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	<title>Comments on: Current Tales of Vesperia DLC won&#8217;t give you God-like characters</title>
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	<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/</link>
	<description>The secret level in the world of video game news.</description>
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		<title>By: Edgeworth</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-552193</link>
		<dc:creator>Edgeworth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:32:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-552193</guid>
		<description>@ Daizyujin

You DO realize that the point you&#039;re making is almost non-sensical?

I agree with you 100% that we shouldn&#039;t have to pay for DLC that does nothing more than unlock content that is already on the disc, that you wouldn&#039;t be able to get any other way.

That said, Namco is not doing this.

I&#039;m gonna repeat it since you seem thick-headed.  NAMCO IS NOT MAKING YOU PAY TO UNLOCK CONTENT ALREADY ON THE DISC.

Namco is simply adding the option (key word here, option, not mandatory) to download level ups (something you could get in the game through effort, they aren&#039;t locking you at a level different than those who bought the DLC, everything is the same except the people who buy the DLC don&#039;t have to work for it) or to buy in-game money (again, you could work for it if you wanted to).

By Namco adding this completely optional, non-important DLC to the game, noone is losing anything.  It&#039;s just Namco giving the less patient of us a choice to move through the game at a quicker pace.
THIS IS ALL IT IS DOING.  NOTHING ELSE. (except, I suppose, making Namco some more money)

tl;dr
Stop your elitist faggotry, kthxbai</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ Daizyujin</p>
<p>You DO realize that the point you&#8217;re making is almost non-sensical?</p>
<p>I agree with you 100% that we shouldn&#8217;t have to pay for DLC that does nothing more than unlock content that is already on the disc, that you wouldn&#8217;t be able to get any other way.</p>
<p>That said, Namco is not doing this.</p>
<p>I&#8217;m gonna repeat it since you seem thick-headed.  NAMCO IS NOT MAKING YOU PAY TO UNLOCK CONTENT ALREADY ON THE DISC.</p>
<p>Namco is simply adding the option (key word here, option, not mandatory) to download level ups (something you could get in the game through effort, they aren&#8217;t locking you at a level different than those who bought the DLC, everything is the same except the people who buy the DLC don&#8217;t have to work for it) or to buy in-game money (again, you could work for it if you wanted to).</p>
<p>By Namco adding this completely optional, non-important DLC to the game, noone is losing anything.  It&#8217;s just Namco giving the less patient of us a choice to move through the game at a quicker pace.<br />
THIS IS ALL IT IS DOING.  NOTHING ELSE. (except, I suppose, making Namco some more money)</p>
<p>tl;dr<br />
Stop your elitist faggotry, kthxbai</p>
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		<title>By: JeremyR</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-548110</link>
		<dc:creator>JeremyR</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 09:06:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-548110</guid>
		<description>It seems almost like a &quot;free&quot; MMORPG to me, though. Sure, you can play those for free, but in order to level up at a reasonable pace you often need to spend money on cash shop items. 

Same with crafting. Often you need cash shop ingredients to make the really good stuff.

This doesn&#039;t seem to be completely down that path, but it sure looks like they are taking a step towards it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It seems almost like a &#8220;free&#8221; MMORPG to me, though. Sure, you can play those for free, but in order to level up at a reasonable pace you often need to spend money on cash shop items. </p>
<p>Same with crafting. Often you need cash shop ingredients to make the really good stuff.</p>
<p>This doesn&#8217;t seem to be completely down that path, but it sure looks like they are taking a step towards it.</p>
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		<title>By: Daizyujin</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547920</link>
		<dc:creator>Daizyujin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 24 Aug 2008 00:04:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547920</guid>
		<description>The intelligence of today&#039;s consumers?  Is that a joke?  Seriously that makes me laugh.  I have addressed everything you said and this is like talking to a brick wall.  Later.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The intelligence of today&#8217;s consumers?  Is that a joke?  Seriously that makes me laugh.  I have addressed everything you said and this is like talking to a brick wall.  Later.</p>
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		<title>By: RagolSlayer</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547865</link>
		<dc:creator>RagolSlayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:38:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547865</guid>
		<description>I love how instead of actually addressing my points, you spend the time to write up a long paragraph just to rant about how somebody disagrees with you.

And about your comment about how consumers are more than willing to chug out money for DLC - you greatly underestimate the intelligence of today&#039;s consumers. The reason why most people have no problems with DLC is because they find DLC to be completely optional. When it gets to the point where gamers feel they need to pay extra for DLC just to play the game, then we&#039;ll talk.

I guess we&#039;ll just have to see what happens in the next five years. =D

About Vesperia - I thought your whole issue with DLC was that in order to get access to that data on the disc, you would need to pay extra? Last time I checked, you can still level in Vesperia without DLC. &gt;_&gt;.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I love how instead of actually addressing my points, you spend the time to write up a long paragraph just to rant about how somebody disagrees with you.</p>
<p>And about your comment about how consumers are more than willing to chug out money for DLC &#8211; you greatly underestimate the intelligence of today&#8217;s consumers. The reason why most people have no problems with DLC is because they find DLC to be completely optional. When it gets to the point where gamers feel they need to pay extra for DLC just to play the game, then we&#8217;ll talk.</p>
<p>I guess we&#8217;ll just have to see what happens in the next five years. =D</p>
<p>About Vesperia &#8211; I thought your whole issue with DLC was that in order to get access to that data on the disc, you would need to pay extra? Last time I checked, you can still level in Vesperia without DLC. &gt;_&gt;.</p>
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		<title>By: Daizyujin</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547860</link>
		<dc:creator>Daizyujin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 21:21:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547860</guid>
		<description>Honstly, I just think you are foolish.  This generation is the test phase.  They are trying to judge how far they can push it before consumers get pissed off.  Unfortunatly the market seems to be too willing to accept the idea of day and date dlc.  Seriously I don&#039;t see why you are so much on the side of the developers as a gamer.  It makes little sense to suggest they will not take it as far as possible.  Perhaps you have secret agenda or a link to the industry.  It sure does seem plausible.  Especially since you fail to see how naive you are being.  The basic point is that if they can do it, they will.  If you buy it they will keep doing it.  And honestly as for your comment about directors cuts, essentially the person who bought the original version was ripped off ie the double and triple dips on dvds.  As for music games, this is honestly the only area I can understand day and date dlc from the standpoint that the music is liscensed and the more songs added on the disc would raise the price of the game.  Your laissez-faire attitude is very disturbing.  One last thing I find it odd that I can compare the content downloaded in Tales to something that would be unlocked with a code that is typed at the title screen in the old days.  Seriously, look at EA&#039;s treatment in the Need for Speed series.  Instead of entering a button code they just have you enter your bank card code.  Personally I don&#039;t like to cheat, but I find it disturbing that such things are allowed.  And you said that you were against content being sold that is on the disc, but that is exactly what is happening with Tales of Vespiria.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Honstly, I just think you are foolish.  This generation is the test phase.  They are trying to judge how far they can push it before consumers get pissed off.  Unfortunatly the market seems to be too willing to accept the idea of day and date dlc.  Seriously I don&#8217;t see why you are so much on the side of the developers as a gamer.  It makes little sense to suggest they will not take it as far as possible.  Perhaps you have secret agenda or a link to the industry.  It sure does seem plausible.  Especially since you fail to see how naive you are being.  The basic point is that if they can do it, they will.  If you buy it they will keep doing it.  And honestly as for your comment about directors cuts, essentially the person who bought the original version was ripped off ie the double and triple dips on dvds.  As for music games, this is honestly the only area I can understand day and date dlc from the standpoint that the music is liscensed and the more songs added on the disc would raise the price of the game.  Your laissez-faire attitude is very disturbing.  One last thing I find it odd that I can compare the content downloaded in Tales to something that would be unlocked with a code that is typed at the title screen in the old days.  Seriously, look at EA&#8217;s treatment in the Need for Speed series.  Instead of entering a button code they just have you enter your bank card code.  Personally I don&#8217;t like to cheat, but I find it disturbing that such things are allowed.  And you said that you were against content being sold that is on the disc, but that is exactly what is happening with Tales of Vespiria.</p>
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		<title>By: RagolSlayer</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547831</link>
		<dc:creator>RagolSlayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 19:34:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547831</guid>
		<description>The reason why I disagree with you is that you&#039;re looking at a gust of wind and calling it a hurricane. 

You&#039;re saying that if we let companies like Namco-Bandai continue their current DLC model, they&#039;ll eventually start locking out content from the main game and all hell will break loose for gamers. Not necessarily true.

Let&#039;s look at your examples:

Beautiful Katamari - That was a mistake. Gamers called out Namco-Bandai like crazy on this. And so far, they haven&#039;t done anything similar since.

Ace Combat 6 - Extra planes, extra missions, new multiplayer modes as DLC. Nothing locked out of the main game here. Only people who have a complaint here are those who judge the value of their $60 by the amount of content instead of how much fun they had.

Tales of Vesperia - So far we&#039;ve seen level-up packs and item sets. Sure, we may see an extra dungeon or two, but they haven&#039;t locked out the main game itself. Level-up packs aren&#039;t necessary at all in an RPG amd item packs only serve to make your game easier. You can still play Vesperia fine (heck, I&#039;m playing the JPN version right now without any DLC).

Soul Calibur 4 - It&#039;s a fighting game. Costumes don&#039;t affect your enjoyment of a fighting game (unless you&#039;re playing it for a completely different reason). The equipment packs - dirt cheap and you don&#039;t even have to buy them unless you feel you must create the perfect characters (if that&#039;s the case just pay the 100 MS points!). Music packs - nope, not necessary. As for Yoda/Vader - most people bought the game under the pretense they&#039;d be getting only one of them. If they want to give players the chance to have both and make a bit of money on the side, be my guest. Could they have had both characters in the game to begin with? Maybe. But there&#039;s probably much that happens behind the scenes that most people aren&#039;t aware of.

Again, most DLC = you can still play your game and get your $60 worth. 

Judging from comments you&#039;ve made on other DLC posts, you&#039;re acting like even the mere idea of having DLC like extra content will cause this chain reaction that will lead to things like developers locking game endings for DLC. It may very well happen, but it won&#039;t be because people are buying DLC currently. You&#039;re barking up the wrong tree.

Then again, you&#039;ll probably just think I&#039;m emphasizing with the developers and ignore this.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The reason why I disagree with you is that you&#8217;re looking at a gust of wind and calling it a hurricane. </p>
<p>You&#8217;re saying that if we let companies like Namco-Bandai continue their current DLC model, they&#8217;ll eventually start locking out content from the main game and all hell will break loose for gamers. Not necessarily true.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s look at your examples:</p>
<p>Beautiful Katamari &#8211; That was a mistake. Gamers called out Namco-Bandai like crazy on this. And so far, they haven&#8217;t done anything similar since.</p>
<p>Ace Combat 6 &#8211; Extra planes, extra missions, new multiplayer modes as DLC. Nothing locked out of the main game here. Only people who have a complaint here are those who judge the value of their $60 by the amount of content instead of how much fun they had.</p>
<p>Tales of Vesperia &#8211; So far we&#8217;ve seen level-up packs and item sets. Sure, we may see an extra dungeon or two, but they haven&#8217;t locked out the main game itself. Level-up packs aren&#8217;t necessary at all in an RPG amd item packs only serve to make your game easier. You can still play Vesperia fine (heck, I&#8217;m playing the JPN version right now without any DLC).</p>
<p>Soul Calibur 4 &#8211; It&#8217;s a fighting game. Costumes don&#8217;t affect your enjoyment of a fighting game (unless you&#8217;re playing it for a completely different reason). The equipment packs &#8211; dirt cheap and you don&#8217;t even have to buy them unless you feel you must create the perfect characters (if that&#8217;s the case just pay the 100 MS points!). Music packs &#8211; nope, not necessary. As for Yoda/Vader &#8211; most people bought the game under the pretense they&#8217;d be getting only one of them. If they want to give players the chance to have both and make a bit of money on the side, be my guest. Could they have had both characters in the game to begin with? Maybe. But there&#8217;s probably much that happens behind the scenes that most people aren&#8217;t aware of.</p>
<p>Again, most DLC = you can still play your game and get your $60 worth. </p>
<p>Judging from comments you&#8217;ve made on other DLC posts, you&#8217;re acting like even the mere idea of having DLC like extra content will cause this chain reaction that will lead to things like developers locking game endings for DLC. It may very well happen, but it won&#8217;t be because people are buying DLC currently. You&#8217;re barking up the wrong tree.</p>
<p>Then again, you&#8217;ll probably just think I&#8217;m emphasizing with the developers and ignore this.</p>
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		<title>By: Daizyujin</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547646</link>
		<dc:creator>Daizyujin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 17:24:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547646</guid>
		<description>@RagolSlayerr

Only point I made eh?  Well it seems it don&#039;t matter what I say you are not going to listen so I suppose there is no point.  Regardless I find it odd that a gamer would be up for this.  It just seems to me more like the stance of a developer would take.  Regardless I do apologize for calling you a moron.  It was uncalled for.  But you need to kill the insulting comments.  That epic crusade bit was unnecessary.  I am just stating that the more people buy into it, the further the industry will take it.  They are business and that is exactly why gamers can&#039;t take this laying down.  Seriously though I can&#039;t think of too many newer games Namco/Bandai hasn&#039;t pulled this with.  Beautiful Katamari, Ace Combat 6, Tales of Vesperia, and the granddaddy of them all Soul Calibur 4 where we have seen proof that Vader and Yoda are in both versions.  Granted we don&#039;t know if they will charge for that update and for the sake of balance I don&#039;t see how they could but it is possible.  At least SF 4&#039;s director said if there was paid dlc it would be limited to costumes.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@RagolSlayerr</p>
<p>Only point I made eh?  Well it seems it don&#8217;t matter what I say you are not going to listen so I suppose there is no point.  Regardless I find it odd that a gamer would be up for this.  It just seems to me more like the stance of a developer would take.  Regardless I do apologize for calling you a moron.  It was uncalled for.  But you need to kill the insulting comments.  That epic crusade bit was unnecessary.  I am just stating that the more people buy into it, the further the industry will take it.  They are business and that is exactly why gamers can&#8217;t take this laying down.  Seriously though I can&#8217;t think of too many newer games Namco/Bandai hasn&#8217;t pulled this with.  Beautiful Katamari, Ace Combat 6, Tales of Vesperia, and the granddaddy of them all Soul Calibur 4 where we have seen proof that Vader and Yoda are in both versions.  Granted we don&#8217;t know if they will charge for that update and for the sake of balance I don&#8217;t see how they could but it is possible.  At least SF 4&#8217;s director said if there was paid dlc it would be limited to costumes.</p>
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		<title>By: RagolSlayer</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547269</link>
		<dc:creator>RagolSlayer</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 06:26:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547269</guid>
		<description>@Daizyujin - Congrats, you&#039;ve completely ignored the fact that I agree with you on the fact that nobody should have to pay for DLC that was already on the disc to begin with (only real point you had) and instead choose to patronize me simply because I disagree with you on your oh so epic crusade against paying for DLC of any form.

Internets is working!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@Daizyujin &#8211; Congrats, you&#8217;ve completely ignored the fact that I agree with you on the fact that nobody should have to pay for DLC that was already on the disc to begin with (only real point you had) and instead choose to patronize me simply because I disagree with you on your oh so epic crusade against paying for DLC of any form.</p>
<p>Internets is working!</p>
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		<title>By: Daizyujin</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547099</link>
		<dc:creator>Daizyujin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:05:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547099</guid>
		<description>One more thing.  I have been in games since the 2600 so I know what games used to cost.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>One more thing.  I have been in games since the 2600 so I know what games used to cost.</p>
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		<title>By: Daizyujin</title>
		<link>http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/comment-page-1/#comment-547086</link>
		<dc:creator>Daizyujin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 23 Aug 2008 05:00:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.siliconera.com/2008/08/22/current-tales-of-vesperia-dlc-won%e2%80%99t-give-you-god-like-characters/#comment-547086</guid>
		<description>RagolSlayer you are a moron.  Seriously stop caring about the industry.  It isn&#039;t your place as the consumer to give two craps about what is good for Namco/Bandai, besides most of your logic was equally flawed.  If people buy into it, it will get worse.  Take Toy Home on PS3 as an example.  You buy the game for $10.  Then after having it for a month you open it up to find it makes you download a 500 mb update.  After this you open the game and notice that there are a ton of things in the menus that are greyed out teasing you to buy the expansion pack.  That my friend is theft.  You obviously always intended it, the game had almost no content before hand (seriously the car roster was over trippled), and at $7 the expansion was nearly the cost of the game.  I bought it since it was my first real experience in this area and I kick myself ever since.  I felt like a moron when I bought it and found the update was 104kb.  In other words I had the content already, I was forced to get it despite if I had even bothered to buy it or not.  It was just completly locked out.  This is seriously one of the worst I admit but it is a prime example of just what can and will happen if people don&#039;t put their foot down.  Having the right to make money is not an excuse to rip people off.  Go hang out with guys from the Cato Institute if you think that is actually justifiable.  By the way, if you add up all the costs of some games dlc you will find it is far more than &quot;small change.&quot;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>RagolSlayer you are a moron.  Seriously stop caring about the industry.  It isn&#8217;t your place as the consumer to give two craps about what is good for Namco/Bandai, besides most of your logic was equally flawed.  If people buy into it, it will get worse.  Take Toy Home on PS3 as an example.  You buy the game for $10.  Then after having it for a month you open it up to find it makes you download a 500 mb update.  After this you open the game and notice that there are a ton of things in the menus that are greyed out teasing you to buy the expansion pack.  That my friend is theft.  You obviously always intended it, the game had almost no content before hand (seriously the car roster was over trippled), and at $7 the expansion was nearly the cost of the game.  I bought it since it was my first real experience in this area and I kick myself ever since.  I felt like a moron when I bought it and found the update was 104kb.  In other words I had the content already, I was forced to get it despite if I had even bothered to buy it or not.  It was just completly locked out.  This is seriously one of the worst I admit but it is a prime example of just what can and will happen if people don&#8217;t put their foot down.  Having the right to make money is not an excuse to rip people off.  Go hang out with guys from the Cato Institute if you think that is actually justifiable.  By the way, if you add up all the costs of some games dlc you will find it is far more than &#8220;small change.&#8221;</p>
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