Castlevania: Mirror of Fate’s Trevor Belmont Is Like His Father

By Ishaan . June 27, 2012 . 12:30pm

The latest issue of Nintendo Power magazine brings more details on Castlevania: Lords of Shadow – Mirror of Fate, and Nintendo Everything have summarized the information on their website. For starters, according to Nintendo Power’s report, Mirror of Fate came about as a result of players who said that Lords of Shadow should have had more of an emphasis on exploration.

 

Mirror of Fate will take place mostly inside Dracula’s castle, but you’ll also get to go through some of the surrounding forests and underground caves. The game’s environments will see changes over time and you won’t be re-treading old ground with each of the four characters. This goes with what we were told about Mirror of Fate not being a “Metroidvania,” and being inspired by Castlevania III instead.

 

There will be secrets and hidden areas in Mirror of Fate, however, and more of a focus on platforming as well. You’ll be able to do wall-jumps in the game and MercurySteam also created a “safe fall” ability that lets you use your weapon to break your fall during a steep descent.

 

Executive producer, Dave Cox, says he feels that Mirror of Fate will be a “deeper” experience than the Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS. Different weapons will be effective on different enemies, and you’ll be able to look up their weaknesses and strengths in an in-game beastiary accessed through the Nintendo 3DS touch screen. Differences in the game’s four playable characters—Trevor, Simon and Alucard have been confirmed so far—will be a result of their upbringing and this will be explained in the game’s story.

 

As far as character personalities go, Trevor will be calm and collected in temperament like Gabriel. Simon, on the other hand, is the complete opposite, prone to becoming angry, and is an aggressive fighter. Not details on Alucard were mentioned.

 

Castlevania: Lords of Shadow – Mirror of Fate will be released this fall.


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  • Yuri

    The thick scottish accented english put me off completely.

    • Solomon_Kano

      Turn on sub-titles and turn down the voices? If those options end up being available, of course.

      • Yuri

        Yeah I hope there are different sliders for music, speech and sound fx.

  • SirRichard

    I would guess that Alucard is also calm and collected, given that it’s basically all but confirmed that he’s Trevor. Even if he wasn’t, he’d probably still be the stoic git he was in Symphony.

    Can’t wait for it.

    • ZBaksh386

      I guess the fourth character is dracula then.

  • Laharl


    Executive producer, Dave Cox, says he feels that Mirror of Fate will be a “deeper” experience than the Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS.”
    **** You Dave. Those games were amazing. This guy seriously can’t go one interview without taking a Jab at the old games.

    EDIT: And Seriously? Different Enemies did have weakness and resistance to different weapons in SotN-OoE.

    • manobon

      I’m guessing he meant “deeper” as “engaging”- like, there Is much exploration is the DS games, but you Were collecting many weapons that you probably didn’t use, you know? You didn’t advance because you played better, you advanced because you grinded enough/found weapons to be stronger. Whereas, with I & III, you kind of Have to play well- memorize patterns, for your actions and for the enemies’- it’s just a different type of reward system (not saying one is better than the other). 

      I’d be happy with a I/III type game, but I don’t think a game where you walk up to a place, battle a “common” skeleton enemy for a while, then continue to walk/traverse until the next enemy spawn point, is it. It looks like a 2D version of Lord of Shadows.

      Guess we’ll see what the game is actually like once the reviews hit.

      • Laharl

        I think the “Fall Break” more or less confirms the platforming will be super easy, and he’s insistent that it isn’t a Metroidvania…

        So really, besides GoW fans, I’m not sure who this is marketed to. I love the irony of him constantly jabbing at Metroidvania, but making Alucard look as IGA-tastic as ever. 

        • Exkaiser

          Wouldn’t the necessity of a fall break mechanic mean the platforming is actually inherently more dangerous? There were never any dangerous falls in Metroidvania- heck, they didn’t even drop you into spike pits or anything- all missing a jump ever meant was losing a couple seconds or a minute tops.

          Of course, it could be a worthless mechanic because there’s no difficulty involved in the platforming, but who knows at this juncture?

          • Laharl

            There were Spike’s in SotN, and they did a ton of damage as well. There were even those little spike carts that shot out from the sides of the floor.

          • Exkaiser

            Yeah, but the spikes weren’t related to platforming. The ones on the walls and floor are just to prevent you from advancing without certain items. The little spike carts are the only dangerous platforming segment in the game, and they only appear in one area.

          • Laharl


            The way I see it, the equipment and spells and subweapons of Metroidvania games are like a buffet. There’s a wide number of options, some less useful than others, but you’re really free to use whatever you like. The monsters exist for you to use your weapons and such on, not the other way around.”

            It’s an RPG, that’s how they generally work”

          • Laharl

            Just because it wasn’t full of Instant Death Traps in every room doesn’t mean there wasn’t a focus on platforming, and there were plenty of spikes littered around the Castle in SotN, not to mention things like water and enemy placement that required you to plan you jumps.

            Sure, there are plenty of game breakers later in the game like poison fog and spike boots, but there was plenty of precarious situations that needed precise timing, especially in boss fights.  

        • Testsubject909

          Fall breaking means that platforming is super easy huh?

          You know… Double jumps are fall breakers.

          Are you therefore accusing all Metroidvania games to be easy platforming games?

          edit: PS. Yes, it will be my pleasure to spot every fallacy in your arguments because, quite honestly, I think it’d do us all some good.

          And by all means, do the same to me. It’ll help us find the truth. And don’t go spouting that the truth is what you immediately personally subjectively think. That sort of relativist crap is… well… I think I just said it actually.

    • Exkaiser

      That’s not a jab- he’s not saying it to disparage the older games but to describe how his game will be different. Don’t take everything so personally. “Shallow” does not mean “bad.”

      –My apologies for the long post that follows. I only meant to type two sentences, I swear!–

      And he’s not wrong. They’re not very deep games. In fact, they’re extremely shallow, combat-wise. The elemental weakness-resistance system is a complete joke. When it’s not being useless and arbitrary (every element except light), it’s overpowered and outclasses every other weapon type in the game (light).

      For a quick example, take the two strongest 2H swords from Portrait of Ruin, the Holy Claymore and the Final Sword. The Final Sword has a much higher attack power, but the claymore naturally has a light element, meaning it does far more damage to . Virtually every enemy in the game is weak to light (up to and including Dracula himself), and the few enemies that resist light will go down easily enough to either weapon. Thus, what reason would a player have to ever touch the Final Sword? Nevermind that the HC is far easier to get than the Final Sword, or that the HC is available long before the end of the game.

      And the flip example, there’s a dark-elemental sword in Symphony of the Night. For the same reason as above, virtually every enemy is resistant to dark-elemental damage (late in the game you run through an area full of them, actually, but it doesn’t even matter because nonelemental damage works just fine). The sword also does not do a great amount more damage to enemies weak against it than a nonelemental sword of the same level (nevermind that Symphony liked to give you elemental weapons that were weaker than the nonelemental stuff from the same part of the game). You get this sword shortly before a boss that’s weak to dark, so naturally you would think this is the application, but in practice it doesn’t do any more damage in the singular situation it exists for, and it’s honestly not even worth the trouble of equipping and unequipping it. The same goes for every other elemental sword you get in the game. Sure, you can equip them and get a little bit of extra damage out of certain foes, but it’s not a meaningful advantage.

      The Metroidvanias do not encourage switching weapons to deal with different foes (Order sort of does, but most of its arsenal is still all-purpose). They would much rather the player just sticks to one weapon that works against every enemy type in the game. This is why there are so many nonelemental 1h swords with no special abilities in Symphony of the Night (and both Sorrow games…)- the basic 1H sword can take on every single enemy in the game just fine. There is no point at which you will get stuck on an enemy and the solution will be to equip a different element. Whatever you’re using, as long as it’s not the Red Rust, will work just fine.

      (as a side note, the holy rod outclasses all the weapons you find in the first castle in Symphony because holy elemental is broken)

      So why do they even bother having elements at all, if they’re nigh-on meaningless? To look cool. The elemental damage might not mean anything, but hey, my sword is a lightning bolt your argument is invalid. All those elementless 1H swords look the same, but that fire sword has its own animation and hitspark (and a useless special attack, but at least that looks cool too).

      How well Mirror of Fate does it has yet to be seen, but if it can actually encourage thoughtful weapon-switching to deal with different threats, I’ll be happy. I’m not going to hold my breath, though.

      ———-

      TL;DR: Yeah, the Metroidvanias have elements and weapon damage types, but they’re arbitrary at best. We can always hope for better. There’s no shame in saying something, even an aspect of a game you love, needs improvement.

      • Laharl

        Actually, The Sorrow Games Implore you to use different spells, as does Order and and Ruin. 

        Circle required you to utilize the cards in different ways. The problem is this game only seems to be fleshing out the number of buttons and combos used in core combat, at the cost of every other element Castlevania is and ever was known for.

        • Exkaiser

          Portrait definitely doesn’t do it. All of the magic is less useful than just mowing through things as Jonathan. Jonathan, meanwhile, doesn’t need to change his equipment for different situations, just to the player’s taste.

          Soma definitely doesn’t have any trouble killing things without switching weapons. You can basically just pick whatever missile soul you like and it’ll work for you, same with weapon. I went through the entirety of Aria with just the Handgun and Silver Handgun, and it really wasn’t particularly different.

          Order does want you to use different weapons, and for the most part it works, but the elemental spells are still kind of chintzy, and for the last third of the game, you can basically go through the entire castle with one weapon set.

          • Laharl

            And how is that any different from any other adventure game?

            Or any different from LoS’s “Here’s this enemy type again, use the same combo and abilities as the last several dozen times you faced them”

            Also, you seem to ignoring that I said “Spells” as well. There is no way to make it throw Sorrow without utilizing a vast array of Souls.

          • Exkaiser

            It’s not any different, really. That actually weakens your argument, though, because now all you are saying is that the genre standard is shallow gameplay- which is true. It’s not necessarily a flaw, either. Shallow combat just suits some games. And, well, we’re not talking about Lords of Shadow’s fighting depth here, and neither is Cox . Frankly, I don’t care one way or the other about that game. Mirror of Fate is a new game that is not yet out, and that means it has a chance to deepen the combat. The developers understand that they can try to do something different from previous entries. Whether they will be successful is another matter entirely. I hope for the best, but I figure it’ll most likely be either exactly the same as previous games (weapon types don’t really matter) or at worst it’ll be frustrating and poorly-implemented (annoying to switch between weapons all the time, etc).

            Uh, what’s an action-adventure game with deep combat? Shinobi PS2 comes to mind. That’s an extremely hit-or-miss game because of it- a lot of people simply don’t want to have to try that hard to fight things.

            You can make it through Sorrow without utilizing a “vast array of Souls.” Yes, sure, you need to use the mandatory souls like the glide and the slide to get through, but as far as non-mandatory souls go, you’ll easily find one that suits most situations and just use that (really, it’s less about using souls based on the enemies and more using souls based on Soma’s capabilities- like, the first soul they give you is decent, but you can’t really use it because the MP cost is too high). Like I said, I made it through the game with the hand gun and extremely little bullet soul usage. It’s not particularly different.

            The way I see it, the equipment and spells and subweapons of Metroidvania games are like a buffet. There’s a wide number of options, some less useful than others, but you’re really free to use whatever you like. The monsters exist for you to use your weapons and such on, not the other way around.

          • Laharl

            None of this is disproving my point that Cox is full of crap. 
             IGA’s games had Elemental factors, which is something Cox claims it didn’t. 

            You just ramble on and on about how SotN and the like can be exploited. Which isn’t any different from LoS or almost any other game.
            There is plenty of depth in the older Castlevania games, both Classic and IGA. And I don’t see how sacrificing the platforming and exploration elements to make more combat options makes the game deeper.

          • Testsubject909

            Sacrificing platforming and exploration elements?

            Are you reading the same article we’re reading here? If anything, it seems to me that they’re quite focused on having platforming and exploration elements here.
            Also, if you ask me. You’re losing the argument.

            Badly.

            You’re being very emotional here and allowing your dislike of the man and/or of his work impede with your thoughts.I should know. It’s happened to me before. But I’d like to think that at least I was able to redirect my attention to different flaws and whatnot to be able to break down what i was trying to convey.

          • Exkaiser

            Playing the game like a normal human being is exploiting it? Sorry, don’t think so. Enemies in Metroidvania don’t require the expenditure of mental energy to defeat, they’re just there to make exploring the castle a little more interesting.

            Combat is shallow, and you keep saying as much yourself. “Other things are just as shallow” isn’t an argument for depth of play. Quite the opposite, in fact. And, as I have said, calling the combat shallow is not an insult. So what’s the point of denying it without an actual argument to be made?

            What’s it like, nitpicking the details instead of focusing on the overall meaning? It seems to be making you awfully irritated. Whether Cox was wrong about the elemental system of the DS games is neither here nor there (and, in fact, this article doesn’t even quote him as saying that, but that’s also neither here nor there). What’s the point of being snide about it? I could understand if it was a key gameplay mechanic (or even a meaningful gameplay mechanic), but it’s nothing close to one. It seems you just want reasons to hate on Cox, which is also why you take every little thing he says as a direct attack on your favorite Castlevania games.

    • Scrooge_McDuck

      How is that “taking a jab at the old games”? Did he say that the older games are shallow?

      • Laharl

        “10 million useless swords” as he said in earlier.
        More or less, He is saying that.
        Then again, there are plenty of sub-par unlockable skills and moves in LoS, so he’s one to talk.

        • Testsubject909

          Different games, different goals.

          In LoS, he wanted to replicate the feel of Super Castlevania 4. And, despite what people may think, I believe he succeeded quite well for better and worse. Super Castlevania 4 was, for better or worse, a flawed Castlevania game despite all the nostalgia glasses people are wearing that prevents them from admitting it.

          Right now, his 10 million useless swords comment stands for the Metroidvania genre and his Castlevania 3 inspired game. While yes, these are rather big words to say and that the examples provided are not the best to make use of, it still doesn’t deny that there is a means and a way to do so.

          The biggest problem that I can think of for the Metroidvania genres of SOTN to OOE was that in the end game, a lot of abilities and items and whatnot were indeed just useless fluff, completely optional and far from optimal with nearly everyone keeping with the same end-game objects.

          SOTN? Sword Familiar with Crissaegim, you’re done. Or Shield Rod with Alucard Shield if you really want to break the game.

          As such, similar things have cropped up since. With the latter DS games, your a-typical end game R skill was always going to be Black Panther for both it’s dodging, platforming, rapid and, pending the version, offensive capabilities and most everyone uses similar end game uber setups that really takes out any sort of strategical depth by the end of the game.

          Depth in those games as the game goes forward becomes more optional rather then mandatory. From his approach, it seems that his depth is thus made more mandatory and grounded while the depth from the DS games, and you’re going to hate me for saying this, is more comparable to the depth in the home console Castlevania Lords of Shadow’s whip combat depth.

          It’s there, if you choose to dwelve into it and have a lot of fun with it and figure each and every use for it. But otherwise, for both the DS games and for LoS, you can just stick to the plain bread and butter everyone’s making use of to win the game (The equivalent of LoS ultimate holy attack).

          BUT! And this is a must here.

          I will not deny that what he said is very braggard and indeed rather high and mighty. I hope for him that he can bring it, because if he fails to. Well, we all know people like you will be quite glad to rip him a new one.

          • Laharl

            I guess in a way he succeeded in making CV4, Instead of trying anything new he just did what was successful in the past. Unfortunately in doing so he abandoned most of what made Castlevania… Castlevania and just made it European God of War.

            Sword Familiar and Crassaegrim were high level and rare drops, you might as well complain that FF7 had Omni-Slash and KoR.

            EDIT: All that being said, He still treats LoS like it is the golden god of Castlevania, when most reviews put it smack dab in the middle of the road.

          • Testsubject909

            Crissaegim is not the only uber item in the game and really there’s little variety in the different uber items in the game. The most common uber item is probably the Alucard Sword for those who just didn’t grind or whatnot.

            Also, I’d argue he abandoned nothing of what made Castlevania but did indeed fumble when it came to the music, which is the feel of Castlevania since sound is emotion.

            LoS felt, for better and for worse, as a natural evolutionary step for Castlevania though with a distinctive retro step backward in it’s core design.

            It wasn’t the step people would’ve expected, but it was one that still worked within Castlevania. As for him treating LoS as the golden god of Castlevania, I don’t think so. He is prideful, but I don’t think it’s to the same infuriating point as, let’s say for example, Tameem.

          • Laharl

            Besides a Whip, What does LoS have in common with the rest?

            Or I should say, it feels infinitely more like God of War in tone and storytelling than a Castlevania game. Switch a few names, it’s God of War Zero.

            EDIT: And he’s incessantly reminding people it is “The most successful castlevania yet”, While ignoring the middle of the road reviews and the fact it was the largest potential audience a CV game was ever released to, with the largest budget and advertising campaign in series history.

          • Testsubject909

            Alright, if you insist on asking me what the common points are between Lords of Shadow and all other Castlevanias, allow me to begin with random points.

            The whip is prominent and is a similar story in it’s origins to Lament of Innocence which works well for a reboot.

            The belmont family begins anew so it works well in a parallel retelling of the Lament of Innocence story.

            Gabriel is a Cronqvist which works wonderfully with the retelling of the Cronqvist tale in Lament of Innocence, it is, story wise, a very interesting retelling and thus a proper reboot of the series.

            The ambiance is very moody, atmospheric and diverse with multiple biodomes similarly to a majority of Castlevania games.

            The game begins from outside of the castle grounds and goes to Castlevania, much like many Castlevania games (even the most recent Iga one, OoE does the same).

            The creatures found within are mythological creatures of fantasy much like all other Castlevania games.

            The 3D action is specifically, when described, the equivalent of a 3D Castlevania game. Whip action with platforming and puzzles. This describes all 3D Castlevania games, including the heavily flawed N64 ones.

            The stage transitions presents a map and movement much like all the classic Castlevania games.

            Do you want me to continue here? I can continue here…

            Let’s go with subweapons, it has a variety of old and new subweapons similar to Castlevania, one of the subweapon is a crystal, crystals which has featured in Castlevania both in N64′s Castlevania and in the Genesis version of Castlevania.

            Destroying miscellaneous items provides subweapon refills, much like every Castlevania, this does not mean it should drop hearts because not every Castlevanias prior to Cox’s has had Hearts as drops…

            Do you WANT me to continue?

            Shall we regress perhaps, go back to how people blamed SOTN for being the death of Castlevania? Shall we go to Lament of Innocence and talk about how much that was a rip-off of DMC according to fans?

            Shall we?

            I can tango all night long buddy!

            Also. Successful doesn’t mean the best reviewed, it means sales. Sales. Numbers. Money. If it did very well comparatively to the other Castlevanias… Well guess what? That’s a fact and that’s hard to refute!

            Successful does not mean the most critically acclaimed. Keep that in mind. BIG difference.

          • Laharl

            I don’t really see why you insist on ignoring my main point that his one example of “The New Depth” is a feature introduced in SotN.
            Cox’s is full of it. Removing the freedom of SotN style and forcing people to master the one style of whip fighting isn’t depth, it’s a re-focus. And it’s a re-focus on the popular God of War style.My issue isn’t that CV is changing, It’s that it’s changing to something even more played out than Metroidvania. 

          • Testsubject909

            That’s because you’re forgetting his prior statements about the game… Actually you’re applying a double standard.

            You made use of the 10 million sword argument while ignoring the rest of his statement as to how what he had planned for the game would add depth to the game, instead focusing solely on the commentary found in this article while utilizing the rest to advantage your own side without the full context.

            Also, that last bit? Yeah, that’s not clear in your argument.

            To date, your argument is not that you dislike the refocus unto a more played out style. So yes, it’s nice for you to reclarify but it does put to question some of your prior arguments.

            Also, having someone master a single form of fighting = No depth?

            But providing full freedom of, mind you I have played and finished SOTN probably around 4 times now and I love the game to death but… Providing the full freedom of SOTN is depth?

            Excuse me for saying this but… They are very different forms of depth, and one does not belittle the other.

            It’s like telling me that… A buffet’s freedom of choice of food has more depth then a gourmet burger at a fine restaurant.

            I’m sorry but. They both have depth. Both quite different yet partially similar depth. And if you fail to see it. Well, quite frankly, that’s your problem.

          • Laharl

            Except the Belmont family didn’t “Begin Anew”, it was just a name they randomly gave him, before they randomly decided to give him kids in MoF.

            The names are rather arbitrary in the Reboot, none of the characters really act like any of their namesakes, besides being the same species.

            Ambiance and mood is important to EVERY game, this one pretty much throws the elaborate gothic style out the window for most of the game in favor of generic EPIC FANTASY.

            The Castle is never the focus of LoS though, in fact you leave it before the game is even over, it’s just there to house a vampire. The whole Demon Castle aspect is just a footnote in LoS… Where as being the main driving point of the rest of the series.
            Much like most Fantasy Games, those monsters aren’t really unique to Castlevania. They seemed to put most of the focus on new entities anyway, like the Lords, Titans,  Pan and Satan.

            Except the Open Ended-ness of the IGA games and the Brutal Platforming of the Classic Style, but it did a mighty fine job of the GoW style.

            And even the numbers aren’t set in stone, They said shipped, not sold. There is no telling if the numbers are anywhere near the level of SotN, not even taking into account the digital Re-Released of SotN that sold quite well this gen.

          • Testsubject909

            It’s… A… Reboot…

            Also, they didn’t just randomly give him his name. It had value, when you think about how the story progresses, this provides a great mean and motivation for his progeny, for the BELMONT CLAN to HUNT DOWN DRACULA…

            Get it? See where this is going? See how this helps to explain a new timeline of Castlevania? See how that helps to remain faithful to the whole Belmont hunting down Castlevania across the ages thing?

            Also… Elaborate Gothic Style HAS been in this game, and it oozes it while also being filled with the feel of an epic fantasy… How much of the game did you even play?

            The cemetery, the scarecrow filled fields, the pathway across the snowy mountains upward towards the looming castle, the castle itself, how does none of that evoke or portrait dark, moody, elaborate gothic style? Also, I’d like to note, prior Castlevanias have also had this blend of generic fantasy to gothic, some even had much less gothic flavor.

            Also… Guess what? Some of the prior Castlevanias? They don’t END at the castle, in fact one of them has you running across the countryside where the Castle happens to just be one of the stages in the middle… Middle… of the game, and the last boss? Not Dracula (if memory serves me well, might need to redouble check that bit of info).

            As for the demon castle, it formed the majority of the central piece of the story while similarly being a traversal, yes, but one that had much weight on the story and on the protagonist. And I again repeat, No. The Castle has not always been the main driving point of the rest of the series. If that’s what you honestly believe, you obviously need to go double your efforts and look again at Castlevania as a whole.

            Also, for the mythos, I’m guessing they attempted to remain far more faithful to the locale and thus to the mythology surrounding the area as opposed to turning it into a mishmash of mythos, which I myself also prefer (That is, having tons of mythological beings from various different religions all being in the castle, but hey, I understood and respected their direction and approach and it did fit the environment).

            Also… I’d like to tell you, initially, you know how well SotN sold? Initially, when it first shipped for PS1? Yeah?

            It took SotN YEARS and multiple re-releases to get to the numbers it’s at now… YEARS… So your scaling of events? It’s flawed and it’s causing your argument to BE flawed.

            So I’m asking you. Tune up your arguments to better present your point and be clear. Be CLEAR about your point… Because, I’m being honest, I was confused as to what you’re trying to prove halfway through other then your dislike of Cox’s attitude or trying to convince people that the game is just mindlessly being a clone…

            Which again, if you’re going to try, I’m going to ask you to send Lament of Innocence down the same hole, which in turn will also reduce some of your ability to defend your point, defend Iga and attack Cox’s Castlevania because you lose an immediate point of comparison by taking down Iga partially. Which, might I note, does NOT help your side of the argument.

          • Laharl

            Gourmet Burger? Are you kidding me?

            LoS does some good things, but to say that SotN is a Chinese Buffet and LoS is a 5 star restaurant is absurd.

            But all the strawmen in the world isn’t really showing how Cox isn’t full of it and a huge hypocrite who constantly back peddles and contradicts himself in the direction of MoF.

          • Testsubject909

            Yo. You know why I went with Gourmet Burger? It’s far from the meal that has the greatest amount of finesse. Plus, to many people, gourmet burger or regular burger, a burger’s a burger and it’s still a form of fast food.

            SotN’s WEAPON System was definitely a freaking buffet. Yes, you had TON of choices, and selection, but ultimately if you knew your buffet well, you’d go straight to the good stuff which limits it down anyways and only provides a very superficial form of depth in that aspect, specifically THAT aspect, which is that of the illusion of great choice, while yes it is available, it ultimately doesn’t vary much.

            Also. Considering how what he’s shown makes sense with the idea of exploration and that of a Castlevania 3 game, and considering how he pinpointed what aspect of Metroidvania he disagreed with, I for one don’t think he’s actually back peddling or contradicting himself, but I will say that ultimately he is on a losing fight in his attempt to differentiate from the Metroidvania identification because that is the popular identification being utilized.

            He wants to try and attempt to separate himself from Iga’s work and I can understand where he’s coming from, but I understand as well that it’s not going to be a fight he’ll be winning.

            Now as to how that affects the marketing of the game, I don’t really see the big hiccup here other then those obsessing and reaching.

          • Laharl


            ‘m sorry but. They both have depth. Both quite different yet partially similar depth. And if you fail to see it. Well, quite frankly, that’s your problem. ”

            I never said one was deeper than the other, I said the Cox was full of crap for saying MoF would be deeper than SotN…

            But thanks for proving my point sport.

          • Testsubject909

            I still don’t get what your point is. Basically I’m still confused what you’re trying to get across. (PS, back from a shower, so sorry for the intermission)

            As for whether or not MoF would be deeper than SotN. It does have the possibility, is it though? I don’t know. I haven’t played the game and I’ve only got details to date, but the details are encouraging and, on paper. Note, again, ON PAPER… It does sound like it has the Possibility. POSSIBILITY… of being as deep or deeper then SotN, but in a different way.

          • Laharl

            You clearly don’t “Get” my point, you’ve been arguing about completely unrelated things the entire time. 
            If you actually read my opening post you’d realize I was criticizing Cox for all his jabs at SotN, and how his newest example of MoF alleged deeper combat is an element introduced in SotN.

          • Testsubject909

            Okay…

            You’re critizicing Cox for his jabs at SotN, but what you’ve been doing was jabbing his work on all sides as opposed to focusing on that core aspect, at least that’s what I’m seeing.

            And… the alleged deeper combat is an element introduced in SotN? I don’t see what you mean by that and I don’t see where you read that in the article. Actually, if it’s phrased in the way you’re phrasing it, doesn’t that mean that Cox is actually admitting that he’s being inspired by SotN and therefore providing credit for it?

            … You see why I’m being confused about your post here? Because… MoF’s deeper combat element isn’t related to SotN… Not in any way… You have fixed fighting elements based on which character you control which again is far more similar to Castlevania 3…

            So I don’t see how that is an element introduced in SotN…

          • Testsubject909

            PS. Yes. I haven’t been getting your point.

            Because I’ve been counter-arguing your arguments…

            And guess what? If what I said is, according to you, unrelated… That means your arguments?

            Yeah…

          • Laharl

            “Executive producer, Dave Cox, says he feels that Mirror of Fate will be a “deeper” experience than the Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS. Different weapons will be effective on different enemies, and you’ll be able to look up their weaknesses and strengths in an in-game beastiary accessed through the Nintendo 3DS touch screen.”
            Seriously? You don’t see the hypocrisy in that?

            EDIT: In case you don’t, that’s a feature SotN introduced to the series.

          • Testsubject909

            Is that a direct quote or is that just a description? I ask because of the period that clearly separates the two statements.

            If it is indeed a direct quote, yes, I can see how that is indeed a poor statement, choice of word and as you say a piece of hypocrisy.

            But as it is, I don’t believe that this is what he means when he talks about a deeper experience when taking in context the previous articles that speaks more about the gameplay.

            Article that you yourself did quote to try and drive in your own argument when you talked about the 10 million sword bit. Because if you do include that in your argument, it actually helps his situation here because it justifies well what he means by a deeper experience, that is to say that of having a singular style to master.

            Now. What I’m curious about is the different weapons that he’s talking about because that bit does indeed confusing. Though keeping in mind that MoF has 4 different characters, does that mean the weapons are whip tip attachment similar to HoD on the GBA? Or does that only relate to MoF’s Alucard?

            ALSO… He stated that the experience will be Deeper then the DS games, this doesn’t connect directly back to SotN, but also, the latter half, the description of different weapons and access to a beastiary sounds far more like a description of features as opposed to a description of what makes the game deeper.

            So…

            Again…

            You… Are… Reaching. And the bits and pieces of your prior arguments that relies on information outside of the immediate statement you provide does not help your case.

            So while yes, I do see the potential hypocrisy. Ultimately, if you ask me, it is not clearly present. You are going for circumstantial evidence here. Circumstantial. This could just easily be incidental and thus not the intended showcase of said “Deeper” experience.

          • Laharl

            Seriously dude, that quote is from this article. I’m not stretching, this guy backtracks and downtalks IGA’s games all the time, while constantly taking elements IGA added to the series without shame.

            I could go on and on about how Cox is a jackass…http://kotaku.com/5922531/if-koji-igarashi-is-tim-burton-dave-cox-says-hes-christopher-nolan But I think this article will sum it up better than I can.

          • Testsubject909

            No no no. You don’t get what I mean.

            Is this statement a full unbroken quote?

            Or was the first part a description of his intent followed by a description of some features in the game?

            See how there’s a lack of “” quotation marks? And how there’s a clear Period between his statement and the detailing of features in the game?

            This means that this could easily just be a misunderstanding from your part. The first is a statement from Cox that he believes his game has deeper elements. And THEN is followed by a random description of features in the game that is not the core and central piece of what he meant by a deeper bit of gameplay… Anyways.

            *Goes to read the article*

            Okay. I’m back.

            I fail to see this bashing…

            Seriously, if you read the article in full. It sounds like he has respect to Iga’s work but wants to focus on doing his own retelling much like how Tim’s Batman and Nolan’s Batman differs so heavily.

            So…

            Quit projecting? Seriously… That’s a big risk when it comes to online, projection tends to murk your vision. I should know, it’s happened to me in the past.

          • Laharl

            “”So I asked him the all important question. If Koji Igarashi and the Castlevania of old was Tim Burton’s take on Batman?

            “Then we’re Chris Nolan, mate. All the way.” Dave smiled wide as he said this.””

            I don’t think I’m projecting in this case, this is clearly a smirk of superiority.

          • Testsubject909

            So someone tells you a guy smiled wide. For whatever reason, you don’t know.

            And you immediately assume it’s a smirk of superiority?

            Couldn’t it be. Oh I don’t know… A smile of pride and joy at all of his hard work slowly coming to fruition? Maybe a smile of just having a good time with someone who’s friendly? Maybe a smile at the honor of the position that he’s in right now and of the great joy at having a go at a series that he loves?

            No? Absolutely, no doubt whatsoever, smirk of superiority without any smidgeon of possible projection of your own personal feeling towards Cox painting the situation?

          • Laharl

            Read the article on this page and tell me yourself. I can’t speak for the context intended of the journalist, just the way the article was written.

            Seriously? Calling it Burton and Him Nolan is a huge Put down.

            The burton movies are seen as a joke, while Nolan’s are generally considered  the best made comic movies ever. I may be reading into things too much, but you seem to be giving things too easy of a pass.

          • Testsubject909

            Well… To begin with.

            I loved the Tim Burton Batman movies and I also love the Nolan batman movies.

            But on the flip side, I found the Batman Begin to be a rather very flawed movie with a very bad and disappointing ending which doesn’t make it superior to Tim Burton’s initial take on Batman.

            Plus, it’s really more of the situation that it seems that he can compare it to because in recent news and general knowledge to the populace, this is the closest example he can make use of for people to understand the situation.

            So yes, you’re reading too much into it, and yes, I am giving him a pass but that’s also because, despite some key elements lacking from his first work, which is similar to how I wasn’t overly thrilled with Nolan’s Batman Begin, I still see the hard work, love, dedication and how the game is a Castlevania, much like how Nolan is Batman without being the same as Tim Burton’s take.

            And… Honestly? Looking at other makers creating reboots to long standing series? Cox is doing fine… whereas Tameem?

            Oh boy Tameem…

          • Laharl

            Nolan’s movies are considered vastly superior by a large majority of film critics and fans. Your personal view has no bearing on the context of the comment.

            The comment CLEARLY shows an air of superiority, given the overwhelming critical and financial success of The Dark Knight. On top of which Cox’s constant Jabs at the SotN style support the superiority complex.

          • Laharl

            Also, Nice job taking a jab at a game that hasn’t even been released yet, as far as we know DMC could be the best DMC yet, and he hasn’t compared himself to an Oscar winning director.

        • Laharl

          Doh…

  • Solomon_Kano

    Not much new here, but the little bits we’re getting are cool. I’d imagine Alucard won’t be much different from Trevor.

    Cox has a bit to live up to going at the DS Castlevanias though. I prefer Aria of Sorrow to all of them but, if nothing else, they were certainly deep games.

  • neetyneety

    Agree with Laharl, the Castlevania games on DS were astoundingly deep, I hope for the life of this guy that he can back up his claims.

    In the end though, I’m just excited to play another Castlevania game, so I’m still stoked for this.

  • Mago Iichi

    A deeper experience than Dawn of Sorrow? Order of Ecclesia? Portrait of Ruin?

    Get the hell out of here with those lies.

    • Testsubject909

      Wait till the game’s out before you judge buddy.

      There are ways to make deeper experiences then those games.

      Portrait of ruin had some fun ideas but also some flawed ideas and much like any other metroidvanias, it suffered from end game uberness. That is to say, that by the end, there really was little to no strategy involved.

      Use your strongest stuff to nearly auto-win. The greater depth if you will that you could find were in the lv 1 challenges. And even then, most nearly everyone just took up the same combination of items to succeed through it.

      As such, there are indeed ways to make a deeper game then these. The question now is. Does he indeed succeed in doing so, or does he fail?

  • Göran Isacson

    Ooooh, deeper than the DS games? Them’s fighting words you zany Spaniard!

    This is where I’d put one of those “this gon’ be gud” gifs if this format supported it, but instead you will have to suffice with simply knowing that I’m watching this space for reactions, and I’m DEFINITELY wathching this game to see if he can deliver. Time to put up or shut up, Mister Cox…

    • http://twitter.com/Talosizanagi Blank Slato

       I just want him to shut up…really. 

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        If you have nothing productive to say, don’t say anything at all, please. I see you’re new around these parts. Here are our posting rules: http://bit.ly/LIfktr

  • http://www.gamefaqs.com/features/recognition/21421.html?type=4 Kashell

    Probably about as deep as a teaspoon. But, I’m just spitballing. 

  • Mildra

    I know i’m gonna burn in geek hell for saying this, but i’m glad that the metroidvania style is taking a break, considering that its been pushed to death since around 1998. don’t get me wrong, I have nothing against it per se, but I resent the idea that its the way it HAS to be done or its “not really castlevania”.

    • Happy Gamer

      im a die hard metrovania style fan believe me. But at the same time, I am always open for new ideas as long as they are executed right. I didn’t even complain about Metroid Other M. I actually felt the game was very fun to play. It def was far from as good as the prime series but As my name states, I’m pretty enthusiastic about just playing games in general.
      Lords of Shadow was a pretty nice surprise for me. I hope this title does well.

      I would love to see an updated graphics style of the metrovania game tho. They haver reused the same graphics like you said, from 1998. 

      • Mildra

        I think we had “metroidvania with updated graphics” with Lament of Innocence and (to an extent) Curse of Darkness….. at that time at least. Sadly, “metroidvania with updated graphics” is no different in my eyes than the 60-dollar roster updates of most sports games.

      • Testsubject909

        Allow me to state. I would never deny that Other M is fun to play.

        It’s the story. The story is what most views as a travesty.

  • http://www.fogalchemist.com/ caleb1993

    Those are fighting words. Even I’m slightly put off by them (and I typically am on the side of LoS) as I found Dawn of Sorrow and Order of Ecclesia to be very deep games themselves. To get deeper than them would be a tough thing to do.

    I really hope that this game can live up to this claim. It would be horrible if it didn’t since there are Igavania fans who are just waiting for some blood to hit the water.

    I’m still excited for the game myself though. A new Castlevania is always good for me.  

  • Peace Legacy

    “Executive producer, Dave Cox, says he feels that Mirror of Fate will be a “deeper” experience than the Castlevania games on the Nintendo DS. Different weapons will be effective on different enemies, and you’ll be able to look up their weaknesses and strengths in an in-game beastiary accessed through the Nintendo 3DS touch screen.”

    …that is exactly the same with DS version -_-

  • Calibraexis

    Cox and Konami should hang their heads in shame for making this Mirror of Fate an exclusive for the 3DS. LoS was born on a console, and LoS2 will end the trilogy on the same consoles. The centerpiece is on a handheld with a screen the size of a playing card. Really? Nice way to alienate the ones who bought LoS and made it such a great selling game. What a pity. I wonder how much Nintendo shelled out for this exclusive? How are we to appreciate the graphics on this game with such a tiny screen? Mirror of Fate should be released on multiple platforms so everyone can have the pleasure of playing it. No game except for publisher created titles should be exclusive to one platform. But, the $$ rules the roost. 

    • Testsubject909

      Well… It’s a gaming Industry. It’s a Business.

      Things like these are always bound to happen. Though considering how the older Castlevania games have been pretty much everywhere themselves (Nes, Snes, Genesis, N64, Gameboy, GBA, PS2, DS, PSP, PSN) you can’t really be surprised to find that they’d eventually make a portable version.

      Though I will agree on one point. It would’ve been great if they would’ve made it multiplatform for both 3DS and PSV, at least provide more choices here and it’s not as if it would’ve been impossible to adapt the game to be serviceable on both handhelds without changing the overall feel and content of the game.

    • Laharl

      He wants to sucker in the IGA fans by putting it on the Handheld with Bishi Alucard on a 2D plane.

      • SirRichard

        Are you listening to yourself? You’re coming across as a paranoid conspiracy theorist here, man.

        • Laharl

          So you think it’s a total coincidence they do a 2D castlevania on the DS starring Alucard, who looks NOTHING like the CV3 version they supposedly based the game off, but EXACTLY like the SotN version?

          • SirRichard

            I don’t, mate, I think it’s a nice callback/reference to the original series and that it’s respectful to stick to the finalised design of Alucard, instead of a vindictive move to swindle those good, earnest and loyal IGA fans of their hard-earned money.

            Like, get upset over their gameplay decisions all you want, mate, but really? This is a petty thing to get upset over.

          • Laharl

            I’m not upset, I’m calling the game out on what it is.

            He can say time and time again he isn’t influenced by Metroidvania, But the proof is in the pretty blond gothing pudding.

          • SirRichard

            @Laharl_Krichevskoy:disqus I can tell by the rest of your comments on the article that you clearly are upset by Cox’s statements and the like, and if you’re not upset then you’re obsessing over this pretty badly, especially for a game you’re not going to play (or at least, you’ve given no intention of playing it).

          • Laharl

            Says the guy starting an argument about an offhanded comment

            EDIT: But I suppose you are right, using a nearly exact copy of IGA’s Alucard instead of creating his own adaptation of the character in the reboot was certainly in no way to serve as an olive branch to the fans of the SotN games.

          • SirRichard

            @Laharl_Krichevskoy:disqus None of your comments on this article were offhand at all mate, and you’ve a weird idea of what constitutes an argument. I’m just pointing out that you’re getting rather overzealous in your dislike of this game and developer, to the point that you’re calling them out for little things.

          • Laharl

            Actually, it was offhanded. 

            I saw his question, and immediately answered it in a snarky way without a second thought.

            Though your analysis of my comments as an attempt to judge my psyche does upset me. It’s one thing to defend a game for whatever reason, but to accuse my actions as some sort of psychotic emotional crusade is rather off-putting.

            Like Test said, it’s a business, and  what better way to sell copies than to put the series breakout star from his Breakout game design on display? 

          • SirRichard

            @Laharl_Krichevskoy:disqus Well, forgive for me saying this, but it’s not that hard to get such an impression when one scrolls down the page and sees the likes of “**** you Dave”. I see you’re taking me wrong by the use of “psychotic”, so I’ll stop, but you are getting pretty zealous over minor comments and little parts of interviews. 

            If it bothers you that much, why not just stop paying it any attention? Lords of Shadow 2 will end any serious involvement on their part, from there it’s down to Konami what happens. They might keep it going, they might decide on a new direction again, who can say?

          • Laharl

            I could ask you the same question, why keep stalking me and criticizing my behavior?
            You are taking an offhanded comment on a message board I make and projecting the crusade you have against me on my posting habits.

          • SirRichard

            @Laharl_Krichevskoy:disqus …This is the second time we’ve crossed. That constitutes “stalking”? This is a “crusade” now? You need to calm down, mate, you’re taking this way too seriously. If it was a stalking crusade, I would’ve joined in below and hunted you on other articles, but I don’t, do I? Stop taking disagreement with your opinions so seriously.

            EDIT: And that’s what I get for not reading the rest of my emails/scrolling up. Sorry, M’iau, my fault entirely.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            @SirRichard:disqus @Testsubject909:disqus I think everyone has had the chance to say their peace on this subject. 

            (Ref asks for a clean break.)

  • M’iau M’iaut

    Everything alright in here tonight folks? Good. Glad to see nice discussions.

    The loligoddess goes back to what she was doing before.

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