Ah, I gotcha! Thanks for clarifying for me!

Take care! :D And thanks again for this discussion! Helps to know more, indeed! ^_^

Ah, I gotcha! Thanks for clarifying for me!

Take care! :D And thanks again for this discussion! Helps to know more, indeed! ^_^

Being able to discuss a topic in a peaceful and respectful way (specially when you disagree) is not something that you can do with everyone on the internet…

Oh, and just so you know, I was counting the “uncut” new dubs before. I mentioned them when I wrote “(or the more common new dubs)”, but well, I should´ve clarified that more or not using Dragon Ball as my main example in the first place.

Being able to discuss a topic in a peaceful and respectful way (specially when you disagree) is not something that you can do with everyone on the internet…

Oh, and just so you know, I was counting the “uncut” new dubs before. I mentioned them when I wrote “(or the more common new dubs)”, but well, I should´ve clarified that more or not using Dragon Ball as my main example in the first place.

You’re forgetting about the Resident Evil series and Devil May Cry series in that accord. I’m pretty sure there are a few Engrish games out there as well. So its not out of the question for them to have only one track that’s not Japanese. Especially Mario games. But, there are games in the US that have only come with the Japanese track. It happens but rarely.

Not necessary, but I can see for some. I play Japanese games if it interests me. For any game that comes from any country, I have many factors just like every other media. If I was a creator, I would want to expand my audience as much as possible. And remember, many people have the option to import the Japanese version while people who like dubs cannot. Not to mention subs for the deaf and dubs for the blind in these things. In a perfect world, there would be both options, but I say at least have a dub for that country for that person to experience a work in their way.

I’ll have to disagree strongly about “Dattebayo” issue. Especially when creators picked the phase for that language audience, its as much valid, IMO. Especially when it fits for the sentence before it, as bring excitement and agreement which fits as best as it can. People who don’t understand Japanese would get a since from the dub that he does have a catch phase and the likes otherwise they wouldn’t have caught.

Yes, I’m one of those people that rather have many understand a work as much as possible. So in the case of “Cowabunga”, if a language has a hard time pronouncing it, I would try to find something as similar and the likes for those who can’t comprehend. For me, I would want that person to have the same feel as someone watching the original who knows the language and no need for subs. So if there is a joke, I would want to change it to get into the spirit like it was in the original. That is what localization is suppose to be, IMO.

PS: I understand! It was nice talking to you with the discussion at hand! Nice to get POV from others and a friendly debate. ^_^

You’re forgetting about the Resident Evil series and Devil May Cry series in that accord. I’m pretty sure there are a few Engrish games out there as well. So its not out of the question for them to have only one track that’s not Japanese. Especially Mario games. But, there are games in the US that have only come with the Japanese track. It happens but rarely.

Not necessary, but I can see for some. I play Japanese games if it interests me. For any game that comes from any country, I have many factors just like every other media. If I was a creator, I would want to expand my audience as much as possible. And remember, many people have the option to import the Japanese version while people who like dubs cannot. Not to mention subs for the deaf and dubs for the blind in these things. In a perfect world, there would be both options, but I say at least have a dub for that country for that person to experience a work in their way.

I’ll have to disagree strongly about “Dattebayo” issue. Especially when creators picked the phase for that language audience, its as much valid, IMO. Especially when it fits for the sentence before it, as bring excitement and agreement which fits as best as it can. People who don’t understand Japanese would get a since from the dub that he does have a catch phase and the likes otherwise they wouldn’t have caught.

Yes, I’m one of those people that rather have many understand a work as much as possible. So in the case of “Cowabunga”, if a language has a hard time pronouncing it, I would try to find something as similar and the likes for those who can’t comprehend. For me, I would want that person to have the same feel as someone watching the original who knows the language and no need for subs. So if there is a joke, I would want to change it to get into the spirit like it was in the original. That is what localization is suppose to be, IMO.

PS: I understand! It was nice talking to you with the discussion at hand! Nice to get POV from others and a friendly debate. ^_^

Ok, let´s agree to disagree. But like I already mentioned, these are just a few exceptions. Most Anime/JP games take place in Japan or a fantasy setting anyway (sometimes a mixture of both), and from the rest some include English VA originally.

Besides, if the creators of an animation/game/movie/etc decided to create such thing in their language instead of a foreign one according to the setting, that means something, right ?

And well, if Akira Toriyama or Toei Animation (for example) thought that it was ok for Dragon Ball to be edited like it was in the US dub… I would still disagree. Just because the original creators, for whatever reason agree with those things (or the more common new dubs) doesn´t mean I should. I would still prefer the original voices for the things I already stated.

“Its “new” and “exotic” and liking a “new vision,” so why not?”

So… Why is it ok for Japan to get foreign voices, but not ok for the West ? How is it ok to change the language to get new “exotic” voices for Japan, but not getting foreign voices in the West, even if those are the original ones ?

And again, getting another option is not the same as that being the only option. I´m sure that the Japanese wouldn´t like to get Final Fantasy or Disgaea in English only, just like I´m sure people in the US wouldn´t like to get Bioshock or Halo in Japanese only. The US didn´t even got Jade Empire in a foreign language, which could´ve been in Chinese according to your opinion.

“But that’s the thing, with games, your not getting true subtitles, your getting “dubtitles.””

Well, that´s true… although how much you lose also depends on how faithful the English dub is. It also depends on how the script is done, because I´m guessing that the script could include some short clarifications or names/expressions through brackets or quotation marks.

However, this doesn´t mean that the original voices aren´t worth keeping, or still better than the new ones. The original voices still allow you to know the intended personalities of the characters, they´re better suited to the animations (and settings, at least in most cases), and you´re still able to hear expressions, names or other cultural elements (which also appear in the gameplay, like in the battles) that can be recognized after a while.

And this wouldn´t apply to those very few cases where we get the original voices only, like in Guilty Gear games, Yakuza 2, Megaman X6, etc. If we had more of these, this wouldn´t be a problem…

I haven´t played Disgaea yet, but I´m guessing that in the case of “Dood”, the japanese equivalent probably gets mentioned several times in the original VA. If that´s the case, I´m sure I can recognize the expression eventually, and see how it´s used in the context. And since the original expression probably can´t be translated exactly, hearing it in it´s context is as far as I can go without knowing Japanese, and better than hearing “Dood” for me.

By the way, isn´t one of the reasons of playing a Japanese game (in this case) to play something different from your own culture ? Because if you keep changing every cultural element, how much is there from the original ? You might as well play a game from your country instead.

“Yes, “believe it” is a good translation, but since many English fans noticed more than when Japanese Naruto says theirs, they complain(ugh). So they dropped it. Naruto says dattebayo TONS more times than believe it, yet people complain more for “believe it” ”

I´ll have to disagree then… “Dattebayo” is an expression that can´t be translated accurately, because it´s just a way of finishing a sentence, “confirming”/”reinforcing” it. I started watching Naruto before any dub existed through fansubs and after a few episodes I easily realized that Naruto mentioned that expression at the end of several sentences. And by reading the subs, you can see in which context the sentence is used without any problem.

I loved that expression after hearing it in the first episodes, along with Naruto´s original voice, and I disliked “Believe It”(and it´s Spanish translation) afterwards. It´s not about how many times its said, but about the expression itself and how its said.

The way I see it, disrespecting the expression which was chosen by Kishimoto himself is disrespecting a part of its work. Do you think that an expression made up by an editor is as valid as the original one ? When hearing “dattebayo”, I understand the original intent good enough and hear the original expression, but when hearing “Believe It”, I´m hearing a completely different expression just to get a useless literal meaning.

“As for Sakura, I’m pretty sure she’s doing it right. I think all versions, its suppose to be “Cha” and just means Sakura’s Inner self cheer”

No, in the Japanese version she says something like “Shannaro” (an expression which I also love), which according to Wikipedia, it has no literal meaning. It´s an expression that can be used for several things depending on the situation. Changing it to “Cha” doesn´t make any sense because it´s not either the original expression or a translation of it. It would be like changing “Cowabunga” from T.M.N.T in other languages.

So, it seems that Latin America got the “Cha” from the US version then… along with the awful “cut-and-paste” opening…

PS: Sorry for writing too much, but it´s a long topic to discuss and I´m not very good at explaining things in few words, specially in English. I think that I´ve wrote more than enough, so I´ll read your comment if you want to add something but I won´t reply unless you have a question for me.

Ok, let´s agree to disagree. But like I already mentioned, these are just a few exceptions. Most Anime/JP games take place in Japan or a fantasy setting anyway (sometimes a mixture of both), and from the rest some include English VA originally.

Besides, if the creators of an animation/game/movie/etc decided to create such thing in their language instead of a foreign one according to the setting, that means something, right ?

And well, if Akira Toriyama or Toei Animation (for example) thought that it was ok for Dragon Ball to be edited like it was in the US dub… I would still disagree. Just because the original creators, for whatever reason agree with those things (or the more common new dubs) doesn´t mean I should. I would still prefer the original voices for the things I already stated.

“Its “new” and “exotic” and liking a “new vision,” so why not?”

So… Why is it ok for Japan to get foreign voices, but not ok for the West ? How is it ok to change the language to get new “exotic” voices for Japan, but not getting foreign voices in the West, even if those are the original ones ?

And again, getting another option is not the same as that being the only option. I´m sure that the Japanese wouldn´t like to get Final Fantasy or Disgaea in English only, just like I´m sure people in the US wouldn´t like to get Bioshock or Halo in Japanese only. The US didn´t even got Jade Empire in a foreign language, which could´ve been in Chinese according to your opinion.

“But that’s the thing, with games, your not getting true subtitles, your getting “dubtitles.””

Well, that´s true… although how much you lose also depends on how faithful the English dub is. It also depends on how the script is done, because I´m guessing that the script could include some short clarifications or names/expressions through brackets or quotation marks.

However, this doesn´t mean that the original voices aren´t worth keeping, or still better than the new ones. The original voices still allow you to know the intended personalities of the characters, they´re better suited to the animations (and settings, at least in most cases), and you´re still able to hear expressions, names or other cultural elements (which also appear in the gameplay, like in the battles) that can be recognized after a while.

And this wouldn´t apply to those very few cases where we get the original voices only, like in Guilty Gear games, Yakuza 2, Megaman X6, etc. If we had more of these, this wouldn´t be a problem…

I haven´t played Disgaea yet, but I´m guessing that in the case of “Dood”, the japanese equivalent probably gets mentioned several times in the original VA. If that´s the case, I´m sure I can recognize the expression eventually, and see how it´s used in the context. And since the original expression probably can´t be translated exactly, hearing it in it´s context is as far as I can go without knowing Japanese, and better than hearing “Dood” for me.

By the way, isn´t one of the reasons of playing a Japanese game (in this case) to play something different from your own culture ? Because if you keep changing every cultural element, how much is there from the original ? You might as well play a game from your country instead.

“Yes, “believe it” is a good translation, but since many English fans noticed more than when Japanese Naruto says theirs, they complain(ugh). So they dropped it. Naruto says dattebayo TONS more times than believe it, yet people complain more for “believe it” ”

I´ll have to disagree then… “Dattebayo” is an expression that can´t be translated accurately, because it´s just a way of finishing a sentence, “confirming”/”reinforcing” it. I started watching Naruto before any dub existed through fansubs and after a few episodes I easily realized that Naruto mentioned that expression at the end of several sentences. And by reading the subs, you can see in which context the sentence is used without any problem.

I loved that expression after hearing it in the first episodes, along with Naruto´s original voice, and I disliked “Believe It”(and it´s Spanish translation) afterwards. It´s not about how many times its said, but about the expression itself and how its said.

The way I see it, disrespecting the expression which was chosen by Kishimoto himself is disrespecting a part of its work. Do you think that an expression made up by an editor is as valid as the original one ? When hearing “dattebayo”, I understand the original intent good enough and hear the original expression, but when hearing “Believe It”, I´m hearing a completely different expression just to get a useless literal meaning.

“As for Sakura, I’m pretty sure she’s doing it right. I think all versions, its suppose to be “Cha” and just means Sakura’s Inner self cheer”

No, in the Japanese version she says something like “Shannaro” (an expression which I also love), which according to Wikipedia, it has no literal meaning. It´s an expression that can be used for several things depending on the situation. Changing it to “Cha” doesn´t make any sense because it´s not either the original expression or a translation of it. It would be like changing “Cowabunga” from T.M.N.T in other languages.

So, it seems that Latin America got the “Cha” from the US version then… along with the awful “cut-and-paste” opening…

PS: Sorry for writing too much, but it´s a long topic to discuss and I´m not very good at explaining things in few words, specially in English. I think that I´ve wrote more than enough, so I´ll read your comment if you want to add something but I won´t reply unless you have a question for me.

Ok, let´s agree to disagree. But like I already mentioned, these are just a few exceptions. Most Anime/JP games take place in Japan or a fantasy setting anyway (sometimes a mixture of both), and from the rest some include English VA originally.

Besides, if the creators of an animation/game/movie/etc decided to create such thing in their language instead of a foreign one according to the setting, that means something, right ?

And well, if Akira Toriyama or Toei Animation (for example) thought that it was ok for Dragon Ball to be edited like it was in the US dub… I would still disagree. Just because the original creators, for whatever reason agree with those things (or the more common new dubs) doesn´t mean I should. I would still prefer the original voices for the things I already stated.

“Its “new” and “exotic” and liking a “new vision,” so why not?”

So… Why is it ok for Japan to get foreign voices, but not ok for the West ? How is it ok to change the language to get new “exotic” voices for Japan, but not getting foreign voices in the West, even if those are the original ones ?

And again, getting another option is not the same as that being the only option. I´m sure that the Japanese wouldn´t like to get Final Fantasy or Disgaea in English only, just like I´m sure people in the US wouldn´t like to get Bioshock or Halo in Japanese only. The US didn´t even got Jade Empire in a foreign language, which could´ve been in Chinese according to your opinion.

“But that’s the thing, with games, your not getting true subtitles, your getting “dubtitles.””

Well, that´s true… although how much you lose also depends on how faithful the English dub is. It also depends on how the script is done, because I´m guessing that the script could include some short clarifications or names/expressions through brackets or quotation marks.

However, this doesn´t mean that the original voices aren´t worth keeping, or still better than the new ones. The original voices still allow you to know the intended personalities of the characters, they´re better suited to the animations (and settings, at least in most cases), and you´re still able to hear expressions, names or other cultural elements (which also appear in the gameplay, like in the battles) that can be recognized after a while.

And this wouldn´t apply to those very few cases where we get the original voices only, like in Guilty Gear games, Yakuza 2, Megaman X6, etc. If we had more of these, this wouldn´t be a problem…

I haven´t played Disgaea yet, but I´m guessing that in the case of “Dood”, the japanese equivalent probably gets mentioned several times in the original VA. If that´s the case, I´m sure I can recognize the expression eventually, and see how it´s used in the context. And since the original expression probably can´t be translated exactly, hearing it in it´s context is as far as I can go without knowing Japanese, and better than hearing “Dood” for me.

By the way, isn´t one of the reasons of playing a Japanese game (in this case) to play something different from your own culture ? Because if you keep changing every cultural element, how much is there from the original ? You might as well play a game from your country instead.

“Yes, “believe it” is a good translation, but since many English fans noticed more than when Japanese Naruto says theirs, they complain(ugh). So they dropped it. Naruto says dattebayo TONS more times than believe it, yet people complain more for “believe it” ”

I´ll have to disagree then… “Dattebayo” is an expression that can´t be translated accurately, because it´s just a way of finishing a sentence, “confirming”/”reinforcing” it. I started watching Naruto before any dub existed through fansubs and after a few episodes I easily realized that Naruto mentioned that expression at the end of several sentences. And by reading the subs, you can see in which context the sentence is used without any problem.

I loved that expression after hearing it in the first episodes, along with Naruto´s original voice, and I disliked “Believe It”(and it´s Spanish translation) afterwards. It´s not about how many times its said, but about the expression itself and how its said.

The way I see it, disrespecting the expression which was chosen by Kishimoto himself is disrespecting a part of its work. Do you think that an expression made up by an editor is as valid as the original one ? When hearing “dattebayo”, I understand the original intent good enough and hear the original expression, but when hearing “Believe It”, I´m hearing a completely different expression just to get a useless literal meaning.

“As for Sakura, I’m pretty sure she’s doing it right. I think all versions, its suppose to be “Cha” and just means Sakura’s Inner self cheer”

No, in the Japanese version she says something like “Shannaro” (an expression which I also love), which according to Wikipedia, it has no literal meaning. It´s an expression that can be used for several things depending on the situation. Changing it to “Cha” doesn´t make any sense because it´s not either the original expression or a translation of it. It would be like changing “Cowabunga” from T.M.N.T in other languages.

So, it seems that Latin America got the “Cha” from the US version then… along with the awful “cut-and-paste” opening…

PS: Sorry for writing too much, but it´s a long topic to discuss and I´m not very good at explaining things in few words, specially in English. I think that I´ve wrote more than enough, so I´ll read your comment if you want to add something but I won´t reply unless you have a question for me.

FFX-2 only got Japanese VA for the Last Mission since its new. But really now, I believe that the opposite of this situation is a market for them. Its “new” and “exotic” and liking a “new vision,” so why not?

But that’s the thing, with games, your not getting true subtitles, your getting “dubtitles.” You got the voice, but your still missing creator’s intent. For example, missing out on what Japanese Prinnys say for their, “Dood” and any other puns that won’t be noticed because your reading the English script of the dub. They are missed if you don’t understand the language. Of course, people who understand both languages get double the fun in gaming, IMO.

Yes, “believe it” is a good translation, but since many English fans noticed more than when Japanese Naruto says theirs, they complain(ugh). So they dropped it. Naruto says dattebayo TONS more times than believe it, yet people complain more for “believe it.” And all they were doing was being close to the intent for Naruto. Ignorance is bliss I suppose, moment many understand they get all crazy.
As for Sakura, I’m pretty sure she’s doing it right. I think all versions, its suppose to be “Cha” and just means Sakura’s Inner self cheer.

FFX-2 only got Japanese VA for the Last Mission since its new. But really now, I believe that the opposite of this situation is a market for them. Its “new” and “exotic” and liking a “new vision,” so why not?

But that’s the thing, with games, your not getting true subtitles, your getting “dubtitles.” You got the voice, but your still missing creator’s intent. For example, missing out on what Japanese Prinnys say for their, “Dood” and any other puns that won’t be noticed because your reading the English script of the dub. They are missed if you don’t understand the language. Of course, people who understand both languages get double the fun in gaming, IMO.

Yes, “believe it” is a good translation, but since many English fans noticed more than when Japanese Naruto says theirs, they complain(ugh). So they dropped it. Naruto says dattebayo TONS more times than believe it, yet people complain more for “believe it.” And all they were doing was being close to the intent for Naruto. Ignorance is bliss I suppose, moment many understand they get all crazy.
As for Sakura, I’m pretty sure she’s doing it right. I think all versions, its suppose to be “Cha” and just means Sakura’s Inner self cheer.

“The people who tend to think that are the ones who don’t watch much dubs”

You know, that argument can be used in both ways… Most people that complain about getting the original voices are the ones that have only heard that language once or twice (sometimes never) and can´t tolerate to watch things in a different language.

If you´re an anime fan or play Japanese games in the West, it´s impossible for you to never heard much of an English dub (or Spanish, in my case in anime) because they are everywhere… Few Japanese games get their original voices in this side of the world and practically every anime gets a new dub for TV (and they´re always an option on DVDs, movies, etc).

“I’m also talking about anime/games were the setting is like England, but they still casts Japanese VA”

In those very few cases, I would go for the original Japanese VA. Why ? Because even if the setting is in England (in this example), there´s still probably several expressions, and elements from the culture and characters that would get lost in the English dub, which are part of the story.

Ask yourself this: If you made a movie/game in a Japanese setting, would you be able to imitate every aspect of that culture ? Or would you translate part of your culture to that setting, even if you don´t intend to ?

By the way, if you prefer the language according to the setting like you said (which could include other languages besides English and Japanese…), you would end up watching the original voices most of the time anyway, with “fantasy” ones being optional.

“I’m just saying for the International and Final Mix, is that there are Japanese fans that like other dubs as well, lol”

But it´s still a very different matter because they got the original voices first, not other ones instead of them. These are rare cases anyway, more like “novelty” items or “collector´s editions” and some of them even including Japanese VA partially, like in the FF X-2 version.

“Disney the original is English voices”

Yes, but not for S-E´s characters… Even a more unfrequent case is this one…

“I would also like to point out localizations. Sure, you enjoy the original performance, but are you really understanding the creator’s intent?”

Yes, at least most of it. I can´t understand everything because I´m not Japanese, but the subtitles can explain a few things, the context can explain others and by experiencing more of the culture you understand more.

A new dub usually removes/modifies several cultural elements (which are part of the work itself) in order to be able to express “everything” in that language. A subtitled version keeps all those elements intact in the voices, while if done properly, explaining them partially. It´s not perfect, but it´s definitely closer to the original work of the creator. And there´s also other things that those dubs change, like reducing the sound of the music or background in anime.

As for “dattebayo”, I didn´t understand it much at first (although I liked the way of saying it), but after a while I understood it more because of the context. Is “believe it” better ? Is it an accurate translation, and/or even used somewhere ? In Spanish, Sakura says “chas” instead of its usual expression (I don´t know how´s in English), which as far as I know doesn´t mean anything…