PC Gamers, Tell Agarest: Generations of War’s Publisher How You Feel About DLC

By Ishaan . November 21, 2013 . 3:29pm

Following feedback from PC gamers about the amount of DLC in Agarest: Generations of War for the PC, publisher Ghostlight have initiated a conversation with their fans regarding the differences between the PC and console markets, and the preferences of PC gamers that bought the Agarest title off Steam. Here’s what Ghostlight say:

 

Hi everyone.

Thank you for all your recent comments regarding the DLC for Agarest. This is our first PC game and we are still learning about some of the differences between the PC and console markets :)

 

We appreciate the concerns about the volume of DLC available (and admittedly there is a lot) but all the DLC was taken from the Japanese console version and we wanted to offer it to you to replicate the same options that were originally made available in Japan. We also just wanted to make it clear that the DLC is entirely optional and is not needed in order to be able to complete the game. The only DLC that includes new gameplay content (the additional dungeons) was included in the PC release for free while the rest was designed for gamers who feel they could use a little extra help with the game.

 

As I’ve said, we are still learning about the requirements of PC gamers so we would genuinely like to hear more of your thoughts on DLC and how you would like us to handle other games that use the same DLC model in the future.

Thank you for your feedback

 

So, if you picked Agarest up for PC and want to let Ghostlight know about your buying habits, you can do so here or here. We’ve been seeing an increasing number of Japanese games being brought over to PC of late, and the more publishers learn about the PC marketplace, the better.


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  • William Hsia

    a sin against humanity
    an excuse for game devs to sell a half assed game for full price
    a conspiracy

    • KuroNathan

      … but most of the dlc is just weapons and extra money?

      I haven’t played the game but I’m assuming equipment doesn’t make up half the game

      • Tyler Beale

        You are indeed correct. DLC gear, items, and points.

        Although Compile Heart likes to make their games unfairly hard, so DLC will surely help….a lot. At least for the 1st half of the game.

        • KuroNathan

          The only compile heart games I played were Mugen Souls and Neptunia mk 2, both of which were insanely easy

          • William Hsia

            i was actually answerting to the title of this article not just on agarest war. if its just on said game, yes dlc does not effect story or gameplay…if you start on easy mode, dlc for aragrest gives you pretty much end game equips and the fact that you can get such equips just by paying a few bucks is, quite honesty, horrid. now the game itself isnt hard, but its not easy either, neptunia and mugen are when they pretty much started going easy on the grind(not to say that there isnt) and the difficulty was taken out. and nepunia does have campain dlcs, i know 2 of them were free for mk2 but i remember a few you had to pay for.

          • revenent hell

            If a person wants to play the game overpowered from the start who is that hurting exactly?
            Its not a multiplayer game where your slaughtering your opponents because your over leveled or over equipped.
            The only thing this type of DLC does is make the game a breeze early on and if someone wants to do that why shouldn’t they if they choose to? It is a single player game.
            Would you rather they sold story arcs or endings as DLC, Characters? I wouldn’t. Anything that impacts any part of the story of the game shouldn’t, in my view, be sold as DLC or if it is (as it is here) should be free.
            I really cant comprehend how selling “levels” and armor/weapons is horrid. On a DLC level I find it the mostly acceptable kind.

          • Göran Isacson

            I think that most people who object to developers selling “levels” and armor/weapon do so because the developers tend to, more often than not, be VERY underhanded about this and purposefully make their games REALLY FREAKING UNBALANCED and say, require you to grind for FAR longer than if you simply bought the super deluxe equipment and levels. They essentially make the game more dull if you DON’T buy the extra doo-dads.

            Does this ALWAYS happen? I couldn’t tell, but I don’t think so. But I have seen it happen ENOUGH so that I understand where the skeptics are coming from. When a developer monetizes something like this, there’s always a good chance that the gameplay and level design WILL suffer, that the game will be developed with selling the extra equipment in mind, rather than actually making a fun game from the get-go.

          • revenent hell

            Ok I can understand this and see the reasoning.

            But for this particular game if done in easy mode I think it would be a breeze with the DLC, in hard mode without it would be a mite longer to accomplish but could be done.
            I don’t think its a forced necessity to have to knock off grinding time if you play the game as most first timers normally would.
            Sure it could make developers do what you suggest but I think far to many people would complain about the unnecessary grinding needing to be done just to complete the game/require one to buy the DLC to complete the game in a reasonable amount of time for them to really want to force a person to this decision..
            At least as far as a “normal” and not hard mode goes.

          • Göran Isacson

            Mmm, I can’t really say anything about this game in particular because I have no idea what it does and doesn’t do. So while I’m not gonna automatically assume that any game that offers DLC like this IS going to nickel and dime me, I will probably think it at the back of my head. It’s an ugly side of the modern industry, and it’s gotten a lot of people on edge.

            Also, regarding that people would complain… it’s true that they would, and a developer looking at a long-term perspective would realize this and see it as a bad idea. But if they just want to make it through this quarterly review in the black, or just don’t even care about their companys reputation and just want to squeeze as much money out of a game as possible? They’ll do it, no matter how much harm befalls their reputation.

          • revenent hell

            I agree with you there.

            I more or less think it depends on the game….
            I hate DLC all together but frankly I don’t see it stopping anytime soon so I’d rather take this evil type rather than one that sells me my game ending if you know what I mean….

            Granted SE learned from XIII-2 not to do such things (surprise someone got learned) but they still want to nickel and dime people or all DLC would be free… Its just a means to get more money.

            In most games case the DLC can cost the equivalent or more of the game. While I may be a hypocrite for what I believe is a bad thing in general they make to much money to not want to make DLC and I’d rather they sell of the stuff I could care less about levels, point packs , equipment and
            whatnot rather than game important bits.

            I think its more or less game dependent for me. In this game, yes grinding is long BUT not so long on the easy level you should even need the DLC.

            If a developer plans for their game to be like Agarest War Hard mode from the get go with the idea the DLC would sell more… depending on how much I had to grind…. I’d return it and claim it was broken and I wanted my money back.

          • Göran Isacson

            Mmm, that’s a reasonable standpoint. Some people can do the whole “RARGH THIS GAME HAS DLC I WILL RAGE ON THE INTERNET AND NEVER TOUCH IT EVER” thing and actually MEAN it (the people who rage but then buy anyway I simply ignore whenever they pipe up in the debate…), but I think a lot of people at this point do what you do: take it case by case, game by game. I agree that selling endings and sneaking in important plotpoints in DLC IS skeevier than just selling off big and powerful weapons, but only as long as those big powerful objects aren’t necessary to progress.

            Though I have to admit: at this point I almost always hold off on buying big budget titles at launch day if I hear rumblings of DLC, since they almost always come out with “special” editions one year later that has all the DLC on them… kiinda feels like that’s not what they WANT me to do, but it sure is what my wallet thinks is the best course of action.

          • revenent hell

            I would worry.
            I can already envision myself waiting for the game (with the DLC included) and it not happen… Though im terrible for guessing (or listening for) if a game will get DLC or not….. At this point I just assume any and all game types will get it no matter what type it is…
            One day I have to look up how DLC got started….. That nitwit should be hurt. Really.
            Oh and I can tirade like nobody’s business about DLC….. But it seems so pointless to do so sometimes. Its a moneymaker they don’t want to loose. The most I and I think everyone can do is to try and get them to sell off stuff that isn’t integral to the game/ basically have some form of standards in place for it I suppose. That’s so much more important to me than just ranting about DLC as a whole.

          • Tyler Beale

            I couldn’t even beat CFW Arfoire even with DLC gear…

          • KuroNathan

            I didn’t use the dlc gear but I did use the free dungeon to speed level, it wasn’t an easy fight but totally doable without paying for dlc equips

    • revenent hell

      Are you high?

      The DLC for the game here beyond the free dungeons is mostly extra’s like weapons and point packs… Both of which are hardly necessary to finish the game (and is a small DLC type I can agree with because its not mandatory to have it)….

      Look in to your games and their DLC before you say this stuff.

      Its not like a pertinent story portion was sold of as DLC like other games have done, and unlike most companies crappy DLC story stealing sell em to you later practice all the stuff for this game is NOT mandatory to have (or if it contains story elements its free like all good story holding bits as DLC should be) The optional dungeons don’t even have a minimal baring on the story. Its weapons and point packs: optional to overpower yourself early on stuff.

      So im all aboard to gripe about DLC but in this case you don’t have a standing to complain about it. The DLC is fair for this game.

  • JustThisOne

    Damn, Ghostlight. You guys are one of the more interactive publishers I’ve ever heard of. Admittedly, this is probably easier to manage than a triple A market full of crazy fans, but this is still a lot of effort.

  • DesmaX

    It’s not their fault. Idea Factory has shitty DLC practices, and it would be a problem if they didn’t release those there.

    But anyway, I do believe PC games that want a boost would just get a trainer/save editor for free anyway

    • Tatsuya1221

      Or cheat engine, which is what i do if i feel like boosting my characters for whatever reason.

  • Audie Bakerson

    Rereleases maintaing seperate DLC is terrible.

    Though the real issue here is that they ported a game by CH+IF that as a result has this absurd volume of DLC in the first place (and isn’t very good…) instead of a game people actually wanted beyond “if this sells, they’ll probably port something GOOD to the PC”.

  • revenent hell

    Personally I think if the DLC is available via one device it should be available to all that the game can be played on…… But that’s my humble opinion.
    Unless they wanted to make some folks like myself but hurt and just include it on the PC version for no extra funds. Just to like be nice…. Though the PSN still charges for theirs. Im sure Xbox does to

  • Warboss Aohd

    Workin’ wit da PC community will give them goodwill, which iz far more important den wit Console Gamerz.

    Dis might do ‘em alot o’ good in da long run.

  • bVork

    Don’t sell “booster” DLC. Don’t even offer it for sale. When somebody looks at the game on Steam, they will almost certainly scroll down and notice the volume of DLC. Then they will wonder if the developers have designed the game so that it makes players choose between buying the DLC or doing a lot of tedious and pointless grinding in order to progress. And then, with thoughts of awful implementations of this like Real Racing 3 or Final Fantasy: All the Bravest coursing through their brains, they might think twice about buying it. So, nip this in the bud. Don’t sell that kind of DLC at all, even if it was originally offered on consoles.

    • Lumi

      Actually that’s a fair point. The mere listing of DLC listed on a steam game page is overwhelming… Won’t hurt to combine them but that takes the optionalness away

    • icecoffemix

      I don’t mind the short cut DLC at all if the game is fair but this is what I thought as well. Since there are far too many bad examples it may turn people who are sick of the practice off.

      Even though the game is probably a grindfest anyway.

    • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

      The other way is to stop porting JRPGs if PC gamers can’t understand these kind of DLC. Almost all modern JRPG have these DLC and they should be available for gamers on any platform.

      • icecoffemix

        Do you really blame gamers for being wary after the kind of shits DLC like the on all the bravest and real racing did?

        If they can’t entirely remove it at least communicate it well to their audience, it’s very important these days.

        • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

          These type of DLCs are norm for JRPG. Tales of Graces, Tales of Xillia, all Neptunia games, Toki to Towa, some PS3 Atelier games, Mugen Souls and all Agarest games have optional booster DLCs with XP, gold and item packs.

          • icecoffemix

            All console games, of which PC gamer doesn’t necessarily are. Look at Diablo 3 and how it was despised for putting micro transaction in, and it was arguably (should’ve been) one of the biggest game at the time. Moreso with Agarest since the people who complained can’t also possibly the one who bought the console version of this game years ago.

            Again communication is important from publisher for this.

            Of course they could also follow your stance and just “lol don’t buy it then”. Let’s see how that’d work out for them. ;)

          • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

            Agarest is a console game and all JRPGs are too. Game developer doesn’t care because these game are niche and primary market is Japan and console gamers. Ghostlight is just a publisher of localized version of the game, they can’t do much.

          • Armane

            You do realise that Ghostlight as a publisher have some input on the localized version? Laughing Jackal/Idea Factory didn’t just plonk the complete product on their desk and say “Want to publish this?”

          • Armane

            Doesn’t mean you have to accept it. Look at the reviews for Agarest; a lot of them complain about the tedious amount of grinding in the game. If they eliminated this DLC and rebalanced the game a little it would probably sell better. They could even sell the new content DLC, which they included, because that sort of optional additional content is much more attractive to consumers.

            Anyway, it seems like Agarest’s DLC went unsold, and for good reason. I’m glad people put their foot down and said no. Gives me hope for the future.

          • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

            Yeah it’s “good” that people don’t like it. Maybe next time Ghostlight will think twice before releasing a PC port of JRPG. Maybe PC gamers will not appreciate it.

          • icecoffemix

            Or maybe they could just release JRPG with balanced mechanic. Though grinding has been traditionally a part of JRPG and even WRPG, I think the problem in this game extend more than what it seems… I think I heard that you can’t really grind without the DLC since you can’t revisit past battle and there’s no random battle CMIIW.

            By the way, I dunno what’s your problem with “PC gamers” when they have fair point to worry. Just note that one of the greatest traditional JRPG, Legend of Heroes Trails in the Sky SC (IMO) is going to be released on the west exclusively on steam later.

          • Armane

            TitS SC isn’t exclusively on Steam, it’s still coming to PSP via PSN.

          • icecoffemix

            Really? Didn’t know that. I guess I can use my save data without replaying the first game on steam then (though I probably would just to get the slightly nicer graphic).

          • Armane

            But that’s untrue, this is just the DLC. The game, as far as I’m aware sold a reasonable amount. It was in the top purchases list on Steam for a while at least.

          • icecoffemix

            I like additional content IF it’s actually made after the game went gold, I hate one where it’s designed for cash grab right from the start (aka on-disc DLC).

            I’d rather shortcut DLC like this on a balanced game than those type of DLC. People can choose how they want to play the game, just make it fair to people who don’t want the shortcut.

          • Armane

            But, as far as I’m aware, the additional content in this instance the DLC that was included with the game wasn’t just on-disc DLC originally. It’s difficult in this situation however, as the game already came out and this is a port long after the fact.

            What I’m saying is that people won’t pay for shortcut DLC on PC. As others have commented, if you want to make a PC game easier there are ways to do that without buying nickel-and-diming DLC.

          • icecoffemix

            For this instance I think they really should just release the game with full DLC and add it as option in the game, show their goodwill and gain your fans first since this is their first foray into the very niche PC JRPG fanbase in the west, make worse with how any DLC now is essentially on-disc DLC for this old game so of course people will view it negatively.

            Agree with pc gamer not being receptive with shortcut DLC especially if it’s not an online game, and I guess I’m SOL with the content DLC for Japanese games anyway (regardless whether it’s on PC or not). It’s in their root nowadays, a very sad fact.

          • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

            Assassins Creed 4 have shortcut DLCs and no ones cares. When niche game like Agarest have them it is very bad. I don’t understand.

          • icecoffemix

            Err, you can’t really compare multi million sales like AC4 to this game. Not only that they’re entirely different genre and you can’t really compare the DLC, like, at all.

          • http://jpoplove.eu/ jpoplove

            Why? There are shortcut DLC for AAA $60 title and this is OK? But for small title like Agarest that cost way lower it’s apparently a bad thing.

            ACIV DLC:

            Resources Pack – Increase your Ship’s cargo storage limit to 2500 and obtain 500 additional Metal, wood, cloth, sugar and rum resources.

            Collectibles Pack – This pack will save you time by revealing all of the collectibles locations on your map.

            Activities Pack – This pack will save you time by revealing all of the activity locations on your map.

            Technology Pack – Obtain a technology advantage that removes the requirement to find the 18 Upgrade Plans to be able to buy the higher ship upgrades (gameplay and cosmetic upgrades).

          • icecoffemix

            Agarest way of grinding is very very different to any Assassin’s Creed’s game, they’re vastly vastly different genre that I could not really take you seriously anymore. Sorry.

            Also, who says that all PC Community is OK with those DLC or any kind of DLC? Ever heard Horse Armor?

            Oh and I’m bringing up the sales because the install base for AC series are way way way bigger than Agarest that if you just only look a bit on the other way of course you could find people who are fine with the DLC, doesn’t mean that the entire fans are.

      • TrevHead

        This would only apply if it was impossible to make a profit without nickle and diming which would be BS to suggest.

        There is even room for devs to remove all the crap DLC on PC ports to attract lost sales, just like Diablo 3 port on consoles removed the auction house and manipulative loot drop rates.

      • Aetheus

        Just because something is the norm, doesn’t mean it’s in the right.

        Yes, having obscene amounts of DLC is (very sadly) a norm these days. Not just for console JRPGs, but for PC games as well (prime examples: CoD and BF).

        You can bet your ass that people will bitch about needing to fork over money to buy random little shit that should probably already be part of the game. For fuck’s sake, there is literally an “unlock voices” DLC for Agarest on Steam right now. To unlock the voices that they, you know, recorded for the game anyway.

        DLC should be “additional content”, not “content that we developed ages ago but are putting behind an additional paywall”. I wouldn’t mind if the industry went back to the days where words like “Expansion Pack” were used, and “additional content” meant 5-15 hours of new gameplay material, and not 15 different coloured suits or the ability to turn on sound or whatever it is they put behind paywalls these days.

  • Kumiko Akimoto

    I don’t mind any kind of dlc so just do whatever

  • rurifan

    Dear gamers, do you like to be nickel&dimed after purchasing a full price game? You don’t? Really?

    Seriously though, the only vote that actually matters is the one you place with your wallet. Don’t support the nickel&dime business model in any form. (If you buy the game and ignore the DLC, you’re still telling the publisher that their behavior is acceptable.)

  • Monterossa

    I’m fine with DLCs but this game (and some other games like Neptunia series) have hundreds of DLCs and I’m tired of clicking to download them. So what I want is a DLC bundle.

  • Kamakuma

    This game had Dlc? 0.0 I never knew honestly as im not even past the first generation… *sobs* T.Y

    • fairysun

      Poor Heiji ….:(

  • TrevHead

    Traditional DLC fine, short cut DLC no way, even if I “chose to ignore it” it still makes any traditional progression system worthless, In short I wont buy the game.

    If PC ports could be free of bad DLC I would be willing to buy them even though I wouldn’t touch the console version with a barge pole. I’m sure many other gamers would do the same thing.

  • Arrngrim

    Being a huge RoAW fan who’s imported them all and purchased the NA releases AND the EU releases…I did not go for the PC version. In truth, I was a little surprised by this move. I bought so much, honestly, to try to encourage them to bring over more titles.

    But that’s neither here, nor there concerning the DLC, right? Well, I purchased virtually all of the DLC from the NA versions of RoAW, Zero, AND RoAW2. Yes, that’s crazy. It was like paying for a LE version of a game plus some. I think the only other games to come close to the cost of DLC to these has been FF: Theatrhythyms and DoA:5. Which those have a stupid amount of DLC and the total cost is atrocious.

    In summary, I guess I agree with all the other ragers about the PC DLC and IdeaFactory’s money gouging scheme in regard to these titles. But, in the end, I’ll pay it all in the hopes that we get more “dating-sim-esque” titles in the future. Gotta pay for the crappy ones sometimes if you want the “good ones”.

  • Hector Velar

    For the PC is best for you to sell the full game with no DLCs(specially weapon/armor packs in consoles) possibly the strongest reason why people buys PC games is so that they can mod it. People can mod it and get any item they want at any time without DLC. Instead release expansions with more dungeons or worlds, extra story as DLC, but you probably wont see the support you got on the console for weapon packs in the PC because part of PC gaming includes moding of some sort.

  • Hector Velar

    they are asking for support and I gave my opinion. PC players don’t need weapon packs, they can mod that easily without paying. If they want to add DLC my suggestion is new worlds, extra dungeons and support tools for people to mod their games. Having a moding community could be worth gold if properly used.

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