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Facebook Files: Subs Or Dubs?

By Ishaan . November 8, 2009 . 7:36am

Welcome to another Facebook Files. I’m going to stop keeping count now. Here’s a rundown of how things work: Every week, we look through our Facebook group for the best community discussions. The ones that stand out are published on Siliconera as part of this feature every weekend. If your topic isn’t chosen one week, don’t lose heart…it might get picked up the next!

Uy started up a discussion on whether people prefer to play games in Japanese with subtitles or with dubbed voice-acting. Since this is a common argument around here and people brought up some good points, I figured it would make for good discussion this week.

Uy wrote:

It’s nice that some Japanese games localized in English have the option of turning the Japanese/English voice on, like the Disgaea series, and most NIS games. However, there’s also many localized games presented in English dubbed only such as Persona 3/4, and most Square-Enix games. So do you prefer to play your game subbed or dubbed?

For me, I mostly prefer to play the game in its original Japanese language track with English subtitle. It’s so I can enjoy the game in its fullest form, without missing on some of the message or cultural references that wouldn’t come across and (most of the time) got replaced when translated to another language. This especially true when playing the Persona series where the setting take place in Japan.

However, I also appreciated dubbed when it’s done well, such as Disgaea or Persona 3/4. But I hope that in the future, more companies would gave us the Japanese language with English subbed as an options instead of rely solely on dub.

Milan and Gabe brought up a great point, which is that we wouldn’t have to wait as long for a game with subs only.

Milan wrote:

Games would come out faster if they left out the dubs, sure sometimes the make them good, but you cant simulate the japanese language, moe dosent exist in the english language and should never be "attempted".

English dubs are usually 100% crappy. Well most language that try to imitate japanese turn out crappy. Western Voice actors just do not know how to replicate the feelings, maybe they lack the practice, maybe the language lacks something I dont know.

Gabe wrote:

It really depends for myself. I’m usually not too picky about bad dubbing but sometimes I’d rather hear the original voice cast and read subs.

Also, I think it’d be nice if the games that would require subs would have it done and then released before they produce the dubbed game. It could be released much sooner and would require some kids to actually read something. I know it would never happen but I can hope.

Enjoying not just good, but even bad dubs is also a guilty pleasure for some of us, so I pitched in with my two cents this time as well.

Ishaan:

This is purely on a case-by-case basis for me. If it’s an Atlus game, I’ll take the dub any day. Good English dubbing in games still feels very novel to me and I love listening to a good English track. NISA are pretty good about this, too. Oh, and for some odd reason, I love the horrendous English dubbing in the first Tenchu game. So awesome. ♥

If it’s something like, say, Fragile or Sky Crawlers…I would really prefer to play them in their original language. The same goes for games based off of anime. On that note though, Jeanne d’Arc sounds very, very unique. I wish more companies would dabble in those kinds of experiments with voice-acting.

Stephen wrote:

First time playing through, I think I’d prefer the dub. As long as the English voices aren’t awful, I think it would be much more enjoyable to experience the game without having to read all the subtitles, focusing more on what’s actually happening on screen rather than reading. Sometimes it takes time to get used to the English voices, but most of the time they grow on you and you get used to it.

For a second playthrough I’d play it subbed. A lot of Japanese voice acting appears to have more emotion than English dubs, so by experiencing both versions you get to choose which you prefer. But yeah, first time through I think I’d prefer dub.

Samuel wrote:

If it can be I’ll play a game with a dub.

By "if it can be" I mean if the dub is good enough! Because, I find I can more easily connect to the characters in English, although sometimes the setting calls for Japanese, but even then English is fine. A good example (that has been used extensively here) is Persona 4. I like it a lot in Persona 4 although it is clearly Japanese because the characters are just easier to get in to, AND it is top notch.

A good example of a game that for me NEEDS to be English would be the Metal Gear Solid games. They’re clearly set in America and have many American influences/nods and references. This is a Kojima thing, pretty well all his games should be English, although Boktai is debatable.

Perhaps now that digital distribution is catching on, we’ll start to see more publishers experiment by allowing fans who can’t wait early access to a sub-only build, while saving the dubbed version for a disc-based retail release.

What’s the verdict on the site — subs or dubs?

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Celedin

I usually just play with whatever is the default option. As long as I get to play the game, I'm happy.

Hraesvelgr

That's a good attitude. (not sarcasm)

Kuza21

I prefer subs, but if it has over-the-top dubbing like Disgaea then I don't mind it at all.

matty

I usually watch dub with the subs on. Is that crazy? Maybe its uncommon, but I feel I get more out of it...

It depends, its' usually whatever gets me in the mood. I'm with Gabe on this! Typically, the original dub comes off as more natural, whatever or whoever does it, for obvious reasons.
Sometimes, the English dub has a little more flare or charm that I can settle into more and maybe even find the characters more interesting if the authenticity of the original acting comes off as a little (for a lack of a MUCH better word) "bleh".

To be fair, I listen to both anyway. That is, if the game/show/film is worth going through a second time. Both are mostly decent these days, I think.

NickyD

This is actually what I do with anime. I usually do it to "test" how different the subtitles are compared to the English dub. If they're wildly different, I'll take whichever sounded better to me.

And for the record, everyone "Japanese subs" is still a "dub." So, technically, unless you play on mute, you're playing with a dubbed track. Only the language is different. It's technical, but hey, it's kinda funny people seem to forget this.

malek86

Nothing for me! I read very quickly, so I can't be bothered to wait for the characters to speak their lines. I prefer my RPGs to be just mute.

Hraesvelgr

Yeah, having played RPGs for 20 years, the voice acting often can't keep up with how fast I read the text. But if the voice acting is good enough, I still like to hear the lines play out.

Doctor_Rabbit

Wow, this is still getting talked about? These discussions will never end, huh? Anyway, I prefer dubs for nearly everything. That's how I was introduced to anime and video games, and that's what always feels right. Even not-so-great dubs, for whatever reason, are fine with me. But something like Chaos Wars... No. There's a difference between OK dubs and terrible ones. As for subs, if it's a game like Yakuza 2, then yes. I liked the Japanese track in that game. It was like a live-action movie, and I won't watch one of those dubbed!

Hraesvelgr

Yeah, the sub vs. dub discussion will never go away and, depending on where you go, it's pretty much prohibited because of the usual flame wars it causes.

Aoshi00

I could go both ways since I understand both Jpn and Eng, sometimes I could get into an RPG more in Jpn but sometimes more in Eng., most likely depends on which I started first (like SO4 and Magna Carta 2 I played in Eng. first, then I go back to the Jpn ver and it doesn't feel as natural). W/ Dragonball anime which I've watched in Jpn for 10 plus yrs prior to being dubbed in the US, so I could never watch it dubbed in Eng.

I've played the whole MGS series in both Jpn/Eng, I agree, since the setting is based on the recent Western history (Cold War, etc), so it's better to be played in Eng, so people would have American accent or Russian accent (even it might not have been done perfectly), instead of plain Jpn which basically had no such international accent, even though both Oozuka Akio and David Hayter both make perfect Snakes, in slightly different ways.

If an Eng. dub is done well like FFXII (w/ British/cockney for the empire and all sorts of accents you could think of), it's more fitting since it's a medieval-like fantasy.

I first played Jeanne d'arc in Jpn, and only played a little of it in Eng, so I wasn't very used to Jeanne's French accent. I remember I used to hate the stupid accents in anime, like the Eng. dubbed Maison Ikkoku where they gave Kyoko a southern hickish accent, it was so out of place. But I appreciate more now when it's done well..

Personally I prefer Jpn dub as I'm much more familiar w/ Jpn voice actors, but I guess it comes down to the context of the game, and how comfortable one feels about reading instead of hearing the actual dialogue.

English dub has improved over the years, we've come a long way since the horrendous Sailormoon dub, so I could see merits in both, and dual audio should be included whenever possible for people to choose.

I always like to hear both to compare (if time permits, since playing thru an RPG twice for dozens of hours is a lot..), I'm special though, I like to hear both languages for everything, I'm playing Numblast in both Jpn and English now, the Jpn dub is better, but I love the British accent (Sempai has turned into a monkey!)

PS. also it depends on lip movement during cutscenes too, Lost Odyssey was a little distracting to play in Jpn since the lip movement was tailor made for English (english dub was supposed to be the original and superior anyway since they used amateur actors in the Jpn dub...) Ninja Gaiden Sigma 2 also was made w/ English in mind, but I just like Hori Hideyuki's Ryu so much I can't listen to it in English.. and Momiji sounds much cuter in Jpn. It all depends. If possible, go w/ the original dub, as not to miss the nuances. But for some people who prefer dub, they think they're missing a lot by reading instead of listening. It would be nice if all games include both so the endless sub vs dub war could die (just like anime DVDs). Some people seems to be intolerant of one or another.

nyoron

I know I'm in the minority on this one, but something like Persona 3/4, where the characters are Japanese kids with Japanese names that go to school in Japan, I would hate to play dubbed. It just sounds so unnatural to me, especially when they dubbed stuff like honorifics and sempai *gag*. If you want it to be so "authentic" that you need to go that far, why not go all the way and include the Japanese voices too? All of that, plus the fact that P3/4 is basically an all-star cast of my favorite Japanese voice actors, means I played the fanmade undub version.

But besides Persona specifically, I prefer that anime characters speak Japanese. Personal preference. That's not to say that dubs are inherently bad. Tales of Vesperia for example had a phenomenal dub and I loved it. Still would have liked the option to choose though.

Beyond anime looking games I don't care so much. I wouldn't ask for a Japanese version of something like Metal Gear Solid or Bayonetta (yes I know there is no Japanese audio for Bayonetta). Or something like Kingdom Hearts (though Disney characters speaking Japanese would probably be hilarious).

But in general I want the Japanese voices to be available. I'm not one of those people that claims the Japanese actors are much more emotional and that all dubs suck, it's just a personal preference. And these days, both with BD disc space and the possibility of additional language tracks as downloadable content, there's really no excuse for not offering it. Hell, if the poor localizers can't afford it then make it paid DLC to offset the extra cost of licensing it.

Aoshi00

Agreed w/ everything you said. Though personally I also want Bayonetta to be dubbed in Jpn in addition to Eng. I imported the Jpn Resident Evil Degeneration Blu-ray just to have dual audio, even though the US version is much cheaper. I know it's not that great of a movie, and RE has always had Eng. dub as default, but I was curious and wanted the "complete" version.

For games that have anime characters, I almost always prefer Jpn dub too, like you said it's funny to hear the suffix -san, -sempai actualy said out loud in Eng. Definitely no excuse to not include the original audio if disc capacity allows, paying for extra DLC sure as heck beats getting a Jpn system and buying the game more than once... I have P3/Fes/4 in both Jpn/Eng (6 games there :(, think I'm one of the few who's that crazy.

Joanna_T

Depends. I usually go for sub, but there are instances where I have liked both, or even the dub more.
Like others mentioned, FFXII had a good english dub, Layton as well. I cannot imagine playing it in Japanese without the awesome English accents. Finally, I hated the Japanese sub of Rhapsody; Atlus's dub was much better and sounded more professional. So most of the time I go for the sub, but there are times when I like the dub just as much or more.

Yeah I agree anime dubbing has gotten much better in recent years, but I still hate when they give a character an annoying accent even if the character is suppose to have it. By far the worst example of this is Satella from Chrono Crusade; the dub gave her a horrendous german accent, I could not bear to hear it that is how bad it was. Also I find it funny that someone mentioned Sailor Moon because I actually think the dub isn't half bad. Usagi has a far more annoying Japanese voice than her English counterpart and I actually prefer her English voice (both pre SMR and post SMR). And Chibiusa got a better voice after Sailor Moon R.

denpanosekai

Subs. Dubs piss me off.

kazalt

Unless the dubbing is Resident Evil one on the PSX bad, I'll go with dub.

Slashlen

Put me in the sub crowd. It just seems more natural to have things in their original language to me. I like having both options, though.

maxchain

Honestly, it's not the 90s. You have to go out of your way these days to find a genuinely horrible dub for a game that doesn't have "Sonic" in the title. There're exceptions here and there--I'd be mildly disappointed if Super Robot Taisen OG Saga Endless Frontier was voiced by Steven Anydub in place of Nobuyuki "Link" Hiyama (the flipside being that I'd know what anybody says at all during battle)--but for the most part, I have faith in the Atluses and the Square Enixes and what-have-you to deliver a dub that doesn't yank me out of the experience and distract me with a scarring Amateur Hour performance.

Heck, even on the other end of the scale, once you pass the 4Kids zone, it's not like you'll never find yourself in the middle of So Bad It's Good. I'm not ashamed to admit that part of why I love Castle Shikigami 2 is that it didn't take itself seriously (regardless of whether that was the infamous XS Games' intent).

Doctor_Rabbit

Castle Shikigami 2... That was a hideously terrible dub that ended up being hilarious. I love that dub because it's so bad. "I like girls, but now it's about justice!"

Hraesvelgr

Problem is, even if you say things like "it's not the 90s, you have to go out of your way to find bad dubs", people will still throw out some link to a Chaos Wars video on youtube. And rightfully so, it is some of the worst voice acting I've ever heard, but that is just an exception rather than the rule.

maxchain

Even so, I'd say Chaos Wars falls under "out of your way," considering how hard it is to namedrop anything O3 Entertainment published that doesn't rhyme with Zalien Zominid.

moriken

When you consider a "bad dub" something like Persona 3, you'll find many bad dubs. Ok, bad is a bit harsh, "inferior" would be the better word. And I'm looking at it from the outside, english and japanese are both foreign languages to me and I'm more or less proficient at both.

But overall, I can perfectly understand it if people prefer audio in a language they can understand; reading subs is also something you have to get used to. Especially in the beginning, you tend to miss what else happens on the screen (this esp. goes for movies). But as others already said, I seriously hope the sub/dub-discussion is being solved with the storage problem being not an issue any longer.

facebook-685251645

It really depends. I mean Muramasa: The Demon Blade didn't bother me at all. It had the Japanese voice acting which made sense. The game was set in Japan so why have another voice.

Now with most anime I watch the dubs anyway. I can tell that when a character should be yelling they are just raising their voice most of the time in a dub. Wish VA was taken more seriously!

I can't wait to play Fragile!

Pichi

Dub for me, as I like to fully understand what's going on.

Pichi

But do go for sub on 2nd playthroughs and such when in the mood.

abasm

I have IMMENSE respect for those who work in localization--I've done some similar work myself, and it's tough. It requires a lot of effort and creativity to translate exclusive ideas and concepts from one culture to fit another, and even more to provide competent voice acting.

So, I feel bad if I don't view a work as the localization team intended: dubbed and translated.

Despite this, however, not all localizations are given adequate care and attention. In such cases, I prefer to retain the original voice acting.

Ereek

English dubs are usually 100% crappy.

I completely disagree with this statement. It's not 1995 anymore. More and more English dubs are better than their sub counterparts. For some illogical reason people don't seem to believe this, though. Part of the reason is simply that many people can't understand Japanese and wouldn't know bad voice acting when it hit them in the face. Voice Acting in games has progressed dramatically in the past 15 years. Everyone throws out arguments like Chaos Wars, which is the exception and not the rule to English dubs.

Of course, this is Siliconera. "Welcome to the unseen side of gaming," as the title states. Generally, subs are going to be more popular in a site that revolves, mostly, around Japanese games.

For me, it doesn't matter. I've been speaking Japanese for over 10 years and I still prefer to have my games in English. Voice acting does not make or break a game for me either way and if a game doesn't have one language or the other, I'll still play it. If the game has only one track and its absolutely horrible and annoying acting -Atelier Annie- I'll simply turn the sound down or the voices off. I don't mind playing games with no voices, as it's something I've done for the last 20 years.

Sean Rohde

Subs all the way. Though I find English dubs much more tolerable on games than in Anime. Maybe because there is a lot less of it.

What I hate is when the scenes are dubbed in English and there are subs in English that can't be turned off.

doubleO7

With games, It doesnt really matter to me what the language is as long as the dialogue in the text boxes is in english, although If it gives me the choice i'll always choose english.

But with anime I only watch dubs. Some big reasons I dont watch subs is because I'd rather hear it in a language I can actually understand, and while your focused on reading text at the bottom of the screen its easy to miss whats happening on the rest of the screen.
But the main reason for me is because the Japanese talk kinda fast so the subtitles go too fast, and I have to rewind often to finish reading. Watching anime should be fun and its something I enjoy, but when I have to rewind or pause at like, every other line of dialogue so I can understand what they're saying, im not having fun, im just annoyed.

Ryan Burton

I like both. Being a voice actor myself, I tend to like dubs most of the time, but I respect the original voice overs as well. It really depends on which version I play first, or the series it self, for me.

CrawdKenny

I prefer raw, for language practice.

Scypher

The game's setting/world factors into it, I think. If the game takes place in Japan or some other East Asian-themed fictional setting, there's often something not quite right about listening to it dubbed. Otherwise, I'll just stick to the dub by default. A majority of fully-voiced Japanese games that get localized (RPGs, mostly) aren't necessarily in an East Asian setting, anyway.

Exceptions: Japan settings where the dub actually adds to the characters (Persona 3/4); "Western" settings where the dub is just awful (take your pick).

urbanscholar

To keep my answer short, I chose a dub due to understand and feeling the intent of what is coming across. A dub or rather a "localization" make things relevant (language wise) to the target audience. With subs, I really feel more as if I'm reading something open to interpretation even with the Japanese audio there. If I admittedly knew the language maybe my opinion would change but for now give me dubs good (nice) bad (laugh riot).

Hraesvelgr

It depends, really. I'm usually fine with either, but I hate when games include both language tracks and then use the radically changed script from the English version as "subs" for the Japanese, aka "dubtitling". After a couple of tries, I realized that I hate pretty much everything NISA releases, so I don't know if they still do it, but the games I played were very much dubtitled.

nyoron

Dubtitles don't really bother me too much. I'm not totally Japanese illiterate (Kanji destroys me though) so whenever I can pick out by ear where the script has been altered I feel like I accomplished something lol.

But I think I read that NISA was planning to have separate scripts for Sakura Wars 5? Or maybe that was just for the names. Anyway I think their 2 disc idea makes everyone happy and I hope it pays off for them.

Aoshi00

I can't stand "dubtitles" either, using just one script, namely the "closed caption" in English, as the subtitle for the Jpn dialogue. Ideally it would be nice if they let us change the text to the original language in the menu or by changing the system's setting, eg. Ninja Gaiden 2 or Sonic & the secret of 7 rings, since I like to read what I'm listening, like Jpn subtitles for Jpn dialog and eng. sub for eng. dialogue (like Muramasa's very loose sub, just leave in the option for Jpn text..), so I guess what I want is "closed caption".

It's not just games, I have the subtitles on even when I watch regular movies. The Jpn DVDs for Hollywood movies also do the same thing, the Jpn subtitle is just the translation of the the English dialogue but they don't have the script for the Jpn dub, so it's a hassle to read the subtitle while they're saying something else on the screen..

Hello_Hello

I can not stand Japanese voice acting. There's something about it that just sounds so fake like nothing close to how real human beings are supposed to sound.

epy

I enjoy playing the games in their original language. Just as I would never play God of War in japanese, I rather play my JRPGs in their original language.

Rol

Original voices all the way. I think the this an important distinction between the sub vs dub battle, as I know some people would accuse me of wanting every game in Japanese. This is course not true, I just want them in the original voices used for the product and since I happen to play a ton of Japanese games, that just tends to be the pattern. It will take a TON of circumstances for me to play a game that is not in it's original language. A good example would be the Persona series: Persona 3 & 4 were so good I did buy the English dub, but I would have enjoyed the original voices more. The Persona 1 PSP remake is a special case...I enjoy the English voices in the cutscenes, since these were added in and not dubbed over. This is akin to Final Fantasy Tactics on the PSP that added voices to the game that were not already there.

Will dubbing lead me to not buying a game? It has in the past: I did not buy Prinny: Can I really be the Hero since NISA decided not to add a dub. THAT game really looked up my alley. I rented X-Blades for the 360 with every intention of buying it on the cheap for PC, but since it does not have the original Russian voices, I passed. That was a case of not a great game giving me more reason not to buy it though. 2 of my fav series of all time: Gabriel Knight & the Legacy of Kain both have English as it's original language and I love them both for their great acting.