Persona Team Director: "Next Year, We Will Be Able To Announce New Titles"

By Spencer . December 27, 2010 . 11:06pm

image Katsura Hashino, leader of the Persona team and director of Catherine, posted a tantalizing comment in his latest blog. "Next year, we will be able to announce various titles, I think."

 

Right now, the only project project the team unveiled is Catherine, but with plans to hire more staff things are brewing in their office. Hashino thanked fans for giving their original title, Catherine, such a warm reception and said he hopes people will anticipate future projects from the "P team."


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  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=503596589 Bruno Marcello

    yes! an hd persona perhaps?

  • PrinceHeir

    yes Persona 5 and a new Shin Megami Tensei game for the PS3 please :)

    Digital Devil Saga or Nocturnal Art Style please :D

    • puchinri

      I’m guessing you mean Nocturne? (Unless I’m missing something.)

      But definitely agreed~.
      (But for some weird reason, I feel like a Persona game on Wii wouldn’t be bad, as highly unlikely as it is.)

      • PrinceHeir

        yup Nocturne ^^

    • SolidusSnake

      Hell yeah! But let’s hope it’s multiplat, 360 fans need some grimdark jrpg love too.

      Ah, hell, as long as it’s not mobile phone crap I’ll be happy D:

      • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spencer-Thew/622016134 Spencer Thew

        But lets not forget the last time we tried to multiplat a beloved JRPG series. We got the steaming pile of horse manure that was Final Fantasy XIII. Do we really wanna risk that with Persona 5, the game hat could single handedly save JRPGs?

        • Aoshi00

          So FF14 turned out to be a piece of beta garbage because it was on the PC? Your cause and effect logic is seriously flawed. Don’t blame the 360 when they made a game like FF13, did you blame the PS2 for the way FF12 turned out? That’s all S-E’s design choice regardless of platform. Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were great RPGs like the older FFs btw. Oh right, Catherine is going to be horrible because it’s multiplatform like FF13..

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Uh, what exactly does the PC have to do with anything? The existence of a PC version has never harmed any game. Having to fit titles onto the 360, on the other hand, has. Look at Rage or look at Lost Planet 2. Both titles, the developers said had to have content cut to fit within the 360 DVD format. The PC does not have any limits as to how big they can make the game. Neither does the PS3. The 360, on the other hand, can be like a bag of bricks on a series like this.

          • krokounleashed

            Um, so Bayonetta was shittier on PS3 because it was on 360, too? No, it’s up to the developers or guys who port it. I’d say SE is right now on a good way to be the next SEGA. Btw Lost Odyssey looks great on 360 and still has as much content as FF13. FF13 was a failure right from the start. They first build the cutscenes and tried after that building gameplay around them.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            How many discs was Lost Odyssey? That was back when Microsoft were trying to take the JRPG market and were waiving their three disc limit. Obviously, they aren’t waiving it anymore. Read up about the content having to be cut out by ID from “Rage,” where they said that they can’t afford to make it a four disc game because of the limits set up by Microsoft. Feel free to google it before you disagree with me on this.

          • Aoshi00

            Exaclty, PC did not have anything to do w/ FF14 being a crappy game, just like FF13 being multiplatform also had nothing to do w/ it. It was a design choice, it’s not that they couldn’t fit in as many towns as Lost Odssey, S-E said they couldn’t do it, they said if there were to remake FF7 in HD, it would take them many many years. They chose to put HD cutscenes on the forefront, that’s what’s taking up space. Almost most games fit on one DVD, other those those w/ tons and tons of pre-rendered cutscenes. Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey were bigger in scope than FF13, one had 3 discs and the other had 4 discs, so what, they even had more environment than FF13, same for Alan Wake, a pretty big game, w/ a lot of in-game cutscenes, w/ 7 languages to boot, all fit on one disc. So if S-E can’t make a good game because they can’t do a good port for the 360, that’s the limitation of their skills, not because limitation of disc space.The Assassin’s Creed series are on both 360 and PS3, those games are huge, I don’t see one version being inferior or gameplay needs to be dumped down in order to make two version equal. I always pick 360 when it’s multiplatform because I could install the whole game on my HDD (always w/in 7Gb) and it would burden the system less since it runs cooler. It’s in the best interest of developers to keep the game’s size not as big anyway when they need to put it on PSN or games on demand, downloading a 7Gb game is big enough as it is, imagine downloading a 50Gb game. and no game should be that big unless they just need to do lots and lots of “pre-rendered cutscenes”, even multi-language track does not come into play (Blue Dragon has Eng/Jpn, and Lost Odyssey had 5 language of audio and in-game text).So stop being a total PS3 fanboy, it’s way too obvious and immature (I don’t want 360 owners to enjoy our precious PS3 exclusives..). Games like Catherine and Persona 5 won’t be that big anyway, and would not make a difference if it’s on both PS3 and 360, no need for compromises. I don’t recall many games whose quality need to be compromised, unless you’re talking about porting a HD game to a Wii.

            S-E decided to make a game where you go on a straight path, fight, cutscene, straight path, fight, cutscene, that’s the gameplay style they went with, and a lot of people seem to have enjoyed it, so that was due to the limitation of 360 DVD disc space?

          • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XA6XUSURPM6FHULXVVJAENRG4Y Tanto

            Keep all megaten stuff exclusive. Whatever system

          • Aoshi00

            Right, people only like exclusives when it’s on their system :) I don’t care which system it’s on, the more system is on the better, more people could play it. I guess they really shouldn’t port Muramasa to PS3, so only the Wii owners could play that awesome game.

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Spencer-Thew/622016134 Spencer Thew

            I’m saying Final Fantasy XIII was seriously hurt by going multiplat midway through development. Considering we alreayd know both that Persona 5 is in development (they had an interview about it in 2009) and that currently its only on Ps3, adding a 360 version at this point could only hurt it.

        • Kaoro

          Do you REALLY believe the Xbox 360 port had anything to do with FF13′s gameplay design? FF13 is what it is because of SE’s HD development process and the ideas of the people in charge of the game, not the 360 port.

          I think multiplat would be the way to go for all their upcoming games. It can only be beneficial to their sales I think.

          • PrinceHeir

            actually in the case of FFXIII, yes it had an impact on the development, it’s like your already making your game at about 50% but you suddenly scrap some of it due to suddenly porting the game on a system that is very different from your initial one.

            i also read that the amount of content that was cut can actually fill a new game according SE.

            if your gonna make a game multiplatform, make sure you do it from the start not midway of the development time.

          • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

            Excellent point. I don’t know if that is true, but if (and a big if at that) FFXIII was hurt by being multiplatform, it was because of Square’s unsound decision to port midway, not because of BS like the 360 is less capable or that multiplatform is inherently bad. What really happened in those years? The world may never know…

            And yes, developing multiplat simultaneously from the beginning is always better than porting later.

        • http://twitter.com/RyougaZell RyougaZell

          Lets don’t forget either that the Atlus already tried to make an SMT on the Xbox…. Shin Megami Tensei NINE and it failed horribly.

          • DDanny

            Yeah, because pretty much nobody had a XBOX in Japan in the first place. I still don’t get why the heck Atlus chose to release it as xbox exclusive, it was doomed to fail no matter how good the game was. Same for the supposed online part that got canned.
            As for the game quality, it seems pretty good from the video playthroughs I’ve seen in NicoNico, feels a LOT closer to SMT1&2 than Nocturne. The OST is also very good, with a lot of remixes from the older main games.Can’t comment on the story though…

        • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

          I like to believe FF’s multiplatform decision affected nothing but development time/length. Whether or not that’s truth I don’t know but that’s what I believe.

          Unless the doods at Atlus are optimization wizards assisted by Sony’s first party studios, it’s unlikely developing solely for the PS3 will yield any creative or technical advantages.

          If it’s any comfort, judging from the Catherine covers for the 2 systems, there’s a good chance that PS3 is likely Atlus’s lead platform.

        • Devonian

          FFXIII would have been just as terrible as a PS3-exclusive…

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

        Let’s not. I’d rather the developers have the biggest palette possible to work with.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          And the biggest possible palette is the multiplatform market.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Can I ask you a question? …now, I could be totally wrong about this, and I’m asking you to please correct me if I am, but I could’ve sworn you once said that you didn’t own a PS3 yet. Am I right about that?

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Yup, I don’t own a PS3. But that honestly has nothing to do with this debate. I do the majority of my high-definition gaming on PC, which Catherine isn’t coming to anyway. My point is that going multiplatform is in everyone’s best interest.

            Sure, there are some VERY rare situations where that isn’t the case, but by and large, multiplatform is smarter, more accessible and increases the reach of your product significantly. If you plan for a multiplatform game from the start of development, it will have little effect on the quality of your product if you’re an able developer and make the effort required to be multiplatform. The pros far outweigh the cons.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            You did say the majority of your HD gaming was on PC, which does imply that the minority is still on a 360.

            The reason why I bring it up is that I can understand someone not wanting to be unable to play the games they want. So, it makes sense that you’d be against my wishes for certain titles to be exclusive. I just wanted to be clear on motivations and my beginning to feel like I was being singled out.

            Things are crystal now.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            It isn’t about singling you out, and nor is it about what consoles I own or don’t own. For all you know, I may not own a 360 either, or maybe I can’t afford to buy a 3DS which is getting a lot of support next year.

            What I want or don’t want doesn’t matter. It’s about being commercially viable. This is why I don’t like to complain about upgrades or rehashes. In this market, multiplatform is the smartest choice, especially for a publisher like Atlus that’s looking to reach out and expand to new audiences.

            You feel singled out because you’re one of the few that doesn’t seem to want to understand that exclusivity isn’t in anyone’s best interest.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Well, let me ask you another question, since you don’t seem to get my exact problem with this whole attitude that everything must be multiplatform…can you tell me why it is that I have never once complained about a PC version of any title? If they announced every single PS3 exclusive that I enjoy would be heading to the PC tomorrow, it wouldn’t bother me in the slightest. Why should it? I don’t own stock in Sony.

            So, why would one bother me and not the other?

          • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

            Wow, Mr! how can you not have a PS3? They are now more low cost than ever! Surely you are missing out!

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Because in this line of work, you spend more time researching and writing about games than actually playing them, haha. Honestly, most of my gaming happens on my laptop and on portables because they’re more convenient and I can play on the go, in bed etc. :)

            No point buying too many systems when I barely have time for all the ones I currently own, you know? I’d rather buy more games for those (and even then, my “pile of shame” of unfinished games is kind of large…)

          • SolidusSnake

            A video game reporter with no time to play games is kinda tragic, like the circus clown crying underneath his makeup :’(

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Haha, a lot of game developers (and our friends in the media) are the same. But hey, we wouldn’t be doing this if we didn’t enjoy it. We enjoy talking to developers and learning about their games and companies as much as we enjoy actually playing the games themselves. When you’re passionate about something, you start to take more of an interest in how it actually works, as opposed to how it’s presented. :)

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

      Let’s very much hope so. I’d hate to see the games compromised at all, to be able to fit Microsoft’s three-disc limit.

      • malek86

        I thought Lost Odyssey was 4 discs? Are you sure there’s a limit on that?

        • krokounleashed

          LO has 4 discs. That’s bullshit.

          • malek86

            Ah, so I remembered well.

            Anyway, I think some people are probably setting themselves up for a disappointment. Persona 3 and 4 weren’t exactly massive games. They took place in a single city and in randomized dungeons. In fact both games, despite having a lot of dubbed dialogue, could neatly fit in a single-layer disc, with lots of space left for good measure (which makes me wonder if they couldn’t go for dual language).

            Even taking HD into account, I doubt an eventual Persona 5 would reach the scope of games like FF13 or Lost Odyssey.

          • https://twitter.com/#!/SplashdownTiger STiger

            ‘Cause Disqus commenting system won’t enable me to reply to your comment above… Bayonetta is of lesser quality on PS3 than 360 because that’s what happens when you port a 360-developed game to the PS3. Quality is lost. It’s like what happens when converting RAW audio to MP3.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Actually, I’m going to correct myself on the Lost Odyssey thing, as I didn’t know that Microsoft themselves published it, which would mean they wouldn’t have to waive any particular rule. Now, it makes total sense.

            See, here’s the thing I’ve been able to get from the ID interviews: If you’re a third party publisher, you have a limit before you have to start paying Microsoft additional royalties per disc. Technically, you could make a 20-disc game, but you’d probably make nothing from it, due to how much extra you’d have to pay Microsoft.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

          http://www.1up.com/news/rage-held-xbox-360-limits

          In another interview, I saw he mentioned that Microsoft had a limit of three discs. I assume that Microsoft either didn’t have that rule previously or waived it for Lost Odyssey because at the time they were trying to get the JRPG market. Lost Odyssey did come out way before this article, so maybe it’s something new they’ve done.

          EDIT: Microsoft themselves published Lost Odyssey. Did not know that previously. Now, it makes sense as to why it’d have more discs than they regularly allow.

          • malek86

            That article is a bit… weird. He says that the PS3 has 25GB of space for data? That’s news to me, I thought it could read dual-layer BRs too.

            Also, he says they are trying to fit the game in two discs, not three.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            I just picked up the first article on it that popped up, but you get the general idea. I could’ve sworn the limit was three discs before they start charging, but maybe it is two. Either way, Microsoft still start charging you more after a certain number of discs. If it is two discs, I could see why a larger company like Squeenix could afford the fee for an extra disc, while I doubt a smaller one like Atlus could.

            And yeah a few PS3 games were dual-layered discs, like God of War 3 and MGS4, but I’m guessing the game would’ve fit on a 25G disc, so he didn’t mention dual layered. A 25G disc is still more data than two 360 discs, which are what? 9-11G, I think. I’m too lazy to look it up properly right now.

          • malek86

            A DVD-DL could technically contain up to 8.7GB, but from what I know, MS forces developers to put some security data in the discs. That’s why the biggest single-disc game on 360, which is Black Ops i think, comes at 6.9GB.

            A two discs game for 360 could probably have a little less than 14GB of data max.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            6.9GB? Okay, so let’s round it up to 7GB. That means 3 DVD’s in, at 21GB, you still wouldn’t have filled in a 25GB Blu-Ray, so yeah, I’m just going to assume he only mentioned a single layer Blu-Ray because even if they had gone three 360 discs, that could’ve still fit on a single-layered PS3 disc.

    • neon6

      That ain’t gonna happen. If the Persona series finally found some real success with the super anime style introduced in 3 and 4, why would they want to stop now?

      • PrinceHeir

        i think Persona 5 should keep the anime style while the new Shin Megami Tensei gamew should be like Nocturne or Digital Devil Saga, Cellshading :D

  • HarryHodd

    Can’t wait to see what they bring. My PS3 needs more Atlus games.

  • puchinri

    I’m excited for anything they’ll announce. ♥
    But I’ll be honest, another SMT like Nocturne wouldn’t be bad. At all.
    And P5 would be welcomed.

  • Hraesvelgr

    Knowing Atlus, one title will probably be P3PS3. New FES content with the female main character! No more “point and click” town controls! Slightly altered s.link and event scenes!

  • http://vanilladice.deviantart.com/ Dice

    This Persona, I’d like a dungeon that let’s me…like, hit a switch, drain a lake, solve a riddle…. something, …ANYTHING than run up another 200 floors of dungeon.

  • http://twitter.com/Kyogissun Philip Irwin

    P4P on 3DS plzkthnx.

    • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

      Itd probably be wiser to put it on psp where they have already cultivated a fan base for persona portable.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000301072427 Mark Shaver

      P4P on 3ds or PSP would be fine with me haha.

    • HarryHodd

      Hopefully Atlus does handheld and console games. Right now console games would be much appreciated.

    • http://www.facebook.com/Chrome.Cell Bernard Yanga

      P4P?
      You could have a Female MC that meanssss….

      Now the fangirls can know date Yosuke instead of seeing him hugging with the Male MC(Kind awkward seeing them hugging *Possible Spoilers:P*)

  • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

    Persona 5 please kthxbai!

  • http://chronotwist.deviantart.com/ JustThisOne

    Even though P3 and P4 were great and lighthearted, I would like to see a new SMT that returns to that grimdark atmosphere. Comedy and apocalypse can go hand in hand too.

    • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

      How was p3 lighthearted? Facing death is light-hearted?

      • Ren

        Have you ever played/read about/watched a gameplay video of Nocturne? Or DDS? Or DDS2? Or Persona? Or any Persona 2?

        Compared to any of the previous, P3(and P4 even more) is far more lighthearted. And you only really face death if you are bad at playing or at the end of the storyline, and even then, it’s not even that grim or dark.

        Go play a true SMT before you argue about it. And no, Persona games aren’t really ‘true’ SMT games. Persona is a sub-franchise, to the point it’s normally maketed as it’s own franchise in Japan.

        • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

          What, the story itself is super dark in P3, the tower, the moon being brought to earth, people bleeding, the dark hour and trasmogrification. It is as grim as P1.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            Super dark???????????? play nocturne or at least read up on it.

          • malek86

            He should try Baroque. I mean the original game, not the remake. I still haven’t seen any other RPG as dark and gritty as that one. Even Nocturne looks like Disneyland in comparison.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            To Malek86, what’s the difference between the PS2 remake and the original? Was it story content cut?

          • malek86

            Not really, it mostly boils down to the remake looking a lot more colorful, some of the voices being a bit weird (after all, part of the charm of Nocturne is the lack of voices), and the new soundtrack which has more of a beat. The original game was, like, mostly grey and black, had no voices whatsoever, and the soundtrack was gritty ambient/industrial, which has to be heard to be appreciated. Also, some character designs were changed to look a bit more anime-ish and less twisted.

            In terms of story, nothing has really changed, except the remake added a sort of post-game sidequest which results in a more upbeat ending.

            They did also add some backstories for the monsters, but I’m not sure if they also were present in the guidebook for the original game.

          • http://chronotwist.deviantart.com/ JustThisOne

            To Malek, I think that’s pretty much what’s it. The character designs, the colour palette and the music was a pretty big part of the atmosphere. I’m sure if P3/4 didn’t have such an uppity j-poppy soundtrack, and more of the like to P1/2, it would be very different. It’s also true that P3/4 uses more bright colours. I think that is what gives the illusion that everything is cheerful and lighthearted, when the storyline is actually pretty grim.

            Hm, I wonder if P2 remake is going to be extremely different then…

            And plus, people bleeding should be a regular thing in megaten games. :)

          • Ren

            I’m not saying the story is lighthearted by normal standards. But compared to the average SMT standard, it is, and I think this may be one of the points JustThisOne was making. Altough I think you do have a point with P1(after all, even Persona 2 isn’t as dark as the true SMT games), they could at least up the grim to a P2 point.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Seriously, Persona 3 is a light-hearted tale of whimsy next to Nocturne.

            Probably one of the reasons why Nocturne is such a favorite of mine.

    • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

      I’m not sure how to feel about that.

      On one hand, the SMT main line series has always been grimdark, so that would make sense. On the other, I feel like this gen of HD games has more than enough grimdark going for it already.

    • Devonian

      “P3″
      “lighthearted”
      WHAT IS THIS I DON’T EVEN

  • Xeahnort

    I think Persona team is waiting till next year and use Catherine as a balloon probe to see which platform sell more copies and then decide where to go

  • http://twitter.com/gabriel_may_uk Gabriel May

    A game that’s not Persona or Shin Megami Tensei.

    Because I need to catch up and with every new release, I sink into the Atlus abyss of infinity horrors.

    • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

      When FES came out and I couldn’t resist despite having the original, I abandoned my original save and started over because I wanted to begin everything with the new additions. It became something of a chore because I had gotten pretty far in the original save (40+hrs?), and then… P4 came out. GODDMN. I dropped FES and started P4, and then I realized if I kept playing the better polished, newer game, I was going to have a hard time going back to old one. But I wanted to finish P3. But P4 was so compelling. So, tearing my hair out, unable to decide at a crossroad, I just… stopped. Both.

      That was like, 3 years ago, before I got my PS3. And with each passing year, finishing both of those seem ever more impossible and unlikely.

      • http://thrust-the-sky.deviantart.com/ WildArms

        WTH MAN!! Persona 3′s ending is the BEST part of everything! YOU.HAVE.TO.BEAT.IT

        • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

          I will, I will. Sometime in my life. It’s just going to be very, very difficult because not having touched it for so long I’m going to have to start over… again.

          • http://thrust-the-sky.deviantart.com/ WildArms

            i had to start today again resonance of fate, since its been a good while since i last played X-x

          • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

            Yea it’s a little more boring and a little more painful each time I restart and don’t finish a game…

  • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

    Here’s hoping for a PS3-exclusive Persona and/or Shin Megami Tensei title. I know there are people who wants games to be multiplatform, but really, a 360 version is not going to do all that great in Japan, in the first place, and second, they really should have as much space to work with as possible. I mean, I wouldn’t be crushed if it was also on 360, but I’d really rather they go for something spectacular, rather than have to make a game that 100% has to fit within the 3-disc (or is it 2-disc…I’m confused on this now) limits of the 360.

    • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

      I guess it may depend on how Catherine does on 360, though in this day and age, why would any third party still consider doing exclusives?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

        You’re obviously not an artist. When I work on stuff, I want as few limits to what I can do as possible. If I’m given limits, I can still work within them, but it’s best to not have any.

        • hadjimurad

          “you’re obviously not an artist.” get over yourself. not wanting limitations has no link to artistic ability, especially since most art styles have rules, even if they are tacit. TS is obviously looking at it from a business perspective, which is how ATLUS is going to look at it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Art styles only have rules if you don’t have that much of an imagination. Some of us get bored when we have to conform to pre-existing standards.

          • hadjimurad

            haiku, etc. ad nauseum. pretty strict rules. what you mean is that you use your creativity to make art within rules. which is interestinly the exact opposite of what you claimed about being a true artist and linking that to a PS3 exclusive.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            So you are basing your entire knowledge of art, in all of its many, many forms on the rules of haiku. I see. The Divine Comedy is an example on the far other end of the spectrum. It’s a how-many hundred pages long poem? It doesn’t conform to the rules of haiku, but is it any less a work of art? Can you name for me the rules it does conform to? And if there are rules that it conforms to, did those rules exist before its creation?

            I can name poems that don’t rhyme. Songs that don’t repeat. Paintings made without paint. Sculptures made with living people. Just because some choose to follow a set of rules doesn’t mean all artists have to.

            Hell, look at Andy Kaufman. If you don’t think the man was one of the most brilliant performance artists of his time, you don’t understand the potential for art.

          • hadjimurad

            no, i gave haiku as the most obvious/common example of strict rules, followed by ,etc. ad nauseum which implies numerous other examples. your assertion that artists don’t want rules is still bogus, and is why i gave haiku as an example. you are basically implying that haiku is inferior to free verse. you have tried to shift the argument to “i like to not conform” a “a lot of great art has come from nonconformity” which is fine. your original argument that “you must not be an artist” because one is more limited is what i objected to.

            to specifically address the Divine Comedy point, i would say that it does falls into the ‘epic poem’ category, is divided into three equally long sections, each with 33 cantos, and all written in a consistent line and rhyme scheme. its an allegory for the soul’s salvation, and is philosophically based on Aquinas. to write such an epic work following such tight structural rules IS amazing, but i don’t see how that relates to your point.

            your whole paragraph starting with “i can name poems…” is funny because everything you listed follows rules and structure; it’s just that the rules are not rhyming or not repeating, etc. why are you implying that repeating songs are the standard? i would assume an artist like yourself would understand that there is no inherent standard–but once you choose, “this is a haiku” or “this is experimental” you automatically are operating under that set of standards. for example, if i attempt to write a stream of consciousness poem, but instead write a haiku, i fail and visa versa.

            in general, it is the impact of the content that is important regardless of whether the art followed tight rules or attempted to operate outside of popular norms (which is in itself a structure).

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            You, however, are missing my point. An “artist” wouldn’t set out to write or paint or create anything in particular. There’s few things that annoy me more than someone trying to ape the conventions of their so-called school of art.

            You seem to be mistaking an artist for one who follows an artist. An artist creates what they want and doesn’t set out to follow any one particular set of rules. Sometimes, that work becomes favored and rules are created around the original work, by people who miss the whole point and simply try to emulate what they saw.

            Did Picasso say, “I’m going to follow the rules of abstract art?”

            No, others, like yourself, who needed to understand something new, felt it had to fit within a set of rules.

            When Black Sabbath became the first metal band, they never set out to play “metal music.” Others, who followed created the category, based on things that Sabbath did frequently. Those things that were repeated were then dubbed the rules of “metal” music. The initial artists, however, never conformed to those rules, while those who followed did.

            Same with punk, which initially was a rebellion against mainstream music and then became a uniform. Johnny Rotten held his clothes together with safety pins out of necessity, due to being poor. Other people saw that and said, “If you are a punk, part of the look is having safety pins in your clothes.”

            What I am saying is that there is a difference between an artist and a mimic. Many people who think of themselves as artists are anything, but.

          • hadjimurad

            i agree with the spirit as this post. and i also hate when others ape their favorite artist. you may think that this is purely symantics, but i specifically wrote the word ‘tacit’ in my original post. my point is that rules and stucture exixt, regardless of their being consciously followed or not. there are a million limitations on an artist, and it is how they deal with them that creates new work. for example, Black Sabbath still was working within the rock music paradigm which had evolved from xyz. they molded it into something different, but the roots of rock structure is evident, and they certainly didn’t start from a clean slate, even if they consciously thought “let’s do something completely different.” i’ve played experimental music for years, and at first i thought i was operating outside of structure, but it becomes pretty evident that i was still working within rules, just that maybe the tempo would shift or the time signature was 13/8 or we were playing dissonant notes. once again, my point is that the structure of art always exists, and it is just how the artist chooses (consciously or not) to arrange within it that creates either a portrait or a pollock. my main gripe with you was that you said that artists want complete freedom from rules or constraints. i would say that some, choose a strict limitation freely (like haiku) in which to excercise their creativity. i may even venture to say, that after many years in various ‘experimental’ scenes, it takes more talent to make something artistic within strict limitations.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Ah, I think I’m starting to get where you’re coming from. I think a lot of our difference of opinion comes from you probably being more of a music theory person than I am. I’m pretty much self-taught and must admit to zoning out a couple times when the two members of my band that were music theory people would start on about time signatures and the like. I can’t read sheet music. I don’t even know what key the songs I’ve written are in.

            I just make what I make and as long as it sounds good, that’s all that’s ever mattered to me. I’ve had members though who would say, “Oh, you’re using ______ technique in that one part” or “Oh, so that does a counter-rhythm on a __/__ time signature” and I’d just kinda shrug and say, “I dunno.” I’m basically the musical equivalent of Rain Man.

            But you are right, that most of what we do does fall into some category or the other. It’s just what I’m saying is that I feel it’s just mimicry, instead of art, when you consciously try to stick yourself within any set of particular rules. I have this thing where I feel that reducing art to mathematics strips the art of its soul.

            I’ve written prose, poetry, music, as well as having done several performance art pieces and I try to never think of the process behind what I’m doing, just the end result.

            But having worked with music-theory people, I guess it’s the difference between having a formula before mixing chemicals, knowing what the results will be, and being the guy who says, “When I throw in a little of the green one with a lot of the blue one, it doesn’t explode,” if that makes any sense. I can’t understand their way of thinking, but I can respect it.

          • hadjimurad

            you basically summarized it in the last post. it’s been a long debate/discussion! honestly, when writing, i’m like you. i rarely think about theory, because i’m not good with it. others have pounded it into me though. but if you connect that long discussion back to multi-platform v. exclusive debate, maybe you wouldn’t be so against PS360?

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Okay, well, it ties back to a multiplatform title, because if I were developing a game and I knew it was going to be designed for both platforms, I would have to try to fit everything I wanted to do within a framework of 14GB maximum, if I’m not at a larger company. I’d have to factor in where the 360 discs would be split, whether or not I would have to have a pivotal event in the middle, whether or not to try to fit all the actual game assets into both discs, while leaving audio and time-specific cutscenes amongst the two, whether or not I could fit dual audio, etc…

            If I make it a PS3 exclusive, I still have a limit of how much space I can use for the game assets, but it’s a lot larger limit. I can go up to 50GB.

            So, if I had to design two versions of the same game, my ideas would be more ambitious with a PS3 exclusive than a multiplatform title, simply because of the limitations the DVD format and Microsoft’s royalty policies would bring to the table.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          I don’t think “artist” has anything to do with anything here. Artist or not, Index’s (Atlus’ parent company) profits are not where they would like them to be, and multiplatform is the most obvious decision to make when you want to stay in business.

          Also, I would argue that any “artist” would like as wide a range of people as possible to be exposed to his work, so again, from that point of view, multiplat makes more sense. This whole “PS3 exclusive” obsession of yours that you keep bringing up in discussions is inane.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            No, the purpose of an artist is not to get his work to as many people as possible. That’s the purpose of a salesman. Those are two very different things. If the purpose of an artist was to appeal to the wider masses, there would be no such thing as underground…well, anything. Everyone would just make whatever was popular, in the hopes of appealing to as wide a group as possible. It’s the difference between wanting to be a rock star and wanting to be a musician who happens to play rock music.

            The purpose of an artist is to bring out what’s in their heart and mind. Not to appeal to whatever is commercial. If what is in their heart happens to be what the mainstream like, well, that’s one thing. But an artist should never think of commercial reward when creating something.

            Even Inafune knew that when he spoke of the poor sales of the Clover titles and he said their producer did a poor job of selling the games.

            “Games are not a work of art. It’s actually a product. If we think of it as a work of art, then… when we think about Picasso and Van Gogh’s paintings, the end result is beauty, so it doesn’t matter if you sell it or not. However for games, it’s a product. It is a commodity. The producer has to think about that.”

            In other words, I can see where the producer of the game might want it to be multiplatform, as it’s his job to sell as many games as possible. However, the developers, as artists, should see things in terms of wanting the biggest palette possible.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            I’m afraid the comparison to simple “art” doesn’t quite work here. A game (like comics, like movies, like cartoons etc) is art, yes, but it is also a collaborative effort where you can’t have different visions across the team. Games especially, on the grounds of being interactive, are very complex to develop, and you need to have laser-thin focus if you want your product to do what it was intended to. You can’t have a director make a game that isn’t commercially viable and blame marketing for not being able to sell it.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            So, are you saying that Inafune is wrong here and that they should’ve stopped the creation of a title like Godhand, which was the exact opposite of a commercially viable title?

            I say this because I see a difference between art and commerce myself. I’m currently the writer on a somewhat high-profile someone’s autobiography. Even though it’s a fun project, it’s not what I would ever say defines my writing, so I wouldn’t describe it as my art. It’s basically a way to get money and promote my name, so as to enable me to be able to publish the novels that I truly feel do come from my heart. Those, I could care less about the sales of, as long as they are out there. This book, since it is a purely financial concern, I want to sell as much as possible of.

            Art and commerce can work together, but they are two different schools. This is where I find myself agreeing with Inafune a bit, where he says: “they are wonderful games I think, the job of the director was fantastic. But the producer didn’t do his work. The producers work is to make the team make good games and then sell those games. The producer has to do the promotion. They have to think about the promotion. The producer has to take those good games and think about how to deliver it to as many users as possible. Certainly to get good reviews is part of his job. However, the producer has to make sure the game sells [on par with the review]. I think the producer dropped the ball there. Capcom said they would do it, but Clover said “Oh, we’ll do it ourselves.” And I think this was a failure.”

            Still, I can’t imagine Godhand would’ve sold no matter who the producer was. And I say that as a huge fan of the game.

    • endaround

      1/2 of P4 sales were outside of Japan. The only reason Catherine is on the 360 is for foreign markets.

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

        Yeah, but do you think Catherine’s 360 sales are going to even be 50% of the PS3′s sales, even in NA? In Japan, I can see it being 80/20 PS3/360. In NA, it’ll still be maybe 60/40 PS3/360, maybe even 70/30. But on the other hand, Atlus doesn’t usually aim for unrealistic Namco numbers, so I don’t think they expect to sell more than, say, 50,000 on NA 360, anyway.

        • endaround

          The 360 is the dominant console in the US. No reason for them not to expect fairly even sales across the platforms ie 60/40 360/PS3. Why would the PS3 version sell better? 360 multi-platform releases always dominate. Now partially that’s due to multiplayer which doesn’t matter but no reason to expect the PS3 version to win out.

          My guess is that they are estimating 6 digit sales in NA for Catherine

          • HarryHodd

            Many Japanese games sell better on the PS3in the west such as Nurato and dragon ball. Stop with this everything sells better on the 360 crap.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            Man, Microsoft’s Ministers of Propaganda certainly have done their job with you.

            Always dominate? Hahaha…You don’t look at sales numbers, do you? We aren’t talking about a WRPG like Skyrim or Fallout, here, where, yeah, the 360 sales would blow away the PS3 sales. We’re talking about JRPG’s, a genre that traditionally sells more on PS3 across the board. The only time a JRPG sells more on 360 in North America than PS3 is when the PS3 version is a year-old port, like in the case of Star Ocean International and Eternal Sonata. Otherwise, JRPG’s sell more on PS3, even in North America. Final Fantasy XIII, Nier, Resonance of Fate, etc… Not to mention, the fact that the majority of new non-portable JRPG’s are PS3-exclusives nowadays. If you don’t want a portable system and you love JRPG’s, you buy a PS3. It’s very simple.

            On a side note, another genre that always sells better on PS3…fighting games. With the exception of Soulcalibur IV (which makes no sense to me because the 360 got friggin’ Yoda!), EVERY fighting game of this generation has sold better on PS3 than 360.

            Learn to look at what audiences tend to buy which systems. Certain genres sell more on PS3 and certain ones sell more on 360. You’re obviously just assuming that because some do better on 360, all must do better on it. Very far from the truth.

            If this were a multiplatform shooter we were talking about, I’d never question the fact that it would probably sell better on 360. But if we’re talking JRPG’s, there is no debate here. PS3 will sell better in all territories.

          • endaround

            SF4 sold better on the 360 in NA than on the PS3. Resonance of Fate sold a whopping 14K more on the PS3. Yes FF13 sold 300K more but that really says more about a crappy port than most else. Not sure why you want Atlus to cut off it audience for no discernable reason.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            How did Super do? How did the two BlazBlue titles? How did KOF12 do?

            And no, the 300,000 FFXIII difference was NOT because it was a crappy port. Are you honestly telling me that you think that 300,000 people said, “I would have bought this for 360, but I hear the cut scenes are compressed, so I’ll buy it for PS3.” Really? Had nothing to do with the majority of 360 owners not really caring for Japanese RPG’s or there being a segment of the population that bought PS3′s purposely because they were expecting JRPG dominance to carry over from the PS2 days.. Absolutely nothing, I am sure. Stop drinking Bill Gates’ Kool-Aid.

            And if you read what I said, it wouldn’t break my heart if they made it multi-platform, but it’s still going to sell more for PS3, but no, you were all, “OMG! COD SELLZ MORE = EVERYTHING SELLS MORE! PS3 SUX!!”

            I even tried to take the high road and say that I imagine Atlus would just make low sales forecasts for any 360 P5, so that they’d sell what they expect. Meanwhile, look at their sales expectations for their two PS3-exclusives. Demon’s Souls and 3D Dot Game Heroes. They had pretty low expectations for both and they sold way more than Atlus ever thought.

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_YRUCHRP6FPI5QJ6K73SUEHISIQ adfadf

    I dont care what it is as long as it is PS3 Only

    We dont need compromised 576p games because the 360 cant handle it and M$ has to bitch around and pay them 3 Billion $ for deleting content.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      I don’t think atlus are like namco bandai :S

    • Yusaku_Matsuda70s

      Wow I like PS3 exclusive games, but that is NOT a good reason why any game should be PS3 only.

      Outside of FFXIII, games with compromised resolutions (on top of smeared textures, missing ambient occlusion, parred down particle effects, pixelated self-shadows, screen tearing, frame skipping, mandatory installs, and happy meals) are usually found on the PS3 side of multiplatform.

      From a developer’s point of view, games should be exclusive from a combination of the following:

      1.) The developer only has the resources to focus on one platform.
      2.) It pushes the system to its limits through a tightly optimized engine that would be a pain to port to other systems.
      3.) It will sell much better on a certain platform, with the sales on the other likely to be so negligible there’s no point in doing it.
      4.) It is backed by the console-maker’s cash, the dev has loyalties to the console-maker, or the console-maker has 50%+ stock in the company.
      5.) As a console-maker backed product, it competes with a similar product only found on a rival console, giving 1-console owners a taste of what they might be missing.

  • urbanscholar

    hee-ho!

  • http://www.facebook.com/people/Daniel-Morandi/100000837836996 Daniel Morandi

    Persona 3DS ;D

  • http://pulse.yahoo.com/_XA6XUSURPM6FHULXVVJAENRG4Y Tanto

    Let persona 5, tensei 5 be ps3 exclusives

    keep a potential devil survivor sequel on the 3ds.

    • Shadow_Raskolnik

      Why keep them as PS3 exclusives?

      Wouldn’t it be better if they made future titles multiplatform like Catherine in order to expand their fanbase and get more sales.

      • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

        If they make the first entry on the multiplatforms (and aim for equal experiences) then they can cultivate a fanbase. I have to agree with you Shadow and wonder why they would keep them as PS3 exclusives. This isnt Square Enix where quality will suffer and the games will span more than 2 discs…

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

          Who are you? This is like the total opposite of what you would’ve posted a week ago. My god, man, you need a youtube show or something.

          • https://twitter.com/#!/Ojsinnerz Firo_Prochainezo

            I think theres two Tsunayoshi Sawadas here. One that loves graphics so much that he’ll ignore everything else and the other with somewhat of an idea what he talks about.

          • Darkrise

            Honestly, that just scares me. But the question is, which one is the one who wouldn’t play a game if it had no voice acting as well as the need for a walkthrough for every game?

      • http://thrust-the-sky.deviantart.com/ WildArms

        Because i have ps3 and i love ps3, THAT IS WHY, GOT A PROBLAM YO!?

  • malek86

    Let’s see if Atlus defies us all, and makes P5 for the PSP. After porting all their previous games to the console, it almost seems like a logical move.

    Or maybe they’ll make it for another console and at the same time publish P4P. After some months, they can port the game as P5P, to make even more money! Brilliant!

    In that case, the game could probably be made for the 3DS, since it would make it easier to port it to the PSP, compared to other more powerful consoles. They could even have the same graphical quality, if they develop it with both portables in mind from the start.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

      I really hope they don’t put P5 on PSP, I think I’d look awful bald, and I’d probably tear all my hair out if that announcement was made.

      • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

        OMG, why are people so fixed on graphics? lol. As long as the game and experience is fun then that is all that matters.

        I think P5 would be on PSP2…would they really spend, what is it, as much as a Wii game to put it on the 3DS?! That system seems pricey to develop for.

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tommy-Lee/518924335 Tommy Lee
          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            LOL! maybe he has a split personality and doesn’t relise that his other self posted that.

          • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

            lol, That goes above and beyond just speaking of graphics, dude!

          • http://www.facebook.com/people/Tommy-Lee/518924335 Tommy Lee

            Yeah. One sentence about music. That’s it.

          • Aoshi00

            How many tails has Tsuna grown now, he went thru another awakening :)

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

          You must’ve responded to someone else, as I didn’t mention graphics anywhere in my post.

          On the other hand, someone else must be on your account, as you’re usually the first to talk about graphics.

          • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

            I think you have the wrong Tsuna. Im all about the gameplay, dude! lol.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

            I was unaware you were legion.

          • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

            Dude, lol, you crack me up!!!! Hilariously awesome!!!

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000301072427 Mark Shaver

          I’m not even going to argue the logical Fallacy in your first paragraph.

          But you do realize PSP2 games are supposed to have Graphics similar to a PS3, right? I’m fairly confident that, without even doing any research, a PS3 game costs way more to make, on average at least, thana Wii game.

          • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

            I think the PSP2 would be less costly to developer for, or in this case releasing a Persona game which doesnt already push any barriers, would be easy and cost friendly to put on the device. Even if they go with 3DS they have to like implement that 3D and then the bottom screen stuff. Simple ports dont work on the DS anyway without modifications.

      • malek86

        But it would make sense, admit it!

        Ok, so it wouldn’t make that much sense actually. The series – especially Persona – is gaining steam in the west, while apparently losing popularity in Japan (sales numbers for the latest SMT games are quite lower than the numbers made in the 16/32-bit era).

        Releasing a new Persona game on the PSP would be like putting a bullet in the newfound western popularity. So i think we’re going to see it either on 360/PS3, or 3DS… but the latter is more difficult, because of how the demographics will probably turn out (see sales of SJ and DS, they weren’t that hot).

        I could see a new spinoff made for it, though. Maybe they could continue the Devil Summoner subseries on the PSP, it seems an interesting concept.

        • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

          Yeah, I think making another subseries just for the PSP would probably be the best choice, really.

  • Roses4Aria

    Please be Persona 5 on PS3 with social links intact and a male or female main character option and I’ll be happy! (Not gonna get into the whole PS3 vs 360 debate. I don’t really care if it’s a multi-console release as long as I can play it on PS3.)

  • DDanny

    Moar cyberpunk Law vs Chaos classic megaten plz… or at least things like Devil Survivor.
    P5 is obvious already, but I wonder if they’ll ditch the SLinks or not.

  • http://thrust-the-sky.deviantart.com/ WildArms

    Time to spam the next persona game’s opening millions of time again!

    • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

      Dude, like what?

      • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100000301072427 Mark Shaver

        When you first played a Persona game, didn’t you just sit there for like an Hour and watch the opening over and over again?

        “We are living our lives~~”

        • http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada

          I had listened to Dream of Butterfly so many times on youtube before the game came out, and then for P3, I just occasionally listened to them.

          The games opening that I just listed to over and over and over again was Star Ocean First Departure (I loved that song to death), and then the song to Blade Dancer Lineage to Light, awesome opening too.

      • http://thrust-the-sky.deviantart.com/ WildArms

        LIKE WATCH IT AND REWATCH IT AND REWATCH IT, AND FEEL GOOSEBUMBS AND WONDER HOW WOULD THAT GAME BE, i dont remember how many times ive spammed persona 3′s opening persona 3 FES opening persona 3 portable persona 4 (i remember i showed that opening to my lil bro so many times, he just cant forget it now) persona 1 (psp ver.) and persona 2 old ver/psp ver.

    • holyPaladin

      I rewatch P4 OP everytime I play P4! (when P4 just released on NA though)

  • http://www.facebook.com/supergokuken Alton Fisher

    Have you ever played/read about/watched a gameplay video of Nocturne? Or DDS? Or DDS2? Or Persona? Or any Persona 2?

    Compared to any of the previous, P3(and P4 even more) is far more lighthearted. And you only really face death if you are bad at playing or at the end of the storyline, and even then, it’s not even that grim or dark.

    Go play a true SMT before you argue about it. And no, Persona games aren’t really ‘true’ SMT games. Persona is a sub-franchise, to the point it’s normally maketed as it’s own franchise in Japan. (Edited by author 5 hours ago)

  • Testsubject909

    I’m so Bear-y excited that it’s making my skin crawl!

    Even though i don’t have any skin!

    YOOOHOHOHOHOHOHO! SKUUULLL JOKE!

    … Okay, so combining two bad jokes together does not make it any better.

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=1472407455 Charles Lupula

      Teddy, no!

  • MarkMario

    So many comments in one day o_o
    I want Persona 4 on PSP or a new Persona game.

  • cj_iwakura

    Gaming company to release new games, news at 11.

    But seriously, yay.

  • http://www.facebook.com/Chrome.Cell Bernard Yanga

    Persona 5 on the PS2 so I could BUTTHURT you ASSH*LES!!!

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