Atlus’s Parent Company Index Holdings Is In Debt

By Spencer . April 15, 2013 . 5:19pm

imageIndex Corporation posted a significant loss for the second quarter. While they reached 5.65 billion yen ($58 million) in sales with games like Persona 4 Arena and Persona 4: Golden, Index posted a total loss of 2.263 billion yen ($27 million) for the second quarter of the fiscal year ending on August 31, 2013.

 

This loss left Index Corporation with 1.435 billion yen ($14.75 million) of debt for the end of the period. Index have not provided specifics surrounding the cause of their losses.

 

To fix this insolvency issue, Index will perform cost cutting measures such as reducing management personnel and reviewing the number of staff on hand. By doing this and increasing the amount of free cash flow, Index states they can pay back the debt.

 

For the remaining fiscal year, Index Corporation has Shin Megami Tensei IV, Dragon’s Crown, and New Etrian Odyssey: Millennium Maiden scheduled for release in Japan. When it comes to social games Persona 4: The Card Battle is doing well and so is Gantz. To Heart: Heartful Party and Devil Survivor 2: The Extra World were launched in March and April, respectively.


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  • Duc PC-QB

    Does this mean i cant have Persona 5 ?

    • Victoria [Rokuso3]

      Persona 5 would probably be their most popular game by far, so I don’t think so.

    • Shane Guidaboni

      If Persona 5 is coming out on PS3, which I think it is, when it releases, it will probably be Atlus’s/Indexes most popular game by far.

      • ShadowDivz

        True, but remember. If there are no games on PS4 then there is no reason to buy it.
        That said,it better be released on PS3.

        • http://twitter.com/Vietgeta VietGeta

          But it also goes both ways. If the PS4 doesn’t sell, then there’s no reason to make games for it. It’s mostly up to the Triple A games to sell the console before Atlus and a few others jump on it.

        • Raze

          http://i.imgur.com/En6m8BV.jpg

          Either way…
          2 years later they will make another one with bonus story/portable version of it…
          I’ll just wait for that….

          • ShadowDivz

            You really think you can?

    • http://www.cubiz.tk/ Auragar

      No, it means it might take longer though.

  • Tyler Harwood Simpson

    Bring us the girl, Index, and wipe away the debt!

    • Freud_Hater

      Hah… That’s pretty cool XD

    • Herok♞

      But what will the twist be, are they delivering the girl to Atlus?

      • mirumu

        Yes. They tell you that you must find your way to Makai and get Elizabeth to come back with you. Why she is there is unexplained.

        While attempting to complete the mission you realise that Elizabeth is destined to assume the role of CEO at Atlus and you (Index) never owned Atlus to begin with. Instead you were just some fan who became so obsessed with Atlus that you warped reality to horde the company’s output for yourself. Also you are Jack Frost.

  • Ethan_Twain

    Do we know which divisions of the company these losses came from? I had been under the impression that Atlus was doing pretty okay, but it’s also totally possible that Siliconera creates a pro-Atlus echo chamber where I would never learn if they weren’t doing well anyway.

    • cj_iwakura

      I’m concerned that Atlus has nothing to do with it. If they throw Atlus to the wolves to keep afloat, I won’t be happy.

  • JustThisOne

    Why or how? What was the problem?

  • foopy

    I hate to be that guy, but August 13, 2013 hasn’t actually happened yet.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Second quarter of their ongoing fiscal year (which ends on August 31st). Index don’t follow the April-March period like most other publishers.

      • Detrimont

        so it’s the current loss, or is it a loss prediction?

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          Index posted a total loss of 2.263 billion yen ($27 million) for the second quarter of the fiscal year ending on August 31, 2013.

          It was a loss for their second quarter.

          • Guest

            i’m confused, if it ends on august 31st of this year, how has it already ended

          • Detrimont

            ok, so it’s the second quarter’s loss, and the actual fiscal year ends on august 31st, if that’s so, you need to fix that in the article, because the way it’s written makes it so the second quarter ends in august

      • foopy

        I get it. Crazy that their year ends in August.

        Sorry for the misunderstanding!

  • JohnNiles

    Arrrgh. I can only see bad things coming from this.

  • http://twitter.com/Luimango lulu M

    Oh no!!

    One of my favorite game corporations :,(

    I wonder if SquareEnix will buy them

    • Solomon_Kano

      Definitely not lol. It’s not that bad. Even if it were, Square Enix has got their own losses to cover.

      • http://twitter.com/Luimango lulu M

        I kinda want to know how this happened though

        • brian

          Index does own quite a few companies, only one that comes to mind right now is Madhouse.
          And they seem to have lost popularity.

          • Ferofax

            Probably because there’s lots of other quality studios now, not just Madhouse, each with their own popular moeblobs.

          • Spirit Macardi

            Index owns Madhouse? I never knew that.

            Oh my god, I now want to see Atlus make a Trigun or Hellsing Ultimate game! :D

          • z_merquise

            I really wanted to see a Trigun RPG game with battle system similar to Resonance of Fate. With all of the crazy gun-fights, huge, over-the-top weapons and all that, like in the anime and (especially) manga.

            A Hellsing game by Atlus would be pretty cool too.

          • puchinri

            I suppose it helps that they have a pretty popular show like Chihayafuru, but I can see how it is hard to keep up with other companies. (And I’d want to say more Fukumoto works would help boost their popularity, but I’m sure that those are hard to pump out.)

            I certainly hope things improve for Madhouse and stay (supposedly) steady/well for Atlus.

          • landlock

            The problem is though though it might be popular on TV but the DVD sales were awful for season 1. triple digit awful.

          • puchinri

            Were they really? That’s pretty surprising. I can’t personally think of any merch for it either and how that might have done.
            Hopefully season 2 will do much better.

    • Farid Belkacemi

      I may be wrong, but I think Square Enix hands are already full at the moment :p

    • ★ Wolfgang Wozniak

      Don’t say that shit.

    • ★ Wolfgang Wozniak

      Don’t say that shit.

    • Testsubject909

      I’ll have nightmares if they do….

  • SirRichard

    Now I see why they’ve got Atlus firing on all cylinders, they’ve been really pushing to cover their losses and eliminate the debt. I don’t see them touching Atlus during these revisions, not with the numbers they’ve been spinning.

  • MrTyrant

    How did this happen anyway?

  • Laith Rem

    Yeah considering Atlus is pulling their numbers up, I don’t think they get rid of it. Maybe some cut personal here and there but nothing game-changing.

  • new_tradition

    Erk, now I feel bad about not preordering Soul Hackers D:

    • MrTyrant

      It shouldn’t be a problem if you are going buy it after.

  • Albert Calderon

    I’m happy that Atlus can fix their issues. I am a loyal fan of Atuls and they know not to shaft their customers.

    • jeb

      You should move to Europe.

      • Ouch My Head Said Dionysus

        That’s not entirely fair to say, as Atlus don’t have a EU branch. Atlus not publishing games in the EU isn’t the same as Square-Enix depriving the EU PSN of everything except Final Fantasy.

        • Ladius

          This isn’t really an excuse when NISA is able to bring their games (and some of Atlus USA’s, too!) to Europe practically at the same time as their US releases and XSEED is far more proactive in Europe thanks to their direct digital publishing on PSN, despite both of them being smaller than Atlus USA.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=594742092 Robert M Fenner

            NISA has an EU branch now, though. Atlus is still relying on other publishers to help them.

        • jeb

          The P4A region lock said it all.
          I know fans are going to try to excuse this, saying they did it to save their japanese sales and whatever, but here is the thing…that’s exactly it, they made the call to go for the money at the expense of their fans, which they know fully well will be the ones suffering at this, this is a far cry from the motherly figure fans like Jose make them out to be.

          • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=594742092 Robert M Fenner

            Well Jeb, it’s officially coming out on 16 May in the UK. Is it really such a slap in the face to have to wait 9 months?

            Ultimately Atlus are a business, not a motherly figure. They are concerned with profits first and foremost. Capitalism sucks, but at least it’s coming out here soon.

          • jeb

            Yes, yes it is.

            The community is dead, and so is the hype, the game went from something that I pumped to get my hands on to so some thing I got tired of waiting for.

            Atlus does not have a European branch, though that in itself ignores the European fanbase, which has to go through hoops to import its game or wait ages to get it,but even after that Atlus flips the bird and region lock it.

            I feel like Atlus fans will ignore and excuse any thing Atlus does simply because its Atlus, had this been Capcom, they would have grabbed their pitchforks too.

            “Atlus never shaft their consumers,what? Europe, never mind them, its only 9 months, its okay”

            In other news, SMTIV has an 10$ extra price tag, but forget that, next gen games going from 60 to 70$, those greedy mother…

  • DesmaX

    Hope they recover. Seems really hard to win money in the industry these days…

  • brian

    WAIT.
    Atlus has connections to To Heart?
    Google has given me nothing relevant linking them.

    • Testsubject909

      I think it might be more of Index having connections to them. Maybe.

  • JB

    It’s worth noting that Index is not just comprised of the package games (Atlus) business.

    http://indexweb.jp/english/group.html

    As you can see, they have various other businesses that could be bleeding money in addition to / instead of Atlus.

    • outlawauron

      Shush, let’s not try and draw conclusions with full or complete information. Oh no, let’s go off of assumptions! :-D

  • TrevHead

    I hope Index has other assets that were causing the losses not Altus itself is to blame. I mean I thought Atlus was one of the most savvy devs/publishers out because they don’t over reach themselves.

    That said Altus could do ALOT better where Europe is considered imo (and they should be testing the waters with PC ports of their old games, considering Steam would allow them to easily sell a game to the whole globe, not just USA and Japan.

    Considering their love for Persona remakes and ports, it’s puzzling as to why they Haven’t put Persona 3 on Steam with abit of extra fluff to bring in the double dippers.

    • Testsubject909

      I got the vague idea that Steam is more of a NA/EU thing and not a JP region thing.

      • TrevHead

        No you are correct, but I bet there are more than enough PC gamers in the west to make up for Japan, Just look at Capcom and Dark Souls, In so much that PC is the lead platform for DS2.

  • Spirit Macardi

    I don’t see this being a problem in the future. Atlus seems to be their most profitable arm, so they aren’t about to cut back on them.

    The worst thing that could happen is Atlus becomes a solitary entity, which considering they’re already making enough money to be self-sufficient would mean that there would hardly be any difference in their output.

  • http://epiclyamazing.wordpress.com/ AzureNova
    • Guest
      • natchu96

        What the hell . . . I rehosted that exact link to the picture 30 SECONDS AGO O_O

        Glad people like it though.

  • http://www.cubiz.tk/ Auragar

    For the remaining fiscal year, Index Corporation has Shin Megami Tensei IV, Dragon’s Crown, and New Etrian Odyssey: Millennium Maiden scheduled for release in Japan. <— What about Devil Survivor 2: Break Record? I thought it was coming in the summer for Japan?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      BR is probably going to sell peanuts compared to the other three. It’s another lazy port like Overclocked, and I suspect people will treat it as such.

      • http://www.cubiz.tk/ Auragar

        It might sell “peanuts” but it is still a game. Besides for people like me who never bought the original if it does get localized will buy it. I mean I think they tried a little harder with this one in the fact that there is a second scenario included.

  • http://www.facebook.com/trevor.nicolaysen Trevor Nicolaysen

    Therefore the only one of those with a chance at failure (barring idiotic SE style sales assumptions) is Dragon’s Crown.

    I’m fairly certain Atlus is doing just fine. I wonder about other subsidiaries. I don’t particularly follow japanese companies, so has anyone been following Madhouse or anything else under or partway under the Index holdings umbrella?

  • Wake

    Bring us Persona 5 and wipe away the debt.

    • shion16

      A masterpiece like Persona game must require some years of development

  • jeb

    After what happened with P4A, can’t say I’m saddened by this.
    Yes, I can hold a grudge.

  • Vitonofrio del Rosso

    sigh, bring smtiv, dragon’s crown , soul hackers and ds2:ew to all the west one day :|

    • Testsubject909

      I’ve already got my pre-order for both PS3 and PSV versions of Dragon’s Crown.

  • Roxy

    Calling it. SMT x Fire Emblem cancellation. Random idea to begin with on a struggling system. This one is a no brainer.

    • Göran Isacson

      Nintendo 3DS, a system which has sold in the millions, a “struggling system”.

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YIP6EwqMEoE

      • Raze

        Uh…

        SMTxFE is for WiiU not 3DS

        • Göran Isacson

          So it is! I guess I must have thought of the latest games in the series for the 3DS and made a hasty judgment.

      • Ouch My Head Said Dionysus

        SMT x Fire Emblem is for Wii U, not 3ds.

    • http://twitter.com/adriangrayson Adrian Grayson

      Probably Nintendo pays the costs for that game, or they have some sort of deal. They can’t cancel that, and I think doing it would be stupid.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      This is not going to happen in a million years.

  • Adam Zaorski

    I got a great advice for them…

    EU RELEASES.

    Besides that I love Atlus, gonan buy some games from them now, which I didn’t have, like Catherine so they can refill their budget a bit. Atlus going bankrupt would be a total fking disaster.

  • http://geekorner.wordpress.com/ Geekorner

    Release your 3ds games in Europe, and you’d get more money. I mean, the hard work of making the games and translating them to English had already been done.

  • SupaPhly

    I seem to recall a message from atlus when they were bought out by index, they said that nothing could go wrong and it would meet better business opportunities

    • http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=594742092 Robert M Fenner

      Politics, yo. What else could they have said?

    • Testsubject909

      Maybe they meant better business opportunities for them (but not for Index)

    • MrSirFeatherFang

      Was that around when Atlus US published Demon’s Souls? Because after that they haven’t published really niche games anymore (Tokyo Beat Down for example)

  • Crazy_O

    One reason more to drop expensive english dubs and go with only subtitles. Let’s face it, it’s a niche market which should pander to its niche audience.

    • Spirit Macardi

      I’ve got news for you, the subs-only market is even more niche. Most people prefer to watch or listen to something in their native language.

      Plus Atlus themselves are earning enough to continue justifying the costs of English voice acting; it’s Index that’s struggling and it seems to be in no way due to Atlus’ income.

      • Crazy_O

        English is not my native language.

        Even if Atlus doesn’t struggle, I’d still save them money.

    • Luna Kazemaru

      I love how he has this whole statement backwards.

    • LynxAmali

      Stupid comment was stupid.

      Index also has MORE subsidiaries than just ATLUS, so that’s possibly where the debt is coming from.

      • Crazy_O

        I’m not interested in the other companies. Drop them for all I care. I talked about Atlus.

        Yes, stupid answer was stupid. Well I could have been clearer on that I’m only talking about Atlus. But I thought the context provided was enough. My bad.

        • LynxAmali

          But this article isn’t talking about ATLUS.

          This article is talk about Index Holdings, you know, the people that OWN ATLUS.

          That’s the point.

          • Crazy_O

            So Index Holdings won’t make more money when Atlus makes more money? Do I have to go through this step by step?

    • http://www.cubiz.tk/ Auragar

      Jap dubs still cost money to license even if they went with that, which would be silly because a lot of people prefer English dub, despite popular belief.

    • Testsubject909

      Wow…

      Hmm… I’d say something but… For one part, I doubt anything I say would sink in… And it seems some people down below have taken care of stating some obvious info.

    • Chiupon

      Some people do prefer to hear things in a language they understand + english voice actors need work too

      Potentially unrelated, but I hate when non-japanese speakers try to say subs are so much better when they can’t even tell that the japanese voice being presented to them is pretty terrible, they just don’t understand because THEY DON’T KNOW JAPANESE so it just sounds wonderful to them instead of forced and awkward.

      • Crazy_O

        I play PSO2 on japanese server atm. They frequently add new voices for your characters from popular seiyuus. I appreciate this and you definitely can tell the difference even if its in a language you do not understand.
        I recognized almost all of the popular cast in the game. The last game with bad japanese dubs I played was Moejong on the PSP. Look it up on youtube. Most people should be able to tell the difference.

      • amagidyne

        I agree with you, but I hate it when the argument you’re making is used to disparage people who (politely) ask for dual audio. There are degrees to language proficiency, and I think most non-Japanese students of the Japanese language fall somewhere between being a beginner and being fluent.

        Even if you understand most of the dialogue, having the subtitles there can be extremely useful when you reach a word you don’t recognize. Nobody wants to play an RPG with a dictionary in their lap.

        (But yeah, I get why companies rarely do dual audio and why subs only is a ridiculous and impossible idea for most games)

  • Chris Yuen

    Atlus, Let’s Survive.

  • Hector Velar

    Atlus needs to stop sucking up to Sony. Evidently Sony aint paying their bills. They need to start releasing their best titles (Disgaea, Odin Sphere, Granr Knight History, Dragon Crown, Musasama…..ect) to xbox and wii u. With this economy they need to get off that brainfart called “Exclusive” and reach a broader audience. more sales= more profit. now release those titles for xbox and take my money!

    • lozffvii

      I’m pretty sure that 100% of the games you’ve mentioned do not belong to Atlus.
      Disgaea is NIS.
      Odin Sphere, Dragon Crown and ‘Musasama’ (did you mean ‘Muramasa’?) are all Vanillaware.
      I have no idea what ‘Granr Knight History’ is.

      • MrSirFeatherFang

        Grand Knights History? It is a PSP game devloped by Vanillaware. XSEED was suppose to publish it in NA, but sadly due to Vanillaware being too busy, it was ultimately cancelled (translation was already complete too…)

  • http://twitter.com/elixir68k Elixir

    This is the source. Maybe this site will one day learn to provide them.

    http://gamebiz.jp/?p=101590

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Why would we source another site when we have direct acccess to Index’s financials ourselves?

      • http://twitter.com/elixir68k Elixir

        Why would you post information from Index’s financials and not actually post Index’s financials? At least the site I linked had the courtesy to provide evidence of the article they were writing.

        This is assuming that it wasn’t ganked from a matome blog, again.

  • $6618284

    If MS wants to gain a better foot hold in the Japan market, this would be an ideal purchase. Plus it would be nice to bring them over to their market here in the states plus it help provide diversity to their library.

  • Ferofax

    I’d rather this than Atlus going down with Index. Which means no more awesome games from them.

  • akiko_sakuraba

    That’s… Not expensive. At all. Most Japanese games when they are released in Japan are around $70, and that’s just for a normal edition.

  • Mozendo

    I don’t really care if it cost $50 since I’ve payed more for worse games. Not only that, but also seeing how fast the translation was.

  • Jirin

    When I saw the price point of $50 my first thought was: “This probably means SMTIV is the size of a console game despite being on a handheld.”

    If that assumption is correct, I’ll gladly pay $50. I’d rather pay $50 for a full size game than $30 for a scaled down game.

  • http://www.cubiz.tk/ Auragar

    One reason yes, and hopefully it will include some nice extras. *looking at you artbook*.

  • MellowMadman11

    I completely agree, atlus is a great company and i would hate for them to go under.

  • landlock

    Atlus and Madhouse going down with Index. That would be a sad day indeed.

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