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DS RPGs: Where’s My Plot?

By Ishaan . September 13, 2009 . 1:20pm

I first considered buying a DS back in late 2005. I’d played my fair share of GBA games and was I excited for the system’s successor. Like most people, I found the thought of a portable system with two screens incredibly curious. I wasn’t a skeptic though.

I’d had a chance to play the French version of Feel the Magic: XY/XX – aptly named “Project Rub” — which I’d loved and I’d seen screenshots of Mario Kart DS, which had also impressed me to no end. It was Mario Kart in 3D! On a portable! There was also the promise of the inevitable new Pokémon games, which alone would have driven me to buy whatever system they were released on, were it not for the fact that I was in college and had next to no money.

You tend to be a lot more conservative with money when you’ve just started to earn it. I decided I’d wait and see if the DS was really worth it. What I was hoping for was that, like the GBA before it, the DS would grow into a great RPG system. And so, over the next year, a couple of IRC friends and I watched the DS’s growth, debating every other week what the chances were of it actually picking up where its predecessor left off. We wondered if there would ever be a sequel to Final Fantasy Tactics Advance and what the chances were of seeing another Super Robot Taisen: OG.

Fast forward to 2009: Final Fantasy Tactics A2 sucked and I didn’t really like Pokémon Diamond. Oh, and we have to see a true SRT: OG game. Regardless, I own a DS and it’s easily my favourite current-gen system. There’s an extremely diverse range of genres on the DS, and it has more to offer in the way of RPGs than even the GBA did.

The problem is, while the DS offers enough role-playing games to satisfy just about anyone, most of them have one glaring flaw in common: they suck from a story perspective. I can count the DS RPGs that really impressed me with their story on one hand. Soma Bringer had some nice characters and Echoes of Time had a pretty passable story. However, those are both ARPGs, which means you have the constant action to fall back on even when you tire of their narrative.

Turn-based RPGs are a whole different story. The only one that comes to mind is Devil Survivor. Sure, people will argue that Chrono Trigger, Disgaea and Final Fantasy IV address my concerns, but those are all ports of older games. Much older in the case of Chrono Trigger and FFIV.

I’d really like to know what’s going on here.

Did people just…forget how to write good RPG stories after the PS2 era? This is a complaint one could aim not only at DS RPGs but this generation’s role-playing games in general. Here’s the thing though: I’m sure a lot of us are willing to excuse bad plots in high-def games. Current gen game development is tough and often expensive. You’ve either got to worry about new control schemes or about finding the most efficient way to churn out normal maps and get your fancy dynamic lighting system working correctly. It’s cool guys, we understand, really.

However, this is not excusable when you’re developing for a system that is roughly around the PS1 benchmark. Not only is it cheaper and (technologically) easier than console development, it’s also a heck of a lot faster and leaves you with enough time in your production schedule to work on a somewhat satisfactory story. So what exactly is the problem?

Is it laziness? Is it some sort of misconception that the portable nature of these games makes up for the lack of a coherent plot with interesting, relatable characters? It’s certainly not due to a lack of good writers. I’ve been very pleased with nearly every visual novel-esque or adventure game I’ve played on the DS.

Here you have a system that’s bound neither by the restrictions of graphical expectations nor the lack of unique hardware. And it’s been out for five years! Why is no one experimenting?

I’d like to remain optimistic and say we need to look to the future. That the return of great stories that will truly impress us is right around the corner. But honestly, aside from Ni no Kuni and Infinite Space, I can’t think of much to look forward to in this regard. Am I the only one?

TAGS: Atlus, Level 5, Nintendo DS, Square Enix

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ZefiroTorna

Seems like too much is being expected for RPGs on a platform built for on-the-go sessions, where hefty plotting can come off as obtrusive and unwanted. If any factor deserves blame for not providing plots which live up to the PS2 era you prefer, it should be most of the designers working on current generation console RPGs who are more focused on releasing tech demo sorts of games (few exceptions aside). To be fair, I'm sure more games with plots to your liking will come along as this console generation continues.

Come to think about it, those games that may come along could be overall rewarding if they meld a deep story with the strong approach to the game design that DS RPGs typically center on. After all, one period serves as influence onto the next...

I feel that a number of RPGs on the DS brought back focus to the gameplay spirit of the genre: emphasizing less on a bulky narrative and a flair for tech comeuppance, to more of an approach intent on stealing back the dormant adventurous personality in all of us that was rendered comatose by a number of things which may surround us.

There's adventure in forgetting about the current situation at hand and heading off to that alluring location that's relatively visible yet a somewhat out of the way, something one wouldn't dare to do in reality (abandoning an important task). There's adventure in coming to a three-way fork in a cavern, taking the least obvious path only to find nothing but scenery (yet still worth it), then taking the lesser uncommon path to be rewarded with treasure. There's adventure in purposefully engaging into combat, with the game's signature murder anthem firing up, as a cluster of enemies reveal themselves: some familiar and some unseen (like discovering a new species).

That adventurous spirit further lies in acts such as tweaking one's party, pairing up that cursed weapon with that legendary mail in hopes that it pays off. Then there's still pushing to one's limits in a battlefield where the enemy greatly outnumbers your allies, when chess-like and gambling intuition come to an advantage. Finally it all comes down to looking at the rules the genre presents to us, and imagining how things can be fully taken advantage of and perhaps even... broken. It's not just about the romanticism in being adventurous, it's also about how much focus is being put back into encouraging the player to adopt a daring sort of personality which comes along with adventurism.

(Don't worry, I'll stop using "adventure" and all its variances from hereon.)

Truth be told, I've been hella burned out on plot heavy RPGs. Maybe I've just experienced every story archetype there is (the "been there done that" attitude got to me), therefore a more minimalist approach is usually what I find to be enough needed. If I told 15 year old me that I now look forward to getting those stats up as opposed to finding out what happens next, he'd think I'd lost it.

Well, perhaps it's not all me, but somewhat to be blamed on "they." It seems to me like "they" have not been releasing RPGs, but rather "story games" and "character games" on consoles for quite some time now...

Ishaan

First off, awesome post. :)

I agree, developers really need to sit down and think of how to approach narrative in portable games. They've all been so busy trying to compete with their Western brethren in trying to push hardware, it seems a lot of them have forgotten why we love games from Japan in the first place.

As a lot of people in the comments have already pointed out, yes, the DS has taken us back to the days when gameplay was king and everything -- story included -- served as fluff rather than a driving force for the player. Etrian Odyssey and Dark Spire are great examples of this. While I'm personally not a fan of super hard games like those, I can see why people appreciate them and I understand the importance of preserving a genre.

But I'll have to disagree on the topic of adventure. For me, narrative is the primary driving force in RPGs. I need to know that I'm working toward something and maxing out my stats or equips doesn't cut it (unless we're talking Diablo 2). I need good character development or interaction, even if it's without the greatest plot in the world, in order to remain interested in RPGs. I like knowing what I'm fighting for, who my friends are, what their motives are. I WANT to role-play and to lose myself in the world, even if only for a few short hours. Both Persona 3 and 4 really, really impressed me in that regard.

Now, I'm all for sense of adventure and going off in pursuit of the unknown. Hell, I loved chasing after Ruby and Emerald Weapons in FFVII and I had an absolute blast trying to track down the legendaries in Pokémon Crystal. But again, I want some context when I do these things. I need them to be given a place within the world I'm part of and their relevance at least touched upon in some way.

I totally get where you're coming from when you say you're burnt out on plot-heavy RPGs. Aoshi said above that we're all getting jaded as we grow older and play more games but I think it's also that developers have failed to realize that they need to stop relying on what made for effective storytelling a decade ago if they want to keep our interest. Atlus are one developer that I'd say fully understand this understand this concept. I think -- for all the haters he might have -- Tetsuya Nomura understands this as well, and I'm really looking forward to Versus XIII for this reason.

Something I'm very interested in seeing developers do is treat plot advancements like chapters in portable games. Or like episodes of an anime, if you'd prefer. Give me enough incentive to play for the next, say, one or two hours, instead of dangling the carrot at the end of a 40-hour grindfest. Give each chapter a beginning and an end but make sure it ties into the overall narrative in some way. It doesn't matter if shorter chapters aren't even about the overarching plot. Make them about the characters. Use something similar to social links if you need to.

Devil Survivor is absolutely great at this. I find myself with reduced patience for SRPGs these days but I love watching the plot twists in Devil Survivor after every single major battle. They give you enough incentive and they do it often. That's what I'd like to see more of.

Joanna_T

I kind of agree, but only with regards to traditional RPGs. There are lots of SRPGs, ARPGs, and hybrids on the DS with at least decent stories. I can't seem to think of many examples of new RPGs on the DS with a good story. The only one I can seem to think of is Sands of Destruction, but that's not even out yet, so maybe the story won't live up to expectations.

Both Etrian Odysseys, Pokemon Diamond and DQ Monsters: Joker were not impressive in the story department, yet I still found each one genuinely entertaining for gameplay reasons. I think DS RPGs are focusing on gameplay rather than story, which is fine for me personally. But it would be nice for some experimentation and at least an epic story here or there for variety. A lot of commenters have pointed out Suikoden Tierkreis as a story developed RPG, but I haven't played it yet, so I can't include it in my list.^^;; (still even if I did that would take the total up to two, which is still pretty low).

Ishaan

I agree, ARPGs on DS are a lot better in that regard. I've thoroughly enjoyed Soma Bringer and both FFCC games. But it makes me wonder, are we simply giving those games a free pass because you tend to pay less attention to the story in an ARPG as long as the combat and surrounding elements are fun?

But you're right. Soma Bringer, TWEWY, FFCC. They're all interesting plot or character-wise in their own way.

weathervane

As much of a rabid DS fanboy as I am, the issue of the narrative flimsiness of the average DS RPG has definitely come across my mind from time to time. As many DS RPGs as I’ve played and enjoyed, I can’t say any of them (with the possible exception of Devil Survivor) has had anything resembling an intriguing or unique plot.

Instead, the DS RPGs that have made the strongest impression on me are those that have abandoned any pretense of attempting to create a good plot and have, rather, concentrated their creative efforts elsewhere. To use an example, Etrian Odyssey had virtually zero plot, but rather began with a simple premise that helped to tie all of the aspects of the game into a satisfying, cohesive whole. What you knew about yourself and your party members was nothing more than the fact that you were members of a guild whose job it was to descend into a labyrinth and kill monsters, but with the maze-like level structure, necessity of accurate mapmaking, amazing atmosphere/sense of isolation, constant threat of FOEs, etc; nothing you ever did in the game felt irrelevant to your purpose in the game or to the game’s setting. For all the lack of political intrigue, magical wars spanning multiple continents, struggles to stop insane power-drunken nihilists from unleashing darkness upon the world, etc, simply living and breathing the labyrinth felt so much better.

Although it was a remake, I also have to mention Dragon Quest IV. Its plot was extremely cookie-cutter, but it never showed any signs of feebly or awkwardly attempting to rise above the standard save the world formula. Instead of focusing on the process of saving the world/defeating the big bad as so many RPGs do, much of the game instead tries to depict the world that you’re fighting to save, presenting the player throughout the course of the game with countless endearing NPCs just trying to live harmless domestic lives in tiny hamlets carved out against the harsh wilderness. The extra measure of charm and humanity in their dialogue was really what put DQIV head and shoulders above so many other similar games--as the game goes on and you traverse the world through the eyes of different heroes, you get a feel for just how many innocent people are threatened, and (at least for me) it became more than enough motivation to see the entire game through to the end because you actually care about their lives. It’s a shame that so many games seem to forget that the main plot is not the only place where good writing can be applied to great effect.

Well, I’ve said too much. I suck at condensing my thoughts, so as a courtesy I’ll provide a TL;DR: The best DS RPGs tend to put their creative emphasis in places other than plot.

geoffuws

Preaching to the choir. It wouldn't be a problem if the DS was just another console but with so many RPG developers not wanting to develop for household consoles right now, the DS has become the main source of RPGS.
With the exception of TWENY I haven't played an RPG whose characters I remember since Persona 4.

QBasic

That is so, sooo sad but ultimately true... T_T I feel your pain, brudda.

I honestly feel that the genre's biggest weakness isn't getting overly ambitious with storylines, or missing the mark; it's making the characters interesting.

When you have characters from the early 90s (FFVI) that trump 98% of today's RPG characters in every aspect, you know you have a problem...

NickyD

Ishaan, are you sure you aren't listening in on my conversations with friends? We're on exactly the same wavelength and I've been discussing this very point a lot lately. I'd go so far as to say besides a couple of exceptions, RPG stories (J in particular, but W isn't as ground-breaking as some people will puff about) have always been relatively blah and formulaic. We tend to blow up our expectations because of one or two truly amazing experiences, but really, they're all sort of mediocre.

Visual novels really get to focus on the story; it's all they have to suck a player in. And they do just that - there's no milking a franchise or adding some weird new twist to an existing combat engine. It's about the story. It HAS to be good. No RPG has kept my attention lately like Hotel Dusk did when I bought it.

Ishaan

Yup, exactly. I think the reason the new Persona games are so satisfying is because they take a lot of their cues from visual novels. The character development, the pacing, the dialogue. Character development is the whole point of P3 and P4, whereas in most other JRPGs, I feel like the characters exist just to push the story along and you don't invest in them much emotionally. Totally agree.

QBasic

P3 didn't satisfy me. ;_; It made me think "is it possible to cut out pieces of cardboard...and have them be my friends!?!?!"

P4, however, made me rethink "Hell no! I wanna meet real people! And date five girls at once without having my social lin-I mean relationships go downhill!"

Last one... Yeah. Didn't work out too savvy.

Aoshi00

Personally I've never been a big portable guy, why would I want to squint at the original B&W Gameboy (exception was Megaman) when I could play the NES. The most I've played on my GBA was Mario Kart, but that's about it. I have to say DS is the first portable system that I have spent quite a significant amount of time on (and PSP), since graphics have finally caught on and there's so much variety on it. Still, for a long RPG, I prefer console to portable.

Story-wise, I think gamers just got older and jaded. People always complain why music, movies, or games aren't made like they used to be anymore, yeah, there was good stuff back then and there is good stuff now. We're just not that impressionable anymore. Also, I never really singled out a game for its story, what it lacks in story might make up in other areas, not every game is a perfect game like Chrono Trigger made by the dream team. I thought Lost Odyssey has a pretty decent story and some truly moving novellas. Or it could be that the gaming audience has changed, people might define "fun" different nowadays instead of wanting to be immersed in a heavy story, especially portables, so developers concentrate on different areas.

I know this is about portable RPG, but at least FF13 finally seems to have a good story again (last good one was X of course).

dragonmasterx

Black Sigil
Dragon Quest V
Glory of Heracles(not out in US yet, but read reviews of it in Japanese and you'll see all the fans praise the story)
Kingdom Hearts 358/2 Days(the final scenes)
Luminous Arc 2
Rune Factory 2
Shin Megami Tensei: Devil Survivor
Soma Bringer
Suikoden Tierkreis
Super Robot Taisen W
Tales of Hearts
The World End With You
Valkyrie Profile: Covenant of the Plume
Xenosaga 1+2

7th Dragon's characters have no backplot as you make your own characters, but I found the NPC dialogue to be wonderfully well-written and hilarious.
---
You just have to look in the right places. :P

QBasic

I wouldn't say KH Days is "looking in the right place."

While the game itself is damn fun for KH gaming on the go, it's storyline is almost criminal in sucktitude. The final scenes, while they play a good homage to the secret vid Deep Dive, ultimately emphasize that crap factor, and that the game's storyline is a cop-out and shoe-in; being practically crowbarred into the canon.

Tako Tacos

I honestly haven't noticed any kind of problem with the plot of DS RPGs at all. The DS has an incredible range of RPGs available for it, some with classic, more simple plots like the DQ and FF remakes, and some with new, fresh stories like TWEWY and Devil Survivor. Both kinds of plots have an equal place in the RPG world, to me anyway.

Plot is one thing that's almost completely subjective in games, but I really have a hard time understanding how someone could look at the huge variety of RPGs that have come out for the DS and be disappointed overall. I also think the DS has surpassed the GBA in terms of... well, everything, including RPG plots.

I also think there is a difference between console game plots and handheld game plots, in terms of cinematic capability and the tendency to keep things easily digestible on a portable game. I don't think this makes handheld RPGs weaker in plot in any way, but it is a different approach which should be taken into consideration.

kylehyde

Well I think that I saw your point in certain way, but I think theres has been enough rpg's and srpg's with good plots in the DS: The world ends with you (maybe the best DS game so far), devil survivor, Suikoden Tierkries (even if this doesn't some elements of the suikoden series many people have to admit tha it have a really great plot), knights in the nightmare, Final Fantasy 12 Revenant Wings, and some more. I know you wanted to see more rpg's and srpg's games with great plots, many of us wanted to see it happen not only the DS but in the other consoles too, but I think that DS has recieved a good amount of good plots, and it will recive more on those genres (Ni no Kuni, Golden Sun DS and the america releases of sands of destruction, Infinite Space, Dragon quest IX ).

Ishaan

I've heard Tierkreis has a good story, yea. Problem is, the protag annoyed me so much at the start of the game I couldn't bear to keep playing after around an hour or so. That's just me though.

kylehyde

I think that I know how you feel. If you refer that the protagonist is annoying for his "peculiar" way of talk, I'm 100% agree, is really annoying, but fortunately the voice actor improved a little later in the game, but is a shame that the protagonist's voice acting is maybe the worst in the game, because the other characters has from decent to good voice acting. But actually I have a two little complaints with this game, and is that it has a simple gameplay and frecuent but easy random battles, I love random battles, but not so frecuently and I love challenge. BTW, nice article, even that I think that we already have good plots, you are right about that the DS still needs the RPG game(s) that give us an amazing story.

BK0000

I really looking forward to the Xenosaga I&II romhack, if it's ever finished. I played the game in Japanese. I couldn't understand it, but I've played the PS2 games, so I had a grasp of what was happening. They made some great changes in it that really help the story.

cocytusx

If you play a JRPG for the plot, you're doing it wrong. The story will almost always suck. You play the games for the gameplay and because they're just fun. If you want good characters and stories, go read a book or watch a movie cuz strangely enough, games cannot deliver in that area 90% of the time.

conchobhar

Story is debatable, but JRPGs are fairly good at creating amusing and likable characters. If you're playing a JRPG for gameplay, I'm sorry, but YOU'RE doing it wrong.

Hraesvelgr

Actually, I do have to agree with this man (woman?), gameplay in a lot of JRPGs is usually weak. For a majority of them, you play them for the incredibly generic (and sometimes straight up stupid, a la Star Ocean 3) plots and characters that just coincidentally fit into most anime cliches.

By the way, I'm being absolutely serious here, not a joke.

jj984jj

I must be doing something wrong then.

Volcynika

I just have to say "what."

ethelred

I play RPGs primarily for gameplay. Please, educate me on how I'm "doing it wrong."

Ereek

I enjoyed the story in Suikoden Tierkreis, Avalon Code, and Black Sigil. The latter had especially charming characters. And not really a RPG, but Lock's Quest has a surprisingly good plot for the Tower Defense genre.

Like pretty much everything in the DS, you have to wade through the layers of muck to find the gold.

Hraesvelgr

"Did people just…forget how to write good RPG stories after the PS2 era?"

A few exceptions aside, I would say they forgot how to write good stories for CRPGs well before the PS2. I mean, come on, Final Fantasy X. That game has some of the worst.... everything. Characters, storyline (especially those plot twists), world design... just really bad.

Sami Elo

Final Fantasy 12 Revenant Wings had a fantastic plot. It managed to capture the feel of classic Final Fantasy games and at the same time offer a new angle into it. Easily much better in the story department than its predecessor, FF12 itself!

EmmyG

... Revenant Wings had a fantastic plot? Revenant Wings *bored me to tears*. It's entirely possible the plot picks up later, I was only about four hours in when I just couldn't be bothered to continue. But with the exception of wondering what had become of Balthier, everything seemed painfully generic fantasy-world-in-peril, magic-crystals-of-blah, being a "real" sky pirate, even a couple of new characters for the party with so little personality that I can't remember their names.

To me, *Partners in Time* had a better plot than that. That plot was dumb but at least it was entertaining to read!

Ishaan

I felt that way about FFIV. I was surprised by how many twists and turns it put you through. Great music, too. IV the reason I'm looking forward to that remake of VI so much.

QBasic

Remake...!? Mind filling me in? :o

Ishaan

I mean the inevitable DS remake of Square's second most popular SNES game. They haven't even confirmed FFVDS yet officially though. ><

QBasic

=___= Hurm. So...wishful thinking on your part, more or less. But a DS? I dunno. Don't you think FFVI is a little...too big in scale for it? I mean, look at FFIV DS; they had to cut out *quite* a few things from the original game to fit it onto a DS cart with 3D graphics and the whole shebang. And I seem to reckon FFVI being a really, really, really hugish game. I don't see a DS version happening unless they do something like... "Final Fantasy VI: Episode 1 - Order" and "Final Fantasy VI: Episode 2 - Chaos!"

SE is SE...but I doubt they'd pull something like that. There would be mass riots. People; dozens would *die*.

Also...fix your internet already. =_= Some freaky dude buggered me a few days ago. Honestly thought it could've been you. ;_;

QBasic

Oh god... I can't name everything off of top of my head, since I didn't play either version of IV in a while...but I know for certain the overworld was considerably scaled down. The GBA version got an additional dungeon, and several other small areas opened up in the world map. That was absent in the DS version.

A few story elements were also removed, but I can't recall which ones; then again, if I can't remember, shows how memorable they were. :P

But even so, yeah, VI is simply too big to be 3Dfied and slapped onto a DS cart; they'll definitely need to move to something else.

I'm thinking even a PSP port wouldn't be easy and fun to make. The idea thing is to move it to a current-gen console...but, like that'll happen. :P

Joanna_T

they cut stuff out of FFIV DS? like what? maybe I haven't played enough or I don't recall very well, but I don't remember anything being cut out. Actually the put stuff into it (like Whyt, Augments, those mini games to boost Whyt's stats, ect.)

So I don't see what the problem would be. FFV is pretty big as well, with 3 distinct worlds, but I still think they can fit it into a DS cart if they wanted, there are bigger sizes, like 2G. So I don't see a problem. Maybe you just want FFVI remake on a different system and are projecting this desire into arguments about FFVI DS not being possible, when it is (theoretically of course, no confirmation from Square yet).

Guy Wesley

never mind, I think it was a great plot.

Guy Wesley

I take it that "The World Ends with You" plot was not good as well?

QBasic

That was one of the best games I've played in way too long a time, in all honesty.

Best effort Square has put into a game since Chrono Trigger, in every aspect.

NickyD

I also agree. While it took me a few tries to get sucked in (it came at a time where I was overwhelmed with both work and other games to play), I have no complaints about it. Tons of stuff to do even after you beat the "main" storyline. Excellent all around and deserving of all the praise it receives.

Jenni

I totally agree that The World Ends with You is amazing and awesome. If I hadn't already owned a DS, I would have bought one just to play that. I was just about to import the Japanese version when SE announced the localization.

That and Devil Survivor always stay with my DS. I know as long as I have those two games, I'll have plenty to keep me occupied.

malek86

I agree that many of the DS's games haven't exactly been stellar in term of story, but here is a question: do any of the other current-gen systems out there have much better stories? I don't think so. I say the problem is widepsread, not just limited to the DS.

Luckily, I'm not one to care too much about the story in a game.

Serge73

The DS is probably my favorite of the systems currently too.

The stories mostly haven't been "epic", but there's been plenty of good or passable ones. Although, I tend to blend SRPGs and RPGs together...

The story of "The World Ends With You" I thought was pretty great. So is Suikoden DS so far, and Avalon Code. (The main plot isn't the greatest in AC, but there's so much additional side-stuff to flesh out the story that I enjoyed.)

Valkyrie Profile DS
Hoshigami DS
FFX12 Revenant Wings
Knights In The Nightmare

So yeah, I've been pretty happy with their stories so far.

As far as upcoming ones, beyond the ones listed, the main other one is Sands of Destruction. I'm looking forward to that, with the involvement of old Chrono/Xeno people...

Jenni

I totally agree with Serge. While the stories may not be incredibly epic, I find I enjoy the DS RPG stories more often than not.

Some of the ports have some great stories though. The Dragon Quest ones are a great example.

Edit: Contact is really a nifty little RPG as well.

ethelred

"Final Fantasy Tactics A2 sucked"

That's certainly not true. It's a far better game than its predecessor in just about every respect.

Setting that aside... As far as RPGs go, the GBA had a handful of nice gems, but it really wasn't all that impressive. In terms of high quality original RPG content, it had the Golden Sun games (the first of which was good; the second of which was genuinely great), Mario & Luigi, the Fire Emblems, Mother 3, Riviera, Yggdra Union, and... that's it.

Regardless of whether storyline is being considered the primary and decisive factor in determining an RPG's quality, I'd still take a lineup consisting of Dragon Quest 9, Shin Megami Tensei 4, 4 Warriors of Light, 7th Dragon, Infinite Space, Ninokuni, Devil Survivor, The World Ends With You, the Etrian Odyssey games, Knights in the Nightmare, Sands of Destruction, Tierkreis, Valkyrie Profile Tactics, and Shining Force Feather over that. Not to mention a score of other games, and not to mention the remakes (which is especially relevant, as in the case of DQ5 and 6, for games that never received localizations to begin with), and not to mention the sequels to GBA games (Mario & Luigi 3 and Golden Sun 3).

I can understand if the criticism is that the DS's lineup of RPGs doesn't offer the narrative excellence that the PS2's library did. But the GBA? Really? I kinda fail to see how it measures up even in the most theoretical sense.

"I think this applies to the DS as a whole. It just doesn't live up to the GBA."

Yeeeaaaah, no.

Ishaan

Where'd you get the "It doesn't live up to the GBA" quote? I never said that. Just the opposite in fact. :P

Edit: Oh, nevermind. Comment below mine. XD

conchobhar

"Yeeeaaaah, no."

ok!

Serge73

Agreed!

And yeah, the story of FFTA2 wasn't so hot, but I loved the game itself...

Joanna_T

yeah same here. FFTA2 was a great game, just it lacked a story. That is the only aspect in which FFTA out does FFTA2. (And even FFTA's story wasn't that hot).

conchobhar

Honestly, the best place to look for good stories is the DS' decent library of adventure games. Especially Hotel Dusk, but Trace Memory/Another Code, the Ace Attorney series and Prof Layton aren't bad either.

On a slightly different note, though, I think this applies to the DS as a whole. It just doesn't live up to the GBA.

shirokiryuu

I second the games you mentioned. Although there seem to be a lot of cool looking visual novel-esque games that haven't/probably won't be localized. I also second TWEWY as mentioned several time.

Also are the stories in the DS Tales of series any good? Because... I'll never know since it doesn't seem like they'll ever be released =/

While I do like ports, since I haven't been able to play the originals, it seems like this generation of handheld is kinda saturated with them...

ethelred

Compared to the GBA? Which had Mario All Stars broken down into two separately ported games alongside ports of Mario World and Yoshi's Island? The entire NES Classics line (including Mario, the Zeldas, Castlevania, and so on)? The port of Link to the Past? Ports of five different Final Fantasy games and three Phantasy Star games and two Breath of Fire games and Shining Force and the SNES Tales? ... and on and on we could go.

I liked the GBA, but it had more than an overabundance of ports making up its library. I would say by contrast that the DS is more than sufficiently defined by the breadth and depth of its original software.

"2) having an excellent library of original titles as well."

Very few, and not nearly as many as on its successor.

conchobhar

Personally, I don't think the DS' "original software" is all that great... a lot of it leaves me feeling a tad disappointed, especially since most franchises had better entries on the GBA (eg: Castlevania).

Contra 4 is still absolutely amazing, however!

conchobhar

Tales is not certainly NOT a series you want to play for story; even the best games in the series still have mediocre stories. I imagine the DS titles aren't any better in that regard.

Also, I would say that the GBA had a hell of a lot more ports than the DS does, but the GBA balanced it by 1) being ports of great games in the first place and 2) having an excellent library of original titles as well.

shirokiryuu

Oddly I got late into the GBA era too, I sorta skipped from GBC to DS (there was a period of time I wasn't interested in games). Thanks for all the information however!

To be honest, the only non-pokemon GBA game I've played is Mother 3. I liked the story in that one as well.