Siliconera Sounds Off: The Visual Novel’s Barriers To Entry

By Ishaan . January 17, 2010 . 2:58pm

Siliconera Sounds Off: The Visual Novels Barriers To Entry

This week, we discuss barriers to entry to the visual novel genre such as price and art style with MangaGamer. Price in particular is something a lot of people around here have voiced concerns about, so we decided to get some answers straight from the horse’s mouth.

 

As always, keep in mind that participating publishers usually keep an eye on this column so your feedback in the comments does get read. Just remember to be polite.

 

Participants:
Localization Editor, MangaGamer – Evospace

Siliconera – Ishaan Sahdev

 

Siliconera Sounds Off: The Visual Novels Barriers To Entry Ishaan: What about games with a slightly more…mature…art style? I don’t know if you’ve played Hotel Dusk on the Nintendo DS, but that art style was very appealing and I think it would catch the eye of a wider audience than simply your standard game and anime fans. Do visual novels in a less anime-esque style even exist?

 

Siliconera Sounds Off: The Visual Novels Barriers To Entry EvoSpace: Of course the majority of the visual novels that are sold and popular in Japan are in anime-esque styles, but there are certainly different styles. Last year, there was a mystery novel called Kara no Shojo (NSFW) which was praised for its story.

 

There are many kinds of genres to the story of visual novels as well, from simple school love story, to science fictions, to mystery, to action.

 

Ishaan: Do you think if you were to go with a more mature style, you could possibly attract a wider crowd that might otherwise feel the game was too "childish," judging from the artwork? I don’t know if you would agree, but I feel there’s room to actually market these more as visual "novels" and less as "games" to an audience beyond our niche. Of course, that would require a physical product…

 

EvoSpace: Maybe in the future, someone can make a mature styled visual novel specifically aimed for the western game market, but the Japanese developers are sticking to this anime-ish style because that’s what they like themselves.

 

It kind of defeats the purpose of localizing them if we don’t promote this style in a way so people would develop a liking to them.

 

Ishaan: Something that’s usually a touchy topic with MangaGamer fans is the price of your games. Do you ever feel this is another barrier to entry that needs to be lowered?

 

EvoSpace: The price of games is another difficult topic. I would certainly feel that it needs to be lowered so more people can afford it, especially because we don’t offer a packaged version of our games, but it’s also a dangerous business decision to do so. To put it simply, you can easily go from a higher price to a lower price at some point in time, but not vice-versa.

 

If every single person interested would purchase a game at a certain price point, we would gladly drop it, but it’s not easy to determine that. We also must maintain a certain value to our games as a piece of work.

 

At the moment, 36.95 Euro seems be the ideal price point. There’s a limit to the number of people purchasing, because it is a niche market after all. If we were to lower our price, it would be gradual as we gain more customers.

 

Part 1: Talking Localization And Expansion With MangaGamer

Part 2: Why Some Visual Novels Never Get Localized


Read more stories about & & on Siliconera.

  • bobhoskins

    Not to be disrespectful, but Ishaan…I think you're a little too obsessed with visual novels. 90% of your editorials on here are about VNs, which…admit it, only appeal to 10% of an already niche crowd.

    There ARE other story telling mediums, you know… And rather than this weird stuff, if you want to get people to appreciate VNs, you ought to start with something people are going to be familiar with off the bat, or at least find it sort of recognizable: Fate/stay Night, 428, Tsukihime, Air, etc…

    There's a reason why weed is call a “gateway drug”, after all…

  • anomynouswardco

    Weres mah ignoe battun?

    Jeeze bob! Just skip the VN posts then!!!

  • trez12

    I like Siliconera (and Ishaan's articles) precisely because they are actually interested in addressing niche themes such as this.

    Attacking them because they actually try to speak of vn marketing problems in the West instead of posting the 4773838 th article about Type Moon visual novels (aside from the fact that they *were* covered in the past) is absurd, and if you aren't interested in this “weird stuff” (?) you are by all means free to skip this piece.

  • trez12

    I like Siliconera (and Ishaan's articles) precisely because they are actually interested in addressing niche themes such as this.

    Attacking them because they actually try to speak of vn marketing problems in the West instead of posting the 4773838 th article about Type Moon visual novels (aside from the fact that they *were* covered in the past) is absurd, and if you aren't interested in this “weird stuff” (?) you are by all means free to skip this piece.

  • zhemos

    I'd like to buy some visual novels from MangaGamer.net but I believe it's too expensive for a digital download. 36 euro's is like 60 USD. I want something physical if i'm gonna pay that much. Also every demo I've downloaded from their site such as Da Capo does not work. Which kind of reinforces my decision to stay away from it.

    Take a chance, lower your price, and start talking to Rightstuf.com about distributing some physical media and maybe I'll start taking a chance on your product. Until then I got my eyes on JASTusa and they're up coming Demonbane localization.

  • Xien12

    Ah, Kara no Shoujo. The game where, if you make at least one mistake, you get to see a woman cruelly tortured to death. There's some mutilation, womb removing/replacing, eye popping… em, yeah. Fun stuff. Not for the faint of heart. It's definitely a good read, though. In terms of visual presentation, Kara no Shoujo definitely beats Hotel Dusk hands down.

  • keriaku

    But they're not talking about any particular titles, so I don't see why it needs to be 'recognizable'. This is about the medium and industry in general.

  • http://whatistheexcel.com James A. Calwell III

    Those portable e-book readers are gaining in popularity these days. I wonder if a similar device for visual novels would have any potential.

  • wildarms

    The point is finding out about stuff we dont know, -.-' i already know everything i can of fate stay night, and i liked it, but i dont want eternal posts talking about it like it is with FF7.
    And this is a game's webpage, VN can be considered as games, what do you want him to talk to about? books? How in the old times the people sang stories like the Odessy? i got enough of that in school. We all know there are thousands of other ways to tell stories, but this webpage is not for that.

  • Xien12

    Keitai novels?

  • http://whatistheexcel.com James A. Calwell III

    I'm not sure if phones are big enough to show both text and images at meaningful resolution. Yet.

  • Xien12

    If the Nokia N900 can play Starcraft, I'm sure something can be done to remedy that problem.

  • bobhoskins

    I really don't think that someone who can't spell “Odyssey” correctly should engage in a debate like this.

    Let's put it this way: If a Visual Novel is a “game”, then elevator music is a form of prog-rock.

    Sure they're both music…but one is…lesser than the other. A Visual Novel is effectively “less of a game” than say, I dunno, Kingdom Hearts! Or Ridge Racer.

    The whole “VNs are games!” debate is both right and wrong. But here's the real problem with Visual Novels: 99.9999% of the public *don't care* about them. When they wanna play a game, they want to *play a game.* When they want to *read*, they'll read…The Odyssey. :) That's the mentality of the world. And I gotta say, it ain't far too off…

  • abasm

    I want to see 428 localized, though it'll probably never happen.

  • http://www.siliconera.com Ishaan

    I understand where you're coming from in the “gateway drug” sense, but three of the four games you mentioned have been covered in the past. Also, keep in mind that those games haven't been localized legitimately, so talking about them beyond a point doesn't help anyone.

    Of course there are other forms of storytelling, even within games. We've covered them. Flower, Sun & Rain; Persona; tons of other RPGs. Part of the reason we cover the things we do is because no one else does, and spreading awareness is never a bad thing. It's like saying newspapers shouldn't cover certain things because people aren't interested in them.

    And please think before you say things like, “This isn't Japan.” Sites like ours wouldn't exist at all if we let cultural barriers get in the way, and people would never learn about each other. That's sort of the point of the advancement of communication, isn't it?

  • TheCleaningGuy

    I think the reason that I haven't played (would that be the right word?) any visual novels, is due to the inherent lack of gameplay for the price. If I wanted to read a linear story (even one with pictures) I'd go out and pay $10-20 a book, comic, or manga. I also have a degree of portability with one of those.

    While I immensely enjoy games with VN-esque bits in them (Persona, Disgaea, Sakura Taisen, etc) I find it hard to pay $40+ for a game without the game itself, particularly a download (I've got a thing for physical media :p). I'm even hesitant about buying Disgaea Infinite, despite the fact that I love the series, humor, and characters. It's the incredibly fun gameplay that brings me back. Maybe DI will be my gateway drug, and maybe actually playing a visual novel will make me more interested in them in general. I just think that a combination of the price, minimal interaction, and (generally) adult material create an almost insurmountable wall for me.

  • Herz

    You are one of the most prejudiced persons I have ever read on Siliconera. If JRPGs hadn't been localized since the Nes era they won't have a western fanbase (small that it is, excluding blockbuster series like FF) and you will be here saying that “Jrpgs appeal to Japan. And this isn't Japan”.

    The same could be said of FPShooters in Japan: they were a niche genre, but with some marketing on the part of Square Enix (CoD's publisher in Japan) they have been able to gain a solid foothold, to the dismay of those “FPS aren't for japanese!1!” people who think that market rules and consumers'tastes are set in stone at the beginning of time.

    Moreover your argument is devoid of value since the visual novel fanbase in the west is rapidly growing, both regarding official releases (see the Ds lineup) and the fantranslations (those last two years have seen a true avalanche of patches).

    Visual novels are niche? Yes.
    Will they remain niche, both in Japan and in the West? Probably so.
    Will they remain as niche as they are now? Who can say that.
    Will they remain niche because you don't like them? I don't think so.

  • wildarms

    Regarding to the name of Odyssey, ive only heard/said the name in spanish, since is my native english, sorry about that, should had “googeled” :P the english name first.
    And if you are talking about something that only appeal in japan, i remember not too long ago when anime was barely liked in places other than japan, and look now, most of the ppl have watched an anime at least once. Times changes, you cant never know what or when will change.

  • DDanny

    I'll play any visual novel in which the characters do not look/sound like 5 year old kindergartens. Too bad that's most of them…

  • http://otoboku.se manga

    So you rather have 18 year old people sound like they are 60-80?

    That doesn´t sound right either does it?

    So far I haven´t heard that many of the characters sound like 5 year olds. Not in the games I´ve been playing. So please, an example of a English translated game where this occurs so I can get a feel of what you´re talking about here.

  • http://otoboku.se manga

    With no income it is pretty hard for me to buy a lot of games. Espacially with my other hobbies being computers. It´s not cheap to get new parts.

    But you took the part that I would have complained about. It´s pricey for being a download only. But I also understand that because of what type of games these are they are not going to sell in big amounts so it is hard, very very hard to set a good price that allows you(MangaGamer) to earn some money and at the same time appear like a good price for us(customers).

    I do not know how much it would cost to produce the disc and ship it. But maybe in the future you can have an option to choose from either a bit more expensive disc version and a little cheaper download version?

  • DDanny

    No, I'd rather have 18 year old people looking like they are 18 years old instead of 7-10.
    As for the voices, I shouldn't have said that. I haven't played many visual novels with voice overs to comment. It's just the high pitched ones I don't like.

  • DDanny

    No, I’d rather have 18 year old people looking like they are 18 year old instead of 7-10.
    As for the voices, I shouldn’t have said that. I haven’t played many visual novels with voice overs to comment. It’s the high pitched ones I don’t usually like.

  • keriaku

    For the record, visual novels are waaay more epic in the story department than any game I've ever seen. People can say you're paying for a book 'with pictures', but that's incredibly downplaying it. Atleast in the upper tier, the music, sound effects, pictures, expressions and story all come together as a completely package. That's akin to saying with a platformer you're paying for levels to run through and the ability to jump.

  • Nekobo

    Same here. I'd buy Higurashi, but the price is too steep. Maybe if they bundled the episodes together for that price, I'd bite…but yeah, that's a bit much for a digital download.

    I'm okay with Demonbane being $40 since it's a retail release and has solid production values.

  • miruki

    And what if there's people who like to play a book? I for myself enjoy images accompanying a story, I like getting to decide how the main character reacts in certain situations. And there's plenty of VNs with more gameplay elements, like Kara no Shoujo, Little Witch Romanesque, Harukanaru Toki no Naka de, La Corda D'Oro (the last two are aimed at girls tho.).

    I don't see anything wrong with writing about something that has enough reader's interest here and might be getting others to get interested too.

  • http://www.twitter.com/christaran Chris Taran

    I had no idea how expensive these were. $60 USD? That's insane for something offered only in digital format and taking significantly less development effort than a regular console game for the same price.

    Cut your price in half and I think you'd at least triple the titles you sell. It's almost like you're trying to price yourself out of business.

  • http://www.youtube.com/matman125 matty

    That's just how it is for now, and the price of doing business in a niche market. I think part of the reason why they keep high is for them to see the sales get more stable, so it's natural for them to continue this practice. Otherwise, just lowering the price when there's still no sign of interest or at least enough is just cruising for a bruising.
    Honestly, though, you're right, there are not a lot of people out there that would put down 50 to 60 bucks to basically read a digital novel. It's just not in the mind of most people (not go on tangent, but “Podtoid 134: Tump” touches on the habits of customer's buying one game over another even if the reasons are extraneous). I don't blame that thought though, it is expensive, but, if things are handled properly and business is taken care of, that could change, it will just take time. Just don't do what Geneon did!

    Now, there are a few places where you can get localized VNs for about $15-$30, most of them are bit older and quality goes all over the place, but there are quite a few out there that might be worth a look.

  • http://www.twitter.com/christaran Chris Taran

    At the very least they should try something like what Steam does. Do huge sales every now and then on certain titles and see how the sell. As long as it's publicized on a site like Siliconera (so that people who don't visit MangaGamer's site all the time will know of it) I bet they'll do very well for themselves.

    If they play around with pricing that way, it will help them get a better idea of that perfect price point is where their sales escalate enough to maintain lower fees. This way they don't danger themselves from just out-and-out slashing their price permanently and possibly over devaluing their products.

    Now, I don't follow MangaGamer particularly closely (more or less limited to what Ishaan writes), so I don't know if they've tried this tactic before. But even if they have, with the greater exposure they now have from Siliconera (and possibly other sources), now might be the time to try this again.

    I know I'd buy something (Higurashi, Shuffle!, KiraKira, Da Capo, and Cosplay Alien are all games I might consider).

  • http://www.siliconera.com Ishaan

    I actually think this is a great idea, especially with older games once sales have slowed. Maybe they'll consider it at some point. :)

  • http://www.youtube.com/matman125 matty

    That's a really good idea! All they have now are a few of their demos on the site, and, iirc, they also passed out demos at Anime Expo last year. If they go again this year, that would be great as they did seem to grab a lot of attention from that.

    At AX, I think they also did a buy-one-get-one-free sale, too, which also gave them some attention, so they are at least doing that, but yeah, ticking the prices down 10, even 5 dollars would make a difference to some. It's worth a shot.

  • http://www.siliconera.com Ishaan

    Quick question; I hope this reply shows up in your mail: Is there a way to get in touch with you? I can't find any contact info on the Crimson Nocturnal site. Could you send a mail to ishaan@siliconera.com when you have the time?

  • http://www.siliconera.com Ishaan

    Quick question; I hope this reply shows up in your mail: Is there a way to get in touch with you? I can't find any contact info on the Crimson Nocturnal site. Could you send a mail to ishaan@siliconera.com when you have the time?

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