohd

        oh Lord, i didn’t even think of that.

        • Spicydicey

          It’s hard to unsee :(

      • JSYK

        Well played sir. Well played.

  • M’iau M’iaut

    Congratulations — this thread has earned a group warning. End the stupidido stuff please.

    • k.b.a.

      …no?

      • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

        Don’t be a dick.,

        • k.b.a.

          …ok?

  • SerendipityX

    Wow, I’m totally okay with this. I imagine that she and everyone will be mentioned in the FFXV mythos and she could be some sort post-side-boss. That would be cool (and I guess make all the Light haters happy too?)

    • alixraen

      Why would it make the haters happy that she gets more screentime in a game that she has nothing to do with?

      • Nightmare637

        so you can beat her up?

  • GuyAlpha

    Not really surprising since she ended up getting three games (and how much Toriyama loves Lightning). I personally think that Lightning is a pretty bland character but I’m sure that’s just me.

    • alixraen

      It’s not just you, believe me.

    • Saifer Emmerich

      No, it’s just Lightning. She’s blander than rice cakes.

    • Ric Vazquez

      There is a whole legion of people who think that trust me.

    • Eric

      She’s no more bland than Squall or Cloud from FF, honestly.

      • Invisbin

        I agree. She has that attitude, reason, and resolve just like the other characters. She just gets the crap because she isn’t the staple happy go lucky protagonist everyone wants the main character to be.

        • Tinye

          Finally someone with an insightful/enlightening comment on and about Lightning/XIII

        • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

          The only main characters I found kind of bland were the ones for FF III.

          • Testsubject909

            Wasn’t it because they were pretty much like the characters of FF1? Completely nameless and lacking of any personality (until the DS remake)?

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Even with the Ds remakes I couldn’t find them any different from each other and yes, the FF I characters were also bland but I did have fun with FF I regardless.

          • Testsubject909

            Never did finish FF3 actually. I should get around to that… Once I’m done with more interesting games.

            I guess it doesn’t help that after about ten hours of gameplay, you feel like you’ve got the majority of the game outside of just breaking it outright with all the phat loot and big late game skills.

            Onion Knight from Dissidia has more personality then all the DS remake characters combined.

          • Testsubject909

            By the way, just in case. This is specifically talking about Final Fantasy 3, not Final Fantasy 6.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Didn’t finish III either, got quickly bored after some hours.

            Onion Knight from Dissidia did have more personality but uh… he was quite annoyance for me and was my punching bag until Vaan joined the roster in 012.

          • Testsubject909

            My punching bag has always been Tidus or Sephiroth.

            Also, quite sad that they couldn’t get Terra right.

          • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

            Now imagine all of Tidus’s battle quotes reemplaced with “HAHAHAHAHAHAHA”.

            Yep, Terra was too much of a scaredy cat in Dissidia.

          • Testsubject909

            Which she wasn’t. She was reluctant to fight, which made sense since in the world where she lived she was a half-breed esper who went completely berserk and who committed many acts of cruelty in a war where she was used as a tool specifically due to her immense powers.

            But she was always brave and protected those dear to her and fought fiercely.

            The Terra in Dissidia’s just a oh help me any male characters. What? I’m alone? Run away. RUN AWAY!

          • Spicydicey

            Good thing you’ve said that. I’ve never played FF6 but if Terra is anything like she is in Dissidia… My God, I hated her….

          • Invisbin

            And I completely agree. They felt like random npcs.

          • Testsubject909

            The fact that they’re completely interchangeable and capable of switching between any classes for any needs really makes them pretty much random NPCs.

          • Uso Ewin

            In the DS remake they at least had lines

      • Scourge626

        Cloud became bland after Final Fantasy VII. If you play the game then go to Kingdom Hearts and Advent Children, you’ll notice a change in his character from the first title to the second two. Squall was bland from jump street though. And having a bland character isn’t bad as long as they change by the end of the story. Lightning…well she warms up to people but her overall demeanor and outlook on life don’t stray far from how she started.

        • Eric

          Cloud was actually the basis for Lightning’s character. The developers were essentially quoted saying that they wanted to make a sort of “female cloud.”

          Honestly they start off exactly the same. If you ask me though Lightning has more character development in FF 13 than cloud in FF 7. She grows great concern for her l’cie friends as she travels with them and learns to sympathize with them. She’ll make jokes, and she is more realistic than cloud. Cloud was always a stick in the mud to be honest. Pre and and even post-aerith death.

          • Scourge626

            I would disagree. Given their situations, it’s hard to say how a person would grow but Cloud felt like he had more of a natural progression while Lightning’s progression felt contrived. And the main reason to that is despite how much they tried to force Lightning to grow they wanted her to remain the same taciturn, stoic, badass that she was in the beginning.

          • Tinye

            I agree with you Eric, not even knowing that fact about the basis of Lightning, I can see that she is basically a Female Cloud but with more development and by development I mean maturity. Lightning started out as cynical, as you say, but she grew. She admitted her faults and moved on to fix them but at the same time she remained and acted in her 20′s just as a normal person would.

            I read all the datalog story in FFXIII and it really helped understand the characters development more. Maybe not everyone did so that’s why it’s hard to see her development. That on screen writing just gave another perspective for my brain.

          • Eric

            I’m glad to see you agree :) I read all the datalog too. I felt like I would be missing out if I didn’t. There are a lot of tidbits that you wouldn’t otherwise see.

            I really completely agree with you on the whole Lightning was more like a normal person. More believeable/realistic.

      • Spicydicey

        Woah, let’s not go crazy!

      • https://twitter.com/Ni_Go_Zero_Ichi Project 2501

        But… Cloud and even Squall had actual personalities. They weren’t just genderswapped caricatures of other characters thrown into a bunch of random situations.

        • Eric

          I think Lightning had personality as well. I don’t like to talk about the sequels to 13, but the original was very respectable in terms of story telling and development. The sequels threw all those strengths out of the window.

          I think Lightning had more character than both of them simply, because she interacted more with the people around her than the other two did. She talked more, she did more on screen. Her resolve was easy to see and so was her concern (for Hope and her sister.)

          Final Fantasy 8 was my favorite final fantasy and maybe even game period, but Squall’s character was simple and a little cliche. Tough guy squall does things for himself; cold heart gets melted by a girl who’s the walking embodiment of sunshine. Same thing with Cloud.

  • http://radiantloki.blogspot.com/ Mark Dinh

    Wooo… yea…. I’ll just wait for the huge price drop like the previous entries.
    Wouldn’t mind Hope as a guest character.

  • Kenny Loh

    lol, don’t know why peoples hating Lightning to being cameo, it was okay to me, as long as the game is not written by Toriyama lol

    • Lordshade

      I guess FFVII, X, and X-2 suck now, since Toriyama was involved with them as well. And he was hardly the only writer.
      This project doesn’t have as many newbies to the series as some people think..

  • 無尽合体ブランタコブスキ

    Why did I laugh so hard?

  • Shippoyasha

    So she is said to only star as a cameo and people lose their marbles over it? I just don’t understand the controversy over this one. I think Lightning herself was a cool character even if the story of the trilogy was quite a hodgepodge. But hey, future games won’t even center around her. So it’s kind of moot to worry about her impact in future games.

    • DyLaN

      Bandwagon hate, what can you do…..

    • 3PointDecoupage

      You say that now. Watch them replace Goofy with her in KH3.
      Every negative comment about her is necessary. These people are delusional enough to think shes popular.

      • Scourge626

        She’s popular in Japan. That’s likely where they are drawing this statement from. She has mixed appeal in the West though. Gotta admit though, the attachment this guy has for Lightning is unsettling.

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      Well, I personally don’t like it because Final Fantasy never had direct cameos with each other with probably the only exception being iconic side enemies like Gilgamesh.

    • DivinePhoenix69

      That’s the FF fanbase for ya, they’ll always look for something to whine and complain about.

      • Testsubject909

        That’s any and every fanbase.

        The difference is the size of it and how misrepresented they are pending which factions of an overly large and obviously factioned and fractioned fanbase is.

        • Nightmare637

          your post is tongue twister lol.
          but yeah all fanbase’s have there good and bad, mostly depends on what your exposed to first.

  • pimpalicious

    By appear in another game he probably means something like a Kingdom Hearts or Dissidia. I doubt we’ll see her in XV.

    • saxophone15

      My thoughts as well.

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      I really hope so, FFs are not mean to have direct links with each other.

  • 1Truth

    I’m sure Lightning will show up as an NPC in FFXV. After all, both FFXIII and FFXV use Fabula Nova Crystallis.

    • DyLaN

      Type 0 is FNC as well but I don’t thinkany1 frm 13 showing up AFAIK.

      • 1Truth

        The playable character Seven in FF Type-0 has exactly the same face and hair style as Lightning. Therefore, I’m not ruling her out from making a cameo in FFXV, even if it’s just as an NPC with a similar physical appearance.

    • Eilanzer

      Yeah…Make her a boss so i can kill her over and over again *¬*

  • Ixbran

    Personally, I see this article and all I can say is “eh?”, dont hate her, dont like her. Shes just that character I dont care for that got popular.

    Though I will say this, I’d much rather see her face in other games I play, and not Clouds.

    • Unlimax

      But you can’t see lightning without Clouds !

    • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

      Yeah, and you know Cloud’s cameo is never alone without his eternal stalker that should’ve stay dead ages ago.

  • Lightning

    She has already been a gust in Final Fantasy XIV

  • http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b-WmpoP6ZSs Kira

    welI don’t mind i love light

  • EinMugenTenshin

    Hated the first game, loves this third one.

  • KHSoraKeyBlade

    I really won’t be surprised if Lightning appears in Kingdom Hearts III at this rate.

  • maruhadapurpurine

    “I think perhaps the element of a time limit in this game could have been perceived as a form of restriction on the player’s freedom.”

    LOL THIS GUY! Not even for second he thinks that the problem was the horribly developed story. Goes to show why this trilogy came out the way it did.

    He is not even aware of why ppl don’t like this.

    • Nightmare637

      “He is not even aware of why ppl don’t like this”
      The time limit is actually brought up ALOT…

  • Roses4Aria

    I’m not a XIII hater and I like Lightning. She’s not my favorite FF character ever, but I had no problem with her. I liked XIII and thought XIII-2 was decent for what it was. However, even I have to say that enough is enough. In all honesty, it probably should have ended with the first one. There are still some aspects of the story and some of the characters that never really felt fully explored or explained to me, but I’m content to leave it be. Time for FF-15! :)

  • Brandonmkii

    This thread and its comments make me sad. You guys make me sad.

  • Rake

    Considering how LR ended, which could set in for FF XV, we may just see her, but won’t be doing anything major.

    I just hope she doesn’t play a major role. I found her to be an alright character, but come on, Sazh deserves more screen time.

    • Godmars

      “Is just an ordinary human now.”

      They had her fighting a war mech, storming a train full of troops, before she ever became l’Cie.

      • Rake

        Forgot about that…

  • Taylor Greene

    FFXV takes place in a modern looking world. FFXV was originally a part of the FFXIII canon. I hate to be the bearer of bad news…

    • neocatzon

      Not necessarily a bad news if SE don’t screw up on linking the series which we have to wait for that.

  • LightZero

    And I thought gamefaqs was bad in regard to this kind of stuff. That aside I don’t really care either way. I can take or leave Lightning. So long she doesn’t hijack FFXV away Noctis and his team spotlight.

    • Testsubject909

      13 is a touchy subject no matter where you go.

      And it would take a miracle for her to highjack FFXV.

      • DragKudo

        ha you know how miracles and Lightning work.

  • Tinye

    I know I’m an odd one out, but the more I play Lightning Returns the more awesome it becomes. I like Lightning as a character, I like most everything about her. I also like FFXIII – not so much XIII-2 – but Lightning Returns really is a unique game. The combat is superb and it really masters everything about the XIII saga’s combat system.

  • Kazekage Gaara

    Too bad all the FF fanboys hate on her for no reason whatsoever.She is a good character and I hope that she makes an appearance in KH 3 or FFXV :)

    • Testsubject909

      I can’t tell what’s the more dangerous attitude. To hate someone blindly or to blindly believe someone is devoid of any qualities to hate.

      • Kazekage Gaara

        Both but I know what I’m talking about.FF nostalgia whores can do nothing but complain about everything they think was “butchered” to their precious past.

        • Testsubject909

          Anyways. That’s enough outta me. I’ve already done a quick analysis of certain aspects of FFXIII, discussed some parts of Lightning and etc. Anything I add beyond that would just be fuel to a fire from either fans who won’t listen which in turn would provoke fans who’re hating.

      • Warboss Aohd

        probably the latter, at least it can be fun hating a character.

  • WyattEpp

    So much salt in the comments of everything mentioning Lightning. It’s delicious, but it’s giving me high blood pressure.

    • Testsubject909

      Best to watch your salt intake then. That said, I’ma gonna go play some Toukiden/Knights of Pen and Paper +1 and clear my mind.

      Be back when we start hyping FFXV.

  • ShawnOtakuSomething

    yeah seen it coming…I bet Her next appearance is going to be in KH 3 and crystal chronicles. Heck why not add her to Smash bros and the next PS All stars

    • Godmars

      KH3 would be a given, given that the game is a Disney/Square crossover. But after that, no, she should not be making any more appearances.

    • DragKudo

      I was surprised she wasn’t in all stars since she was in that PlayStation commercial that had all the all star characters in it.

  • GODDUKEMONEXA

    LIGHTNING in FINAL FANTASY XV!!!!!!!!!!!

  • Spicydicey

    Hopefully we can all agree that Sazh was the best FF13 character.

    http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs70/i/2010/086/1/8/Tactless_Tactics_by_Inyuo.jpg

  • Taylor Sanford

    Here’s something I don’t think people really understand, others say Lightning is bland and etc BUT we have to remember that 1) her parents left the picture at a young age and she had to take care of her baby sister 2) she’s a soldier (she was trained to think rationally) and 3) in Lightning Returns, Bhunivelze took her emotions from her so they wouldn’t get in the way of her “mission”.

    Given she is a rather straightforward character, her story wasn’t meant to make everyone feel good like most other Final Fantasy games, her’s was meant to be a wrench in the system to spice up the play style. (Or at least I believe this to be so – and I like the change personally)

    • Scourge626

      Lightning isn’t bland, just poorly written.

    • Godmars

      In FF13 she was suppose to be an overprotective older sibling looking out for the younger, already upset because of Serah’s relationship with Snow, when something even worse happens and she ends up fighting god for the fate of man while bonding with a larger segregate family.

      Though only the sister thing is shown/delivered in cut scene. And by the start of the second game, despite spending the first “kind of” rebelling against her fate, she totally embraced servitude w/o any real explanation.

      She was also a regular city cop. Several grades below the elite special forces she went up against in the first cut scene.

    • shooter_mcgavin

      It’s not the specific backstory that matters is how it’s projected in the actual game. The points you mentioned reminds me of Elsa and Anna from Frozen, except I was more involved with the Frozen characters than Lightning. Writing and execution helps … a lot.

  • easter

    I love Lightning as much as the next guy (okay, one of the few guys in the room that actually likes her), but please stop.

  • http://takopako.tumblr.com takopako

    watch…she’s gonna be a guest in ff XV. that is a world that is more similar to our earth…at least that what they have suggested.

    • ThunderGod_Cid

      Yeah, that’s what I’m guessing too.

      That live action/CGI versus-XIII trailer from 2011 had what looks like Tokyo’s skyline. And they did say back then that versus-XIII was connected to XIII in “someway.”

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YiIx9VJWSl8

      So yeah it’s very possible.

  • leingod

    She’s cool and all … but they should let her rest for a bit.

  • Leonard Norwood Jr.

    I have nothing against Lightning, even though I know she is the most poorly written character in FF series in my opinion. Even if there was a reason for how she acted in the final XIII game, it doesn’t change much. Besides that, let’s not make her make every appearance in every game from now on. Maybe she can make some appearance, but not too much. All I know is that even though the FFXII games held up okay including the final, I do have my own reasons what these games are my least favorite. Of course I know people know the game is okay, its just that for me, even if I figured out the whole mythology, I didn’t feel too immersed enough, even the ending didn’t blow me away, because I figured they were going to do that, and I’ve played games that done stuff like that before at a certain part.

    Anyway, I look forward to the next game…

  • Eilanzer

    “But we know that Lightning is an extremely popular character, even when compared to other Final Fantasy characters”

    Yeah…EVERYONE want to kill her and bury DEEP…VERY deep! ¬¬

  • Seven of The Scions

    Mostly The haters because they have been influenced by other haters and never even touched the game, LOL,
    Yeah whatever…

    Anyway, I think the Third one gives challenging gameplay that suits my taste. I felt the battle much rewarding.

    • shooter_mcgavin

      Played 13 finished it and didn’t like it. So count me as a “hater” that has finished the game. The only reason why I finished is out of respect for the franchise which is dwindling as the days pass by.

      • Seven of The Scions

        Congratulation for wasting your time, lol

        • shooter_mcgavin

          Some ways I felt that I did, but I learned my lesson. So I never went near the FFXIII sequels. If Final Fantasy is going to want to win my support back it’s going to be in FFXV.

  • arkane9

    Should have asked about how all the XIII games have lower review scores than the rest of the series, and lower sales in Japan than the rest of the series, and if he would consider not directing games anymore because of that.

    • Zachary Bower

      The sales point is not true. FFXIII oversold most of the series, even assuming that you are ignoring spinoffs. The sequels did less well, but were still comparable to other sequels & spinoffs. The early FF titles & FFVIII have similar aggregate ratings, but the company wasn’t as big in the early days & FFVIII is also polarizing, so you might have a point, there.

      • arkane9

        In Japan, XIII is the lowest selling FF in the main series since IV. Outside of Japan, it sold better than most FF games only because it was released on two consoles instead of just one like previous games.

        • Zachary Bower

          Source? Also, it’s been over a week since I’ve been to this page, mind reminding me why it matters where, specifically, it sells?

          • arkane9

            For Japan numbers:
            http://www.vgchartz.com/gamedb/?page=1&results=200&name=final%20fantasy&platform=&minSales=0&publisher=&genre=&sort=JP

            And before you say anything, VGChartz uses Media Create’s/Famitsu’s as a source for their Japan numbers, so they are actually accurate in that regard.

            Location matters because Japan is the country where Final Fantasy games sell the most, where all the games have been released, and where the games come from. It’s the best way to contrast and compare the games in the series and its sales as a whole.

            Sorry for the late reply, I don’t use this account this much, so I didn’t see your initial reply until now.

          • Zachary Bower

            I’ll take your word for it. This seems to say that it’s the worst-selling (in Japan) main title game from 7 & onwards. And also that X-2 sold pretty well, for some incomprehensible reason. The games historically sell the most in Japan, but in the end, they sell the most wherever they sell the most.

  • http://myanimelist.net/profile/Marimo-Head 海賊狩りのゾロ Roronoa Zoro

    What he means is we can probably expect her to appear in KH3 like the other FF characters do as SE/Disney cross-overs or handheld games like Dissidia.

    I highly doubt he means XV. It is it’s own separate beast being created by it’s own separate department. The minimum use should be mythology if they’re still including FNC tie-ins. However, the moment characters from past Final Fantasies start jumping into other mainline Final Fantasies will be a monumentus letdown especially if it starts with Lightning as the reasoning will be so plainly obvious.

    Also, did anyone even ask Tetsuya Nomura how he feels about other characters coming into his game? Lol.

    Lightning’s had her turn. In fact she’s had 3 turns. It’s Noctis’ now and personally I can’t wait.

  • Raspberry

    Good, i love Lightning.

  • shooter_mcgavin

    Why is this guy in denial? I don’t think people flat out hate Lightning but Toriyama seems to be stuck in this bubble where Lightning is one of the most popular characters of all time and it’s just sad.

    This reminds me of the The Simpsons episode the “Principal and the Pauper” it was generally disliked by fans and the writers acknowledged that but they personally said they loved the episode.

    It’s ok for Toriyama to say that he personally loves Lightning but to speak for the fans and flat out embellish her popularity and milestone as a character is something longtime FF fans like me find insulting.

    • Zachary Bower

      Doesn’t like people speaking for the fans. Does it anyway. It’s very difficult to tell how popular an individual character is, because actual documented character polls are few & far between, but I think there is good basis to the claim that Lightning is both popular & a milestone:

      “Beyond the individual games, Lightning has been popular among characters
      in gaming. In 2010, she was ranked as the 34th most popular video game
      character in Japan in a Famitsu poll.[108] Out of all the Final Fantasy XIII cast, Lightning was voted as the most popular character in a Microsoft poll.[109] … In 2013, Lightning was voted the favorite female Final Fantasy character in an official poll by Square Enix,[116] …Professional journalists and game developers have also ranked her high
      among important female video game characters, with her coming third in a
      list of top female characters in an RPG or JRPG during a panel at PAX Prime 2013.[119]”

      So, when people actually VOTE, they both rank her highly (popularity: check) & say that she is an important female protagonist (milestone: check). And this is after I’ve cut out a huge amount of Top X lists & critical articles that still rated her highly, but did not mention some kind of voting process.

      Are there characters who beat her? Sure. Yuna, Tifa, & Cloud all get top or near top spots in several polls & competitions. Of course, one caveat is that a lot of Tifa’s polls focused on her sex appeal, while Lightning’s notably do not, even though it’s widely known that she was “sexed up” for her subsequent games.

      On the other hand, there are still a lot of characters that she’s rivaling, if not beating. I also looked up what Wiki had to say about Aerith, Zidane, Sephiroth, Kefka, Kuja, Auron, Tidus, & Squall, but found no conclusive evidence that any of them did better in more popularity polls than Lightning. Sephiroth & Kefka are adored by individual reviewers, & Aerith & her death scene are well received, but there was little poll data on any of them. Meanwhile, Squall “won” polls like “biggest brooding jerk,” & the rest were barely talked about at all.

      So, taking all of that in, I think Toriyama is correct to say that Lightning is popular, even compared to other Final Fantasy characters. Or, at least, he is no less correct than if he were to be talking about any other highly recognized character, like Auron or Kefka. I suspect that the problem that some people have is that THEY don’t like Lightning, & THEY don’t like Final Fantasy XIII, & their FRIENDS are going to have similar opinions, so they overestimate the amount of people who feel the same way that they do.

      • shooter_mcgavin

        You make some points here but some of those polls are skewed. Example is the Square Enix poll for a site created in 2011, we can already assume that most of those fans who voter are either new fans or ones that stayed faithful to the franchise after FFXIII. There’a good chance that most that were fet up with FF after FFXIII didn’t even bother to register a vote.

        My recollection of the Famitsu poll is that it was released a mere couple of months after FFXIII was released. Like everything that new and has fanboys it’s bound to get that initial exaggerated love due to the game’s hype and being release in that period. Even western reviewers were succumbed to that when sites like IGN and Gametrailers were giving high score for a game they would denounce months after.

        I speak as a fan and I am not speaking for the fans but what I can say there is no evidence to prove she is extremely popularity. Ok for ever poll that says people love here there’s another poll that says they don’t neogaf did a recent poll where if people actually like Lightning or not of the 1,500 respondents 1,300+ said no. I am not saying what poll is right but take note the Square Enix poll is by Square Enix and, my understanding, had less respondents than neogaf. So it’s something to consider.

        Also I don’t hear a lot of journalists loving her character. From what I read in reviews of Lightning Returns it seem the biggest criticism is how interesting Lightning is in the game and even before.

        At the very least Toriyama didn’t have to say fans hated her nor did he had to say that she was extremely popular. Whatever evidence proves she is popular seems suspect and selective. I guess that hotds true as well for polls that show how much fans hate her.

        He could have just said something like “while we know the Lightning has garnered some criticism from fans she still does have a pretty devoted fanbase so we hope we can add her in some future titles for these fans”.

        He wouldn’t have been out of line, appease the actual fans that like Lightning, and wouldn’t alienate others from the FF fanbase.

        • Zachary Bower

          Well, the Microsoft poll should be tossed out. Wiki neglected to mention that this was a poll specifically about Final Fantasy XIII. The Famitsu article does not mention the number of respondents. The Square Enix poll is all in Japanese, so I have no idea what the Hell it says. But I do not think that your criticisms of it are accurate, for reasons that I will go into later.

          Now that I’ve pointed the finger at myself, I would note that there is bias in any sort of review, & also assert that popularity is not zero-sum. Trust me, a large amount of people hate Cloud, but this does not change the fact that he’s still one of their most popular characters. You can apply any number of sayings, here. “Familiarity breeds contempt.” “No such thing as bad publicity.” “For every action, there is an equal & opposite reaction.” Point being, anything that gets really “big” also gets negative press. You know, there’s also a lot of people who just hate Final Fantasy & JRPGs in general. I would also note that, while complaints may be salient, they aren’t necessarily accurate. Tracking down that panel that praised Lightning, these were apparently not random nobodies:

          “The panelists were AJ Glasser (Developer Relations manager, Facebook),
          Susan Arendt (Managing Editor, Joystiq), Kirsten Kennedy (Producer,
          Telltale Games), Noah Hughes (Brand Manager, Tomb Raider, Crystal
          Dynamics), Kiki Wolfkill (Executive Producer, 343 Industries), and Mike
          Thompson (Game Writer, 5th Planet Games). Before the event, they
          nominated a group of five or six candidates for best female character in
          eleven different categories; when the event was live, they offered
          their individual arguments in favor of each character, and a winner was
          chosen by general consensus.”

          Now, I mentioned that I would address the Square Enix poll. It is true that I can’t see what it says, but I can see the pictures, & I see a pattern emerging that is similar to the other polls that Wiki keeps referencing. Lightning is 1st, Aerith is 2nd, Yuna is 3rd, Tifa is 4th, & Celes is 5th. Celes achieving such a high rank makes me doubt that this is just a bunch of people who only recently latched on.

          Another reason why is because I really doubt that many fans dropped in the first place. It seems like this has been said of every game since IX, yet these games keep being commercial successes. XIII out-sold most titles in the series. Its sequels did not, but then
          again, the spinoffs titles never do as well as the main series.

          But even if these are new fans, why should that matter? We’re obviously talking about whether or not Lightning is popular with Final Fantasy fans. It just seems fair to me that all fans count, but if someone renounces the fandom, or whatever, then they can’t really complain about being misrepresented. Anyway, these games are made with the assumption that teenagers are going to be playing them. If people are dissatisfied, maybe they’re just growing out of it.

          My conclusion is still that I don’t think he was out of line at all. Trends seem consistently place her on par with the series’ most popular characters, which does not mean that there won’t be dissent. And again, we can go back & forth with the numbers all day, but I think you’ll find that we can also do that with characters that we accept as a matter of fact are popular, without asking for empirical proof of it. You know, if she’s such a boring character, then why is she so important to people? I didn’t see this much rage when Vaan got a spinoff & was put in Dissidia.

  • Samsara09

    I don’t think the sheep here realize that Toriyama is just having fun with your ridiculous reactions.High where he is,on the upper floors of one of japan’s biggest rpg makers,nothing we mere consumers “worms” throw at him will hit.

  • Bell

    It’s a shame I can’t expect the same treatment for Noel. He’s criminally underrated, if I may throw in my two cents without going into full raging Noel Kreiss fanboy mode, but hey. A fan can always dream, right?

  • Ace

    No.

  • http://uglylarvas.tumbrl.com/ Kanimir

    Please, no.

  • Darrgoth

    That really was a great ending for the series and it wrapped up quite nicely.

  • $1392518

    If there was a glimmer of hope, toriyama would never direct anything again. Who in their right mind thinks that the direction the stories leaps at is completely acceptable?

  • DragKudo

    She was referenced in re:coded?

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Well, Re:Coded’s reference was kind of a fair reference since you could customize your avatar as any FF protagonist chosen for Dissidia.

  • Testsubject909

    She was underwhelming in Duodecim if you ask me. Pretty much just a one note character.

    And that’s the majority of my experience with her character. I’m avoiding FF13 out of good taste.

  • delmar

    fair enough.

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Agreed.

    Laguna: Yo, I found a way to get rid of the Munchkins!

    Kain: Turns out we’re on a loop.

    Lightning: KAIN IS EVUUUULLLL ARGHAGAGHSHDG I HATE GODS I SWEAR!!!!

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Vaan: Hey, I kinda look like a cool protagonist! :D

  • Nice Boat Quatro

    Just wanted to add:

    Kain & WOL: Hey guys, we backstabbed almost everybody of our allies.
    Laguna: We instantly forgive you brave allies

  • delmar

    I don’t think you could have stated that any better.

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Well it IS Laguna we’re talking about!

    In fact, Yuna is also too much of a goodie two shoes to hold a grudge and Vaan… well it’s Vaan.

  • delmar

    I think if anything and i have made comments like this before but sweet jesus square just give us another dissdia/ expand the story to previous wars. You can even include that crap show that Lighting’s personality that you think sells so well among us gamers just another dissidia with new characters and maybe a better story arc. that’s asking for too much. Honestly who read that script and thought “this story is amazing how could this not sell millions?”

  • Nice Boat Quatro

    “We nailed it, guys. Why have Sephiroth, Kefka and all the other villains defeating the heroes when we can have…. Manikins?”

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    I would prefer something a bit new for Dissidia.
    The wars before 012 were all the same thing, Manikins reducing the number of Cosmos warriors and Cosmos always losing while Chaos pawns were picking their noses. From 013 up to 020 was Cid’s nightmare where Shinryu’s contract almost succeeded and Chaos went mad.

    So yeah, as much as I like Dissidia’s story I think there’s no place for an expanded story, bringing Chaos back would be kind of eh, either I’d like a reboot with the same mechanics or something new that would reunite the heroes.

  • delmar

    Hahah i know. They kept on referring to the cycles as being brutal yet none of that was really shown. If dissidia was anything like the actual games you would have at least seen sephiroth impale some one, terra burn someone to a crisp, or kefka kick someone off a ledge.

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Sephiroth: Im going to kill myself.
    Emperor: Amusing joke there Sephiroth.
    Sephiroth: No srsly, Imma kill myself.
    Emperor: …Well, that escalated quickly.
    Kefka: EMO!!!

  • delmar

    I’m pretty sure if they thought about it they could figure out a generic massed produced enemy for the heroes to face in previous wars. If they really went crazy maybe they could just use classic FF enemies like bombs, behemoths, ect to fight and use the excuse by the 12 war all the monsters died out.

  • Nice Boat Quatro

    Kefka: I’ll show you guys how a real villain fights
    Vaan: I won’t listen to your lies, Ondore clown! *Vaan 1hits KO Kefka*
    Kefka: What is wrong with me today?!

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    Ultimecia: Oh Golbez, did you actually went out there to shine that SWAG, black shinning armor?
    Golbez: Nope.
    Ultimecia: Oh. Should’ve guessed, this war got bored.
    Golbez: I dunno, maybe things I’ll change.
    Ultimecia: Watchu talking about Willis Golbez?
    Golbez: Nothin, Im not fishy at all! *Swings evuuuul cape!*

  • http://gamgambit.tumblr.com/ Thespian Thief ♢

    *Toriyama on a pink filther a la Mirai Nikki*

  • Testsubject909

    Too bad that’s all he’s got going for him.

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