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A Closer Look At Final Fantasy XIII-2′s Performance In Japan

By Ishaan . December 22, 2011 . 9:00am

Yesterday, we discovered that Final Fantasy XIII-2 sold 524,217 copies on the PlayStation 3 in its first week. That’s about one-third of the original game’s launch sales, which is a cause for concern.

Sales tracker, Media-Create, confirms this, reporting that Final Fantasy XIII-2 on the PlayStation 3 only sold 62.06% of the stock that Square Enix sent out. Doing the math, that tells us Square shipped about 845,000 copies of the game.

Meanwhile, the Xbox 360 version launched at the #48 spot on the sales chart, and sold 10,000 copies, out of the 33,000 (approx.) that Square sent out.

Media-Create provide their own analysis of why they feel Final Fantasy XIII-2’s sales were so low in comparison to the original Final Fantasy XIII. They believe one of the reasons is due to falling interest among women. Female interest dropped from 31.3% (FFXIII) to 22.2% (XIII-2).

malek86
Very concerning indeed. FF10-2 had sold 1.500.000 copie compared to the 2 millions of the original game, so that was an expected drop for a direct sequel (imagining that some FF10 buyers didn’t like the game so wouldn’t buy the sequel).
To sell a third of the original game, probably means that in Japan a lot more people didn’t like FF13.
The falling interest among female gamers might be an issue, but certainly doesn’t justify such a big drop all by itself.

http://www.facebook.com/VirusChris Christopher Nunes
I actually thought they meant “interest in female characters” in general than female players.
Either way I’ve been keeping on eye on this game and I’ve already pre-order the Collector’s Edition with $45 down on it so far. I haven’t beaten FFXIII yet, just finally got to the part we I can freely roam an area and such after the boss battle on a giant airship.
I like what I see and I like to see how the time-travel concepts play out, and Noel is an interesting character to me. I’ve done my research, not so much on the original game, and I’m looking forward to it.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Pedro-Furtado/100001762518457 Pedro Furtado
X sold 2 million copies in Japan alone? Amazing!

http://tristsantithesis.tumblr.com/ Tsunayoshi Sawada
The analysis from that site seems to typically involve female interest in games.
I think the reason is just game quality and brand quality. Perhaps Square Enix ought to spend time figuring out the direction for the series and catering to fan interests? Its been proven that good game quality begets good game sales, so clearly, quality is lacking.
aoihana
Well, it’s clear to me what we have to do to get sales back on track.
Win back the female audience!
1) More Bishies
2) Flowers
3) Sparkles
4) Engaging Romantic Story
Yep, that ought to do it! （￣ー￣）
…
Seriously, I don’t think a decline of 9.1% in the female audience was the leading impact on the sales.
I think that XIII itself played a big role in XIII-2 own success. What I mean is, a lot of people weren’t very fond of the original, so I’m assuming you don’t buy a sequel of something you didn’t like.
But then again, I personally didn’t like XIII, but I’m buying XIII-2. ┐(‘～`；)┌

http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
Sadly, your parody answer there is probably what’s being seriously debated at Squeenix headquarters right this second. Squeenix has an eight year history of responding to any perceived failure or criticism by “fixing” things that aren’t broken, and falling deeper and deeper into soulless gimmicks instead of respect and quality for their IPs. The only bright spot exception to that I can think of is FF14, and that’s if it really is getting improved; I haven’t been keeping close tabs on it.
Your personal case example of not liking FF13 but buying FF13-2 has a certain important difference. You’ve been reading articles, looking at images and watching videos about this game throughout development and the propaganda phase. You have a much better idea of what the game includes than the average consumer. To a lot of people out there, FF13-2 is probably the same crap as FF13, or perhaps even worse depending on what they think of Serah, Noel and what looks like a lack of Lightning (the last one assuming they did like Lightning).
Testsubject909
“Let’s see let’s see… More Bishies. Why yes, I agree. The female demographic cannot resist a hot looking man looking at her silently, it’s scientifically proven to get them wetter then the sprinklers watering my grass!
Hum hum… Flowers, why yes, tons of flowers everywhere! We should make a sakura stage filled with blooming flowers and pink everywhere! Why yes, Pink is the color women loves the most isn’t it?
Ah, sparkles. Of course. We should make our Bishies sparkle. Sparkle like Diamonds I say!
And… what’s this? Engaging Romantic Story? … Engaging… Romance… Story? Buahaha! Oh how funny! Nah, we just need to make them vampires and werewolves, let’s call Stephenie Meyer. That’ll do.”
And so. FFXIII-3 came out and sold like hot pancakes with a depressingly large interest in the female demographic.

Gaara D.Dragon
did anyone bother to point out that rpgs are not doing so great in general lately ?

http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Marquis-Starkey/100000190635952 Alexander Marquis Starkey
Depends on which ones. Plus in Japan JRPGs are more popular so of course they are going to sell.
Testsubject909
That’s just mainly certain western developers having fun bashing an age old genre that survived the test of time.

cj_iwakura
Funny, for Atlus, that would be a huge success.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Max-Lestage/100001999473380 Max Lestage
Seriously, 500k on the first week is a bad thing? I’ll never understand game companies.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Alexander-Marquis-Starkey/100000190635952 Alexander Marquis Starkey
The game sold well, but it sold a lot worse than what Final Fantasy games usually sell, somewhere pass 1 million units. Square shipped around 1 mil, 500K units expecting the majority to sell, they didn’t.

noxian
seriously…do some of you even read the article before posting your “expert opinions”?
i’ll leave the rest of the pontificating to personal opinion but i keep reading you guys claim S-E shipped a million copies, over a million copies; and you claim they failed to sell the majority of what they shipped.
the very article you’re replying to says they sold 62.06% of their shipment and that they only shipped 845000 units.
even if you throw in the 360 numbers, they only shipped 878000 units and sold 534217 units meaing they sold 61% of their total multiplatform stock.
sitting around acting like you know the score in the industry is fine, fans are inclined to do that with whatever subject.
but there’s pretty little excuse for some of you not reading the freaking article you are responding to.

http://twitter.com/JezzSan Jezzy
Was let down by XIII, so can’t help it that I lost my interest too. Maybe I’ll get it when its on discount.
http://www.youtube.com/user/Kamek20xxExtra?feature=mhee Michael Stevens
“They believe one of the reasons is due to falling interest among women.”
Huh? ಠ_ಠ
“Female interest dropped from 31.3% (FFXIII) to 22.2% (XIII-2).”
(._.) Hmm…….IMO, there wasn’t even that many females interested in the first place, and the decrease isn’t even that large, so I don’t think that’s the main issue.
Maybe the low number of sales are because people are THINKING. What I mean is that they aren’t buying the game early on just because it has the Final Fantasy on the title and expected it to be a very good game. Because of the large amount of criticism for both Final Fantasy 13 and 14, I’m not going to be surprised if this is indeed true. This time I believe people are researching more about the game, what the capabilities it holds now, and what it will hold in the future. That’s what I believe.
……I think I explained it right……..
(._.)

cj_iwakura
Well, that’s what happens when you remove a self-assured empowering figure like Lightning and replace her with fanservice bait like Serah and random pretty boy #43153531.

lordryo
That’s exactly how I feel. All of the issues I had with XIII weren’t addressed. Seriously, forcing us to use only 2 characters that I personally don’t even like is the biggest factor in why I’m not too interested in the game. I wanted a sequel with Lightning, I didn’t care about the map or towns…

http://www.facebook.com/KitsuneForTora Misty Dawson
I miss Terra and Celes as my female protagonists ):

PoweredByHentai
*ahem*
There wasn’t enough shotacon going on in XIII-2.
/kidding
SerendipityX
I think you would be surprised at how females love them some Final Fantasy, even if our percentage is low (we’re only in for the bishies anyway -shot-) but FFXIII actually had two strong female leads Lightning and Fang (FINALLY! XD) that are notoriously absent or are only making cameos in FFXIII-2.
I think female interest probably waned b/c they went back to cliche female leads like Serah (she’s not bad but…come SE you spent all the time pushing strong female like Lightning as the poster girl!) Not that Light or Fang weren’t cliche but at least they were a step in the right direction. It’s like Square is going backwards, then forward, then backwards again.
Actually a 9.1% drop in female interest, worries me (probably b/c I’m female and we barely get pandered to in videogames, it’s gotten better over the years though).

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia
That’s why I prefer my main protagonists to be male. At least they are – usually – handled decently enough. Lightning was a good lead, but I feel like Square-Enix won’t be able to replicate that again for awhile. Although, I did like Ashe a lot in FFXII, but I guess she wasn’t the main character (but she sure seemed like it to me).

SerendipityX
Strong female lead in FF was a nice pipe dream though. Ashe? Oh yeah, she was pretty good too but O.O wait wasn’t she a side character? I admit she did like seem like she was lead when she showed up and everyone just started to doing what she said to save Dalmasca.

Testsubject909
And Lightning wasn’t cliche?

SerendipityX
Lightning was/is cliche for all intents and purposes. IMO Still not as mind-numbingly boring as Cloud though and supposedly shes just “Cloud 2.0″. But the fact that Sqeenix tried (even though they still fell short) is all I wanted to see. I never thought they would even bother making a strong female lead/main character.

Alexis Matthews
Your opinion makes a lot of sense, and I wouldn’t be surprised if that was the case as well, but try not to exclude the possibility that the female audience might have a great impact on the sales, because well……I think it’s the female audience too. Here is an example……well…..MUA! XP I wanted FF 13 mainly because of the strong and dependable female cast such as Lighting, Vanille, and Fang. Now…..Lightning won’t appear as much and isn’t the main character, not to mention that Vanille and Fang are gone…….AND you can only have the two characters Serah (who I admit looks awesome, but she’s still not one of my favs based on how she annoyed me in the previous installment. Plus SHE’s the one who is maturing, not already matured, so I don’t think many can look up to her) and some random pretty boy that popped out of nowhere that the fans are sort of forced to get used to. I also love the interations of the FF13 characters, especially:
Lightning and Sazh
Lightning and Hope
Vanille and Fang
Fang and Snow (the most funny lol)
Vanille and Sazh
Now……because Lightning, Vanille, Fang, Hope, and Sazh have much smaller roles, there won’t be much interaction with characters like the previous installment with the exception of maybe a little from Snow and Serah (you know why), DLC Lighting and Serah (you know why), Caius and Noel (former friends), Hope and Serah (just because they seen each other before), and Caius and Lightning (fated rival). The only great interaction you’ll see is Serah and Noel, and once again, it’s kinda forced. That’s it. Nothing else.
That is my opinion. Basically the characters…….I’m still, like you Mike, getting the game. :3

http://twitter.com/InfinityAge11 InfinityAge11
So I’m wondering how this will affect Versus. Would less sales of 13-2 push them to finally finish the game that everyone cares more about or will it only hurt it and they’ll figure something silly like “Oh, well the females are not as interested anymore so we wont bother will Versus much still” instead of the logical conclusion that people wont buy a sequel to an original that they didnt like?
Really though, I was hoping now that they’ve finished this and its out that they’ll finally get to Versus, but now I’m slightly worried.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Pedro-Furtado/100001762518457 Pedro Furtado
Versus is kinda far in to development to be canceled, it’s getting released, don’t think what happened with XIII-2 will even cause a delay.
http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia
Since Versus always seemed to look better to everyone, I doubt it’ll matter. When (…if?) it finally releases, I think Versus will sell quite well. Especially with its gameplay similarities to Kingdom Hearts.

http://twitter.com/ChestnutBowl Chestnut Bowl
You sure it wasn’t a falling interest among MEN with all the teenage romantic drama going on?

http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
Pfft, Serah has a bikini alt costume. Men only care about tits, ass and sex in general, not characters and a story that are actually good. Your argument is invalid. :P

http://www.facebook.com/people/Valtiel-Ikari/1217218156 Valtiel Ikari
so does that mean I’m weird because I like good plots, well developed characters, a bit of romance here and there and to be able to care for the well being of the characters I’m playing with?

ThatBlackGuy
yes that makes you a freak of nature.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Valtiel-Ikari/1217218156 Valtiel Ikari
doens’t matter, actually, that’s a good thing.
Testsubject909
Or maybe you’re pansexual.

SerendipityX
Truer words have never been spoken. >.>

Testsubject909
LIES!
I for one enjoy legs and nice good thighs… None of those anorexic thin thighs though, that’s disturbing. Plus he forgot navels!

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia
I’ve always wished that the romance would just fade away in Final Fantasy. I love the games, but not the romance aspects. That might be why I never actually finished X. And why I liked XII so much, because it seemed to have much less lovey-dovey crap going on.

Testsubject909
Perhaps not have lovey dovey, but not remove romance altogether.
If done right, it can certainly add to the characters. And in a game like, let’s say Final Fantasy 6, where you had such a diverse cast of characters who all had their time on the spotlight and got to be built properly. (Cyan for example, a family man who suffered a great tragedy at the hands of Kefka’s cruelties)
Such romantic relationships can create some great characters. Of course in that game the romantic relations were never the main focus, but they were still clearly present and helped to build the story.

http://twitter.com/Xander_VJ David García Abril
Actually, FFXIII didn’t have that much romance. Serah and Snow’s relationship was not the focus of the story nor in the first line of the plot. It was a secondary factor.
I don’t think it was because of that.
Testsubject909
Might be. (SPOILERS AHEAD)
But hey… would you rather teenage drama… or Rosa and her love with a dark knight who chooses to redeem himself for all his evil and follow a path of righteousness as a paladin.
A prince of a kingdom longing for his lost love with a broken heart wandering the lands as a spoony bard.
A prince of a kingdom head over heel in a crush with a woman whose childish innocence is in some ways untouched despite a tragic loss of her parent and hometown as she spent her entire life thereafter in the presence of magical creatures that are out of this world.
A woman who was manipulated against her will by a corrupt empire that utilized her like a puppet, abusing her otherwordly magical powers that should not exist in this mechanical age as the playboyish ruler of a desert kingdom of refined mechanical advances in due time comes to care for her and fall for her charms.
A debonair treasure hunter and definitely not a thief who roams the world acting in a bon vivant style while secretly holding deep within him the responsibility for the loss of his own lover who suffers from amnesia due to an accident that occured only moments prior to their wedding, coming slowly to terms with one loss as he finds love anew with a woman who herself has suffered much in her time and had come to lose the ability to trust others only to slowly regain it after their fateful meeting.
A childhood friend who wishes nothing more then the love of a hopeless young man who failed in his lifelong dreams only to return one day mentally wounded and delusional as she tries to support him while he himself falls madly in love with a young woman from the slum who happened to be the girlfriend of his now deceased best friend who sacrificed himself to save his life only to watch her die at the hands of his childhood hero, forever damning his childhood friend, a sweet but tomboyish girl into being nothing but rebound if even that.
A strong silent guy gets involved with an oddly cheerful girl who he eventually finds had desires for his rival who left him permanently scarred (not that he gives a damn) and as they adventure on they eventually fall in love, in space. (honestly FF8′s love story is one of those I care less for).
A princess fleeing her kingdom falls under the care of a cheerful thief after a fateful meeting atop one of the castle’s towers on an eventful moment and… and you know what, this is getting too long so I’ma just stop.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Ty-Austin/100002154794093 Ty Austin
IGN posted an article with the same sales numbers, saying that the game did very well.. 0_0? IGN probably should have done a little more research…

OneOkami
A game not selling as much as its predecessor does not necessarily mean it didn’t sell well. Selling over half a million copies in a week is nothing scoff at.

godmars
Unless that game is COD, BF, DQ or FF. With the last tow being especially true in Japan.

OneOkami
Again, though, my point is a number that the number not being relatively high does not imply its not a high number. A million dollars is not as much as 1 billion, but a million dollars is still a lot money.
In the context of copies of a Final Fantasy game selling in a week, maybe its not a lot. But in the context of a game selling copies in a week, that is a lot. You’re assuming the IGN article is in the former context when it makes no claim of being so.

MrGlitters
This is business. Final Fantasy is their flagship series. Of course they have to expect the best out of their internationally known series. If they ever plan to release another FF game, then they better not ruin their flagship name.
“As long as it’s not as bad as FFXIII”
“After FFXIV, I’m going to wait for the reviews first”
That’s not what you want your potential customers to say when they hear a FF game.
Testsubject909
Looks like a long as hell reply is waiting for moderator approval, so in the meantime, let me just say that I’m sorry if it’ll seem weirdly spaced if it appears.
Disqus seems to enjoy messing with that for some reason…

http://www.facebook.com/people/Ty-Austin/100002154794093 Ty Austin
Yeah, for almost any other game, this is a Final Fantasy game though.
Testsubject909
Did you see the sales numbers for FFX and FFX-2?
They’re nearly identical, both selling in the upwards 1.5 millions.
For FFXIII to sell in the millions and for FFXIII-2 to sell under a million.
That IS significant and not something you can scoff at.

OneOkami
@Testsubject909:disqus and @MrGlitters:disqus
You guys are both missing my point. Re-read my reply to godmars. I’m not making a point about how many copies Final Fantasy XIII, X-2, or X sold nor their critical reception. That is actually beside the point and really is a different subject of discussion. I’m making a point about how many copies this PARTICULAR game sold within 7 days.

Testsubject909
Oh don’t worry I got that. They still sold an incredible amount.
But even when you consider that, knowing that this is their flagship title, even if it is just a side adventure, but a side adventure kept within the main numerical line as a direct sequel, the numbers are underwhelming albeit understandable.
Sure, selling half a million copies is impressive. But when it’s a high profile project with what would typically be a triple A game’s budget (despite recycled designs), it’s still quite a low number.Mind you though it has many excuses to aid it, one in particular being the Playstation Vita.

godmars
Just as long as they didn’t try to give the 360 numbers a positive spin.

Testsubject909
That’s Gametrailer’s job.

http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
Most of the big name “video game journalism” sites and publications are wary of giving a truly critical or questioning eye to installments in flagship series of major companies, or even games the company is being very very hot and bothered over. Most of those groups are cowed by fearing the loss of special access privileges if they upset the company even slightly. Saying “the new Final Fantasy sucks” risks Squeenix giving special interviews, screenshot releases, etc to other sites that protected Squeenix’s business interests.
This is why FF14 getting so much unanimously negative criticism was such a big deal. For a major game in a flagship series of a major company to have ALL of those groups giving very negative reviews, it had to be really really bad.

chicken_and_rofls
Source or it didn’t happen.
http://www.siliconera.com Ishaan
In IGN’s defense, Square probably needs them more than IGN need Square. It was probably just a matter of difference in opinion. :)

andref
Seeing as how many buyers of FFXIII returned the game not that long after buying it, selling that much isn’t that bad

Testsubject909
I don’t think that the idea that many buyers returning the game is a positive… Nor does it actually reduce the sales number. Sales numbers don’t care about returns as far as I know.

OneOkami
[Posted in error]
godmars
Only thing I can really think of that they need to do to fix the series: lose the pretentiousness they have in script writing.
“This solitary young woman speaks little of herself – even her true name is a mystery.”
WTF?! Isn’t she just a rookie in Cocoon’s regular security forces?

SerendipityX
I’m sorry by I really love those pretentious descriptions (sometimes), it make boring NPCs, random objects, useless things seem ridiculously interesting until you realize you’ve been contemplating the meaning behind a stray piece of grass.

godmars
Except things like NPCs, random object and useless things were pretty much omitted in FFXIII. Heck, one of my major beefs was that the game had two minions that they literally did nothing with.
Sure, they presented the boobs/glasses chick as evil for menacing Sazh over his kid, but then the next time you see her she’s just an incompetent boob who’s killed out of hand. At the very least she should have been turned like Cid was and made into a boss fight to reduce the number of times you fight, and beat, the guy who was manipulating things. That crap was as annoying as repeatedly beating the Turks and Seifer only to have them walk away.
And really, Cloud had – several bouts of – traumatic amnesia as an excuse, Squall was an emo git who’s head was getting sucked dry by summons while Tidus was a thousand years out of place annoying brat – though not really.
Lightening’s reason for being “mysterious” was that her sister and her sister’s boyfriend called her by her nickname when she was already an established bitch.

Testsubject909
Emo Git?
…
Spoony?
Anyways. I pretty much agree with you on those things. Even if I’m not interested in Cloud, Squall or Tidus, they at least had something interesting about them or rather, about their situation.
One suffering from post-traumatic disorders and delusions, another suffering from a magical source that drained the equivalent of his existence and a third one who basically just wasn’t. (Let’s be honest, it never was his story).
As soon as I saw Lightning, my immediate reaction was “Oh goodness Squeenix. Are you trying to make me believe she’s badass? She’s going to be bland isn’t she? Or some poor amalgamation of copied traits from your more recently popular male characters (Cloud/Squall/Tidus)?
And I was correct, and not a damn was given that day.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Utku-Savaş/571425196 Utku Savaş
Women…

Testsubject909
Squeenix…

Go2hell66
“They believe one of the reasons is due to falling interest among women. Female interest dropped from 31.3% (FFXIII) to 22.2% (XIII-2).”
once again i blame noel…

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia
I actually thought Noel would appeal to the female demographic. And Caius too. And Snow’s revamped appearance. Hmm, guess I was way off in my guessing.

Monsley
I think it all goes down to what “kind” of women they’re referring to.
I’m a woman, and I really don’t care about pretty boys (Noel), mysterious charming guys (Caius) or skinny idols (Serah).
Although I never really LOVED Lightning, it was nice to see (for once) a female protagonist who wasn’t all about showing tits and being hopelessly in love with the hero of the situation. It was actually what I liked most about her, the fact that she wasn’t involved in any soppy love story.

http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
In that case, I highly encourage you to try out the first Parasite Eve, if you’re the type that can handle gameplay and graphics from the PS1 era. Aya in that game was an amazingly strong, smart, mature woman that put her focus on her duty above all else. The beginning even somewhat mocks the notion of a female protagonist being obsessed with soppy love story crap, before quickly jumping into Aya being awesome.

Monsley
Thank you, I’ll check it out! Although I know the game, I’ve actually never played it because it was never released in PAL regions… now I guess it’s time to make a good use of my American PSN account! :D
PoweredByHentai
Regarding Parasite Eve 1 and soppy love story, the game never really went in that direction at all. You had a guy who clearly has an interest in Aya and you have Aya who went along just because something about the opera caught her attention that made her police instinct go nuts.
When all hell broke loose at the opera house, she kicked her escort to get him to get the hell out of there in a complete role-reversal of the genders, even though she was just doing her job as a police officer (off-duty cops are still first-responders to any major emergency).
http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
That was pretty much what I was trying to say. It MOCKS that concept of women only caring about love right out of the gate. :)

Testsubject909
*coughsTerracoughsSamusbeforeotherMcoughsAyaBreabeforethirdbirthdaycoughs*
What? What? I mean… what?
Oh my, it’s getting a bit cold… Maybe I should close the windows.
[edit]
Nevermind about Celes… But at least Celes’ love story was actually touching… I mean *coughcoughcough*

Monsley
Oh, I actually think Celes is one of the best characters in the whole FF series! Terra has her moments too, but somehow I’ve always felt she wasn’t on par with other characters in FFVI.
As for Aya Brea, as I mentioned, I’ve never played Parasite Eve so I wouldn’t really know. (I’m going to fix that soon, though! :D)
I’m ashamed to admit I’m not big on Metroid either, so I won’t say anything about that.
With my comment above, I wasn’t implying that there has NEVER been a decent female character who wasn’t there only for fanservice or to be the hero’s shallow sweetheart or princess to be saved. I’m just saying that, more often than not, women in videogames are very whiny and/or very dependent on men and/or just there to show their tits.
Even with your examples, only two out of twelve (I’m not counting FFXI and all the spin-offs/sequels/whatever because I’m just lazy :P) Final Fantasy titles have a female protagonist (although I’m sure I’m not the only one who felt that Terra and Lightning are pretty much overshadowed by Celes and Fang respectively – but they’re all girls so it doesn’t count!)
But then of course it is also true that secondary characters are often more likable than the lead in the FF series, so… I’m not sure if this all matters lol.
Just to be clear, I’m not complaining about the predominance of males in this media (perhaps just a little, but not here, not now). When I play a videogame, especially a game where you’re not given any kind of dialogue choice, I don’t really try to identify with the main character, so I don’t care if they’re male or female. I just wish there were more characters like Celes and Fang out there. :)
Speaking of Western games, I wish there were more characters (either male or female – epic has no gender) like Morrigan from Dragon Age Origins. I know she’s mean (=hilarious) and all, but she’s just so great! I’m not even that far into the game and I love her to bits already! :D

Gatchaman1
a 10% drop in female buyer interest isnt enough for them to lose 2/3rds of their past sales in the first week. Especially if they intended on easily selling out the million they shipped. Bad word of mouth on XIII and XIV’s lackluster performance tarnished the S-E name brand so that cause a lot of wary buyers who will probably end up getting it later used or when the price significantly drops.

SalomeHarras
*sigh*
I’ve said this before and I’ll say it again: no (competent) manager ever expects to sell out of the initial shipment of a product 100% within the first week of release. Do you know what happens if that occurs? It signifies that there is stronger than expected demand and the wait time between shipping out the 2nd shipment and the sell out date of the first results in lost sales.
I’m not even sure where you’re coming up with these numbers from. According to this site, they shipped out around 800k, which, is a material difference from a million.

Exand
More like falling interest in all fronts, not just the female demographic…
I’m only a few hours into the game, Gundam Extreme VS is too much fun, but the biggest problem I have with XIII-2 is the choice of main characters. It’s supposed to be a sequel, yet it doesn’t carry through and focus on important characters from the first game. How is that good for a sequel even if the original cast was mostly bland?
When you add in an (arguably superior) game in FF Type-0 that came out on a platform that casual gamers in Japan still flock to and the debacle that is FFXIV which continues on the hurt the FF franchise has been getting after the FFXIII bashing, it’s no wonder sales of XIII-2 suffered.
I personally thought FFXIII was ok, loved the battle system, hated most of the bland cast and thought the story was boring with no villians that stood out, but I picked up FFXIII-2 on release because I figured they couldn’t get it even more wrong than they did in XIII. I have a feeling I’m going to regret paying for express shipping if what I’ve seen in the first few hours is any indication… :|
I can safely say I am not going to be buying the next FF game day one, and will simply wait till it gets cheaper. The brand has lost it’s shine with too many missteps over the years. Square should take a few lessons from their other “half”, Enix.

Testsubject909
FFXIII-2 to me smelled like a desperation move right off the bat. As if one of the designers at Square was personally insulted by the reception it received and desperately wanted to make us like his cast of characters.
If they really wanted to make up for FFXIII, they would’ve focused on finishing up FF Versus XIII and then moved on to FFXV and never talk about FFXIII again, try and put it behind them by moving forward from it and build something anew that would overshadow their prior semi-success/semi-failure.

Exand
Sad to say that I can’t disagree with you :|
I’m only about 15 hours into FFXIII-2, but so far it feels like they took the FFXIII game engine and pieced together areas they previously built with the whole time gate element.
That’s not to say they haven’t improved on some of the bad things in FFXIII. But so far XIII-2, I can see a lot of people who hated on XIII piling on it even more when it gets released outside Japan.

Andrew Hsu
It due to the fact that ff13 and 14 were so bad received. Now when you have online streaming, I see a lot of people viewing them – usually 300 viewers each channel. And I even saw the so called “secret” ending. I was so disappointed that it changed my mind about getting FF13-2. And there’s also 3 locked nodes that would probably require DLC. Good job SE.. destroying their own brand. I now look forward in Tales series, they have chance in beating the FF brand now.

http://twitter.com/salarta salarta
I think Hyperdimension Neptunia has a good chance of beating out Squeenix’s current direction.
Before everyone laughs me off the site, note I only said beat out Squeenix’s current direction. Right now, Squeenix is circling the drain with gimmicky, uninspired perverted otaku pandering. They’re degrading video game series and characters that, by tradition and history, should be treated in a far more mature fashion. Things like female characters running around in bikinis and fetish outfits are acceptable for brand new anime-style IPs like Neptunia that try to be almost entirely playful parody. They fit the atmosphere they’ve created for the series, and can be done in a positive, friendly way on brand new characters. For series like Final Fantasy and Parasite Eve, a precedent has been set for them to be treated in a more intellectual, adult manner, with a certain atmosphere, and certain themes and concepts, kept intact.
I also think that Neptunia has an added advantage by trying and heavily promoting a concept that has taken far too long to break out in the industry, turning consoles into characters and console wars into a backdrop for a video game’s story.

Testsubject909
I’m a pervert and I wasn’t interested in Final Fantasy 13 or FF13-2.
I’m not exactly an obsessive-type otaku but I do enjoy anime quite a bit. I don’t go out saying Desu Ka Ne Kawaii!!! and making smiley faces everywhere, but I do enjoy anime nonetheless and lately I’ve been getting into figurines (I’ve got an SMT Great Pascal and a Barong figurine to give you guys an idea and the nendoroid collection that came with the NISA Disgaea 4 special collector’s edition. And the Teddie plushie and Raiho plushie that came from Atlus.) But I found it pretty uninspiring and far from sexually appealing.
And yeah. I do agree that I quite enjoy the setting for Hyperdimension Neptunia. It is a bit tongue in cheek but that’s part of it’s charms…

SilentSchemer
Yea, that’s cute and all. SO wheres my VersusXIII and KH3. *troll face*
http://twitter.com/CPUNoire Noire
Okay i seriously saw this coming a mile away….obviously SE is surprised since they don’t really listen to majority of the fans.

Testsubject909
Makes me hopeful for DmC’s lack of success.
[edit]
Seriously. For DmC? They really should just rebrand it and not associate itself with Devil May Cry. If they did that, the game would stand a better chance…
You hear me Capcom/Ninja Theory? Learn from what happened to Squeenix!
GGear0323
i actually doubt they are surprised. i mean, FFXIII sold 1.5 million copies in the first week and then they only ship 800,000 copies of XIII-2. even if it would have sold out, it would have been low sales by FF standards.

SirRichard
I was going to write up a big spergy post but frankly I can make it short; a lot of people who played XIII didn’t like what they got, and thus aren’t willing to go ahead with Round 2. Even knowing all the things they’ve changed and such, I’m still not going to give XIII-2 a shot because I don’t really like the combat and frankly Serah and the brown-spiky-haired magical teenager du jour don’t quite match up well with Lightning and Sazh as a main cast goes.
I said I was going to make it short and made a paragraph out of it anyway, go me.

http://twitter.com/Xander_VJ David García Abril
What does have Noel’s hair of “spiky”? It’s straight as hell! lol
Agree with pretty much everything else, though, except that I will give the game a chance through a rent.

DDanny
Didn’t play XIII, will be playing this only because of the monster catching. Seriously

pockystix
Play Dragon Quest V o ,o

Testsubject909
Wait for Nobunaga’s Ambition + Pokemon.
SalomeHarras
Dragon Quest V is one of the greatest games ever made, I agree with this statement for those who haven’t played this game yet.

l777l
Maybe it’s slightly too westernized.

pockystix
I don’t think it’s westernized
streamlined and/or dumbed-down fits though

http://www.facebook.com/jake.caro Jake Caro
The multiple endings and made us BS is why I’m not playing.
http://pulse.yahoo.com/_472QBVARRYERRGHATSUGCVCTTA Ian
Hmm maybe they all waiting for drop price (._.) dunno…
Well i’m not finished XIII because the story…..
Crowlevel8
They need to change the Final Fantasy Formula, add different things we haven’t seen in a Final Fantasy. In other words make it a M rated game. :D
♪(┌・。・)┌

SirRichard
So release Versus XIII, essentially?
pockystix
I dunno
the whole “change things for the point of changing things” came off as really one of the big problems with recent FF.
Instead of trying to give new life to their franchise, they’ve been tossing out chunks that work, in place of really rushed new ideas that just don’t work as well as the ones prior. FFXIII and XIV are huge examples of Square trying something new, without really knowing how to work it into their franchise at that point.
Instead of improving the formula they’ve made so well, they’ve just mad e a new formula that is more than half as effective. . .
Really, I don’t see why they don’t try to improve on where they were with IX, and even a little of X (some of it’s gameplay elements worked, not the plot, as that was horrendous). XII was. . . ok, but it really didn’t do much for me, and felt like it was part of a spin-off (which it is; when you think about it), and FXIII just feels half-assed.

Aoshi00
Which is precisely why Lost Odyssey and Last Story (made by Sakaguchi and scored by Uematsu) felt more like Final Fantasy to me in spirit.. Those games really connected w/ me unlike the recent FFs in the last decade, which I only like certain aspects of in each.. and forget the MMOs..
I know a lot of people would say they would wait for price drop or give it a rent.. and as disappointed I was w/ 13, I’m still getting 13-2 on day 1 (2 copies too S-E, I know I would like the LE soundtrack).. I do like the world setting and chars in 13 in retrospect after reading Episode 0, I just felt everything wasn’t explored very well in the game alone, squandering the potential.. which was one reason why so many fans were turned off among other things like all the prominent features lacked from the previous FFs..
Admittedly it’s a bit bad w/ just 2 main chars.. still want to explore more of Cocoon and Grand Pulse.. and if the time traveling aspect is half as fun as Chrono Trigger, I thought that would be intriguing as well..
And I’m not trying to blame everything bad on a single guy.. but from the opinions of so many others who disliked the story/char aspect of X-2 (Charlie’s Angels), 13, or PE 3rd Birthday, maybe Toriyama just needs to stay away from the flagship series?

Solomon_Kano
I’d not like to blame a single person either, but it really does seem like there’s a pattern in games Toriyama’s been involved with.
I stayed away from 3rd Birthday and X-2 from lack of personal interest, but hearing what became of them I’ve really gotta wonder if he’s NOT to blame?

BadenBadenPrinny
It’s probably more of a “too much of the same” scenario. If you look closely, nearly every game from VII to XIII have essentially recycled the same storyline that VI (Especially with VII, if I didn’t know any better, I’d be calling it plagiarism from within the company. At least they made changes to VII and on but damn.) Same with characterization, that also tends to follow a template for just as long if not even longer. I wouldn’t be surprised if FF style ATB is starting to wear thin on the fanbase as a whole on top of that

Di_Elle
Poor sales? Not enough Sazh.
Well, that’s what I’d like to think…
http://twitter.com/Xander_VJ David García Abril
It doesn’t surprise me.
“Final Fantasy XIII” was a big let down that even Japanese gamers, usually more forgiving with this kind of things, felt to be underwhelming. And for way too many reasons.
“Final Fantasy XIV” was an incomplete game, with everything that implies (which is a lot). The fact that it was anounced before FF XIII was even out didn’t help either.
Of course the brand has been damaged, and this is a sign of it. A huge part of the fanbase feels dissapointed and don’t trust the series as much any more.

Aoshi00
I tried to convey that point back then.. but people countered the game sold millions, so it must’ve been a great game loved by the same millions.. and the 2.5 out of 5 star Amazon Jpn average were all pulled down by vocal minority/haters.. I don’t remember people reselling a main FF title back to store that fast.. My first playthru of 13 was actually not a pleasant experience.. after I read Episode 0, I appreciate the story and chars a bit more though.. which was a pity… still, here I am, giving S-E a chance again.. I actually told myself I wouldn’t even get VS13 on day one and would wait for reviews after 13, but I’m a sucker lol… if anything, I think I would still like exploring the environment, time traveling, and the music…

Solomon_Kano
Hold on now, don’t let XIII’s poorness sour Versus for you. While SE of late has been off overall, that doesn’t even look to be a similar experience. Considering it looks like a dark KH, I’d say we should know what to expect there regardless of how XIII/XIII-2/XIV turned out.

Aoshi00
I hear you, the styles are totally different.. frankly I’m not a huge Nomura fan.. and I’m not a KH fan either for its gameplay or story (that’s why I’m not that interested in Type-0).. the trailers seem interesting and I like the modern city aspect (not too thrilled w/ the boy band though) so I’m not like the others really anticipating this game.. I’m not trying to diss it, but I’m not that terribly interested until they show us more, we have only seen very little of it.. and if I get hooked by the eventual trailers chances are I might get it on day 1… that was just a feeling I had (that I got burned time and again) right after I finished the Jpn 13.. right now it has subsided a bit lol.. and I have a feeling I might enjoy 13-2.. giving them the benefit of the doubt :)

Solomon_Kano
Oh? Here’s what I’ll say then: if anything, you should probably have more interest in Type-0 than Versus if you dislike KH’s gameplay. Unless you’ve already played Type-0, then that’s just that lol. Personally, after playing the demos for Type-0, I found it to be less like KH than it looked. There’s a difference that I can’t put my finger on, but Versus looks JUST like KH to me. With a darker setting, of course. So, from what you’ve said, I don’t think you’ll end up enjoying Versus too much but at least you’re giving it a chance.
I’m trying to give them the benefit of the doubt on XIII-2, too. It sounds like they’ve honestly listened to the original’s criticisms and tried to better it, so I’m getting it day one. If it turns out less than stellar, fine, but I’ll always support a company that tries to fix their mistakes — and, even though I enjoyed it a bit, I definitely count XIII as a mistake lol.
Aoshi00
I tried a bit of the Type-0 demo but wasn’t too crazy about the camera the same reason I didn’t like Peacewalker on the PSP.. I have a feeling I might enjoy it a lot more w/ 2 analog sticks, so I might get it on Vita or if they decide to do an HD port later (but I don’t feel like getting a digital copy of such a big game).. I dunno.. I really digged Crisis Core back then since I was familiar w/ the chars established by VII, but I don’t feel anything for these students in uniform w/ fancy (silly?) code names or their Kingdoms’ plight (guess I got burned by Tale of the Last Promise w/ sorta a similar setting), I’m just not big on my PSP in recent years.. it’s really a FF spinoff.. I might play it eventually but not in a terrible hurry..
VS13 just looks good :), if the story and chars are good I would like it, but Nomura’s too pretentious most of the time :) Prince, Princess (Romeo & Juliet?), his boy band retainers, Advent Children slow-mo swordplay, I dunno yet.. the futuristic setting and cars are cool.. and we have no idea when it’s coming out, so I’m not that anxious..
I definitely give S-E credit for giving 13 a 2nd go and fixing their mistake by listening to fan feedback, that was a good start. I agree w/ you on 13. If -2 turns out to be so-so, I think the Before Fragment novel should be good because I liked Episode Zero.. the thing w/ 13 is it has a nice world setting, but it took several medium to fully realize it, like the game, drama CDs, and the novels.. so the game itself felt severely lacking..
BTW, did you get the Collector’s Edtion for Arkham City? I just decide to trade in my regular copy for like $27 and getting the CE for ~$60.. after watching several unboxing videos, I think the artbook, batman statue, DLC,s Gotham City DVD should be worth it.. I just miss the game case holding the game.. but it’s held inside the artbook and not a paper sleeve so it isn’t so bad… actually haven’t finished the game yet lol.. when 13-2 gets here, I would try to play nothing else but that, hope Noel and Serah have a nice time traveling adventure :)
Solomon_Kano
“Prince, Princess (Romeo & Juliet?), his boy band retainers, Advent Children slow-mo swordplay”
That’s the most concise description I’ve seen of the game yet lol. Spot on. Yea, I think I’d probably still be interested in VS even if I wasn’t a fan of KH’s style based just on how it looks.
You bring up my problem with XIII. The biggest issue for me isn’t even the gameplay or the story, but the manner in which the story was told. The presentation of the story was more in the datalog than the game itself, and that’s a BIG no-no. Expecting players to read through this and that to get the most from a story because you didn’t tell it well is just bad practice, so you’re right on. I honestly kept playing for the characters (and I found that kinda tough too lol), so I wouldn’t mind hearing the drama CDs or reading the novels but it’s a shame that it feels like I need to in order to fully grasp this world.
No, I didn’t get AC’s Collector’s Edition but I’d probably have done the same as you if I saw it for $60. I didn’t even realize it came with an artbook. Aw, I’d have waited and got it if I knew. My local Best Buy still has some sitting around. I ended up finishing it in about a week — I got really sucked into it lol. I just bought the Nightwing DLC a few minutes ago, so I’ll be popping it in again soon. There’s a free costume up for DL too!

http://twitter.com/ShinZeta2 Antonio Garcia
I now the reason:
Only two CHARACTERS… And nothing more(Meh monsters).
Crimson_Cloud
Meh, as I thought. Honestly I know a lot of people like myself who just don’t like these characters that Square makes. Something is missing in their depth that I would give a damn about them.
Failing interest among women? Of course, because most of your males suck. I don’t think they would understand even if they played a few Otome games.

Testsubject909
But oddly… males that suck seem pretty popular, at least here in the western portion of the world…
Here’s looking at you, mister I’m-a-’vampire’-that-shines-like-a-diamond-waiting-for-a-finger-up-my-

BadenBadenPrinny
Plus a lot of the FF mains in all of the 3D FFs. Whatever your opinions may be…

Rupee11
I guess this could be the kick up the ass S-E needs, and that’s from a very forgiving fan (who really liked XIII). They’ve let their flagship series stray from what a lot of people would consider ‘essential’ to ‘buy it if you like this sort of thing’. The many spin-offs certainly don’t look like they’ve helped much either.
I suppose if I was the CEO (or whoever’s in charge of pleasing the share-owners) I’d make sure Versus XIII comes out soon (yes, I know it’s far-fetched) and that it’s a damn good quality title (the most important thing, I mean it’s been in development for what, 6 years now?). I’d also carefully consider the western release of Type-0; for such a big game on a little system, I can’t help but feel it’d be a waste to just release it on PSP (a minuscule western market) and perhaps port it to the 3DS as well, or perhaps a slight graphical overhaul for a Vita release. Just an idea is all :P

Testsubject909
I would’ve made sure Versus 13 came out BEFORE 13-2.
People are interested in Versus 13. People are waiting to give Versus 13 it’s chance. Versus 13 is what can make up for 13 in the eyes of quite a few fans as far as I’ve observed.
But then they up and went and made a 13-2, with rather negative memories of 10-2 (at least in the western world, gameplay was fun though), rather then work overtime on a project already underway, they choose to build a sequel game from scratch to, again, try and force feed us how “epicly cool” their new female protagonist is. (Lighting, poor lightning, she tries too hard… Her gunplay reminds me of Yuna, her swordfighting of Cloud/Squall/Tidus, neither of these are helping her, and in term of personality I find her quite dull compared to either Terra or Celes…)
It smells of desperation under certain ways of looking at the game’s existence… But hey, can’t knock it until you try it right? Who knows, the game might be pretty great. (But at the moment I’m taking the route of “Expect it to be crap: Either be smuggly satisfied with self or pleasantly surprised”)
And then there were a few other incidents that certainly didn’t help their popularity in the past year…
SalomeHarras
The Board of Directors are the ones directly held accountable by the shareholders. The Board of Directors then hire the executive officers (CEO, CFO, etc.) who then run the company and are held directly responsible to the Board.
If you were the CEO of Square-Enix, what you SHOULD be focusing on is the disparity between the Dollar/Yen conversion and figuring out how to generate a profit in the Western market despite that. You would probably be lobbying the Japanese Parliament to aggressively deflate the Yen so your goods can be more marketable to the rest of the world.

Rupee11
…well you certainly know far more than me on the matter ^_^”. Nothing makes me shiver like economics discussions…

http://www.facebook.com/Natheren Clif Knight
No surprises here and I can say with confidence most of us knew this was coming. Square Enix is too arrogant and lazy these days to deliver us a real Final Fantasy game. If they would just get their own heads out of each other’s ass and listen to the fans, you know the people who actually buy their games, maybe just maybe they could get things in line. Final Fantasy just hasn’t been the same since IX everything just moved down hill afterwards.

godmars
Yeah, what they were doing with XIII-2 wasn’t listening, it was pandering. I think many “fans” realized this.
Testsubject909
They moved from steampunk to cyberpunk, fine whatever.
But at least build on it and give the same magical sense of wonder here. For one part, too many guns, not enough mages. It’s no longer the magical fantasy setting here, it’s the sci-fi setting here.
I’m almost expecting the magical spells to be nanomachines causing chain reactions in the atmosphere to create magical-like effects or some other sort of technobabble explanation.
Abandon the convoluted plots and aim instead for something that would be more timeless. Create a world with it’s own mythology and rules but don’t turn them into some impossibly cryptic alien language world as that tends to distance people first mainly rather then entice them.
Make an interesting and memorable villain or antagonist (Hojo/Kefka on the villain side for example or Sephiroth on the antagonist side. No Kefka vs Sephy here, they’re not in the same category, by which I mean they’re not the same type of evil. It’s like telling me to compare a potato to a stepladder).
And that’s not even touching the combat system yet. Which, might I add, also requires proper pacing, something that is sorely lacking in FFXIII… I wonder how the pacing is in FFXIII-2. For both Gameplay and Story.
SalomeHarras
“Final Fantasy just hasn’t been the same since IX everything just moved down hill afterwards.”
I just want to assure you that people have been saying this about every successive Final Fantasy since IV. I don’t foresee this changing regardless of what Square-Enix decides to do.

BadenBadenPrinny
Not to mention the ones who have more “spotty” dislikes (for lack of a better way of putting it) in the sense of the flow of dislike. Like myself, I happen to like IV-VI but I see FFT and IX as the only good FF games on the PSX barring the ports. X is my favorite 3D FF, and I can’t really say anything about XII and beyond because I haven’t played them. Though word of mouth do give me a general impression of XIII. As for XII, I’m still willing to try it

thebanditking
I have not heard good things from people playing the Japanese version. Most have said the story is dry/boring, the monster catching a bit pointless and the ending is absolutely horrible (though I did not read exactly why). Currently this game is sitting on my, when the price drops list. Sad really S-E is just not making RPG’s like they use to and FF is my favorite RPG series.

http://twitter.com/FaithlessMr Bruno Silva
I’ve heard nothing but praise from the Japanese gamers who got the game. I guess this only shows us that we shouldn’t be expecting for others to play the game for us, uh? :p

Aoshi00
I hope my copy would get here soon.. I’ve glanced at some reviews on Amazon Jpn and saw the positive ones too, might not be the best RPG ever but still an interesting and entertaining one (since the bar has been set a bit lower now so to speak). But I am purposely not reading anything at all to go into this game fresh, except the trailers we’ve been shown so far..
When I first played FF13, I actually haven’t heard others’ opinions either (except that it was extremely linear and boy was it, it drove me nuts) unlike many others who’ve heard enough bad things about it but went into the game w/ low expectation in turn liking it.. I like to form my like or dislike on my own w/o being influenced by others.. I only read reviews if I have doubt on buying the game or not.. w/ 13-2, I have made up my mind to get it and play it on release day, so I don’t need reviews to stray me into thinking one way or another..

http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Schwarz/100002325567790 Kevin Schwarz
Come on, we knew something like this was going to happen. Retarded-looking characters, monster catching, and on top of that, we know s-e is not delivering intelligent/epic stories since ten years ago. Take for example, Lord of apocalypse, it’s fun if you ignore the story, but just until half of the game, then it turns tedious. Same thing with all their games, it’s the domino effect that happened since a decade ago.

Testsubject909
As I keep saying.
They should’ve stuck to calling it Fabula Nova Crystalis that is. Officially call it a Spin-off or spiritual descendant of the Final Fantasy series, provide them more loose and more opportunity, make the fanbase more forgiving while at the same time still exploiting the Final Fantasy brand name recognition as people would be wetting themselves wondering what this spectacular looking game would be like while also knowing it wouldn’t exactly be Final Fantasy but Final Fantasy inspired.
That would’ve turned Fabula Nova Crystalis into a far more solid franchise without segregating the fanbase and further alienating it’s more loyal fanbase.
but yeah… I’m a broken record at the moment so I’ma shut it.

http://www.facebook.com/people/Kevin-Schwarz/100002325567790 Kevin Schwarz
Excuse me, I didn’t read any of your comments before, but what you say is right. However the main problem here is not, calling it “Final Fantasy (put number here) – (sequel/prequel).” The main problem here is: Square-Enix sucks nuts at making good games. In this case, good final fantasy games. The closest one to be worthy of the tittle “Final fantasy” so far is “FFIV complete collection,” and just to be clear, you know better than me, it was basically because of the after-years, wich was developed for phones. That’s a sad fact. The fabula nova crystalis is another attempt to entice Final fantasy fans into buying crap games. This should enrage fanboys, I know. But it’s a fact, sadly.

Testsubject909
Even then, i wouldn’t really list Final Fantasy 4 Complete here.
The after years didn’t exactly hold the same charm and appeal the original did and in some ways feels a bit tacked on and unnecessary.Seriously, who here asked for a sequel for FF4? Not to say I wouldn’t enjoy it, just that… it felt unnecessary. The world is saved, the game should be Final.

SalomeHarras
For the longest time I have wondered where this misconception was born from. Squaresoft has never produced “intelligent” or “epic” stories in their Final Fantasy series. Historically, the quality of writing in the FF series has been fairly low and they’ve mostly relied on characterization to carry them in terms of narrative. Very few people that I personally know (i.e. around my age, the old people) actually remember what most of the Final Fantasies were about, rather, they remember the characters and other distinct qualities that define Final Fantasy for what it is.

http://twitter.com/FaithlessMr Bruno Silva
Am I the only one who thinks this is being blown out of proportion…? I mean sure, when you compare the sales figures to the first FF XIII, there’s a world of difference. But we need to take into consideration that many things changed ever since. The Final Fantasy brand name has been severely affected, and well, this released alongside the Vita, which didn’t sold as much as expected anyway. It seems it was a common trend, rather than something specific.
Perhaps the global economical crisis is affecting the sales as well? I understand it’s easier to let the hate flow out and start pointing out how SE has been bad lately, and how FF will never be the same, but…how about we give the game a try first?
Which message are we wanting to get across here? That developers shouldn’t try and fix what wasn’t as well received as supposed to? I don’t think they’re to be condemned for at least trying. Cut ‘em off some slack, guys.
inb4 fanboy.

Testsubject909
Japan has it’s many troubles.
Declining birth rate, suicide as the largest cause of death amongst youth, higher unemployment rate, lower wages for newer employees, distressing news pertaining to sexual subjects and the female population of Japan, recent natural disasters, political strife both within and without, an idiot in power who wants to ban creative thinking for mangas, anime and games yet openly sells a book about a guy who puts his private johnson through a paper door and rapes women (Who’re the dumb nuts who voted that Ishihara in power anyways?).
There’s lots to consider here…
But there’s also the fact that FFXIII did pretty much re-divide the fanbase, which was a pretty bad thing since FFXII divided the fanbase as well.
[edit]
And FFXIV didn’t give any of the fans any reason to trust them… And… and I should stop by now.

SalomeHarras
Your last statement is irrelevant because Final Fantasy has been dividing its fanbase since the Super Famicom days. There is no compromise between the Super Famicom camp and the post-SFC camp, and even within the SFC camp, there are massive divides between IV, V, and VI. The only reason why you don’t hear about this as much anymore is because these people are getting up there in age now and have either moved on with their lives, or simply don’t care about this mostly irrelevant topic.
This has always been the case and is nothing new.

Testsubject909
Oh, from personal observations, despite the divide in the past, the fanbase still continued to move forward and purchase the latest Final Fantasy in dear hope.
Final Fantasy 9 for example was heralded as a return to the good old days, and this wasn’t because the old fans who felt divided just stopped purchasing the games either.
It’s the more recent divide that truly caused a greater detriment to Squeenix as they always had a bit of a touch of brilliance or just a hint of the original Final Fantasy charm and fantasy that kept people coming back. But after the 10th one (or because of the 10th one, you decide), things started to go downhill.
11th certainly wasn’t taken well considering it was an MMO and FF12 despite it’s wonderful opening took the brunt of this built-up tension and due to it’s highly contrasting style and it’s semi offline MMO gameplay, it caused this divide to turn into a much vaster and far more obvious canyon.
Then 13 came out and it just broke all hell loose.
So YES, there is something new, mainly in it’s gravity.

SalomeHarras
I have not found that to be the case with my generation that mostly played through the SFC games (or in some cases, earlier, but prior to FF IV, we only had FF I, and we couldn’t really play II or III in its original form). My generation was fiercely divided over the SFC trilogy and did not like the direction that VII took the series. The majority of them stopped with VIII and never even got to IX.
While IX was one of the only FFs intentionally designed to hark back to the “old” days, it didn’t generate the spark that actually existed in the old days. The initial reaction to IX from my generation was positive at first, but then forgettable in retrospect (that’s my opinion as well, I find that IX is one of the most forgettable FFs). You have to remember that people my age are in their 30s now, we have a lot of important things on our plate, and arguing about nostalgia isn’t one of them.
There are a few big, big differences between now and then:
-The internet is far more prominent now, and it’s much easier to hear a wider range of thoughts on things. Consequently, it’s also much easier to be influenced by things you may never have thought of on your own if isolated (for better or for worse). This tends to blow certain things out of proportion.
-Japanese developers, and Square-Enix in particular, are no longer center stage when it comes to game development in the West. Criticism flows a lot more freely now as a result while other games have taken on the “untouchable” mantle that Square-Enix once had (Bioware comes to mind).
That being said, you can see the divides even post-SFC. There is a very large divide between the PS1 generation (VII/VIII/IX) and aside from the possible acceptance of X, this crowd also generally doesn’t accept the post-PS1 era. In the PS2 era, you have again, a sharp divide between X and XII (I’m not counting XI because it ultimately catered to a different demographic), and once again (unsurprisingly), this divide was found again in XIII…
I don’t see this ever changing regardless of what Square-Enix does. It’s simply an unavoidable consequence of designing FF the way they do. Rather than stressing myself out over this (ultimately) pointless tirade, I will simply buy the games I enjoy and continue buying games that I enjoy and nothing more. If those games happen to be FF games, so be it, if not, oh well, it’s not like there isn’t competition.
Testsubject909
You know, sounds like I’m from your generation.
But the area I lived in, most gamers if not all gamers that I knew who did play Final Fantasy from it’s original years did stick with Final Fantasy continuously all the way.
Anyhow, on the matter of increasing divides. One obvious idea is that the amount of people who just can’t deal anymore with the directions that Squeenix is taking with Final Fantasy is naturally increasing.
Start with the divide that began with FF7 (But let’s be honest, they still bought FF7 before they decided they didn’t like it), then the divide with FF8 (same phenomena as the prior one). FF9 probably suffered from people not purchasing it after FF8, but considering how much of the publicity made it look like a return to form, the people who’d feel divided because of prior installment would’ve probably bit into it (thus why I tend to think of said divide of the PS1 era as rather minor in terms of Sales, but definitely present in the social area of gaming).
The slow accumulation of discontent simply erupted thanks to the latest installments of the Final Fantasy series.
And it’s Christmas. Merry Christmas.

SalomeHarras
You are not the only one that thinks this is being blown out of proportion (mostly by people that don’t understand the mechanics of business).
Wait until their next shareholder meeting, review their financial statements, hear what they have to say in their defense (if there are losses) or the reasons for their gains. This is the ONLY THING THAT MATTERS.

Testsubject909
Okay… Squeenix. Can you hear me?
Maybe this is a hint that you should drop Final Fantasy for a moment… well, maybe after versus 13, but really that should’ve come up BEFORE 13-2.
Anyways… Maybe you should stop going for Final Fantasy…
And think about the SaGa series, the Chrono series, give Seiken Densetsu a new go and make it more like the multiplayer-cooperable action adventure RPG, keyword RPG, it used to be, maybe revisit Bahamut Lagoon, or maybe stop dicking around and actually get to work on Kingdom Hearts 3 to save your asses?
Because guess what? You need it.
Solomon_Kano
Reading these comments is almost enough to make me facepalm.
I don’t even disagree with a lot of them, but everyone thinking this game “failing” means Squenix should listen to their particular ideas is just… yea. A lot of these boil down to “I told you. Now only [insert remake, sequel, etc. for old series] can save you from RUIN!”
A lot of people here are only half-assedly assessing the financial implications of this while claiming that remakes and sequels to less financially viable series are the cure. Doesn’t really make sense, folks.

Testsubject909
Sounds like a reply to me.
Considering the legendary reputation of the Chrono series, what makes you think it wouldn’t be financially viable?
If anything, ANYTHING can be made financially viable, it all depends on two things:
Presentation (which honestly is more then just showing a good image, it also involves showing interesting and captivating gameplay)
And publicity. LOTS and LOTS of publicity.
It’s been shown repeatedly that even if your game is absolute crap, if it’s been heavily publicized, it WILL sell.
What CAN hurt you though is when a highly known series draws a lot of ire, it will eventually come falling flat on it’s face as an ever increasing amount of your fanbase and install base will start to grow wearier and wearier while also gain a desire for something to cleanse the palate.
So no. The people who’re suggesting that [insert remake, sequel, etc. for old series or for new IPs] aren’t making senseless claims here. These ARE gold mines they’re sitting on. They could even honestly half ass something and pull something straight out of their ass that’s got the game’s name, is a part of the series but isn’t all that strong a contender but just looks impressive and it’d sell like hot cakes.
But of course, the less effort they put in hiding that half assedness, the more it’ll come biting them back up the ass.

Solomon_Kano
It wasn’t, but your post does indeed fit what I was talking about. As a note, I’m not saying that Chrono, Mana, etc. AREN’T financially viable, but that they’re all LESS financially viable than Final Fantasy. I don’t think that’s even disputable, otherwise Square Enix certainly wouldn’t have let them fade like they have.
“If anything, ANYTHING can be made financially viable, it all depends on two things:Presentation (which honestly is more then just showing a good image, it also involves showing interesting and captivating gameplay)And publicity. LOTS and LOTS of publicity.”
No. I’ll expand beyond games for a moment to give you a non-example: Warner Bros. Green Lantern film. TONS of promotion, lots of good looking vignettes (beyond the poor first trailer), and it STILL was a flop. By the end of its run in theaters and the start of its life on home video WB had BARELY made back its budget. So no, promotion won’t sell ANYTHING, there has to be some inherent appeal that that promotion uses to sell to.
As another note, I’m not saying that sequels to old series aren’t going to make money, but that they aren’t the ONLY thing that can save SE. As you say, there’s a certain amount of nostalgia and loyalty to the series that can be banked upon to bring it revenue, but expecting that to have the same pull as FF? As an example, regardless of Chrono’s reputation, old fans alone would not be able to cover the RESOURCES a console sequel/remake would cost Square Enix even if they did cover the game’s budget. Taking up resources for a big grand sequel or remake in a series that they aren’t sure would still be a hit could cost them more in the long run if it fails.
It’s the reason why, despite how everyone is supposedly “dying” for it, Square Enix won’t do a FF7 remake. Why? Not because the audience isn’t there, but because after the cost of remaking a game on that scale they also have to take into account how much of their staff would be required for a project like that. Do you tie up someone who could be directing a game in a new IP or a sequel? Do you leave it to a lesser talent and hope for the best? Beyond internal stuff, how do you reconcile the game to a fragmented fanbase created by years of spin-offs, prequels, and sequels?
There are too many factors to call anything of its nature a guaranteed hit, which is why these suggestions remain LESS viable than a sequel to something like FF or DQ. Again, I’m not saying that they aren’t viable at all, simply less viable.
Solomon_Kano
Damn… that was a long response lol.
But yea, while doing a half-assed sequel to one of those franchises to sell off of name value would get them some good money in the short run, in the long run that’s how we get to where they are right now with FF. They’d end up damaging several brands if they took that route. You have some standing with what you’re suggesting but it’s a dilemma, for sure.

Monsley
Wow, all these people saying they won’t buy FFXIII-2 because they hated FFXIII…
Am I the only one who liked FFXIII a lot and is afraid of a major disappointment from this one? I feel so lonely!

Solomon_Kano
You’re not the only one, but you wouldn’t know it from these comments lol.
SalomeHarras
Once something becomes popular it’s “hip” to hate on it, even if you’re only reason for hating on it is because it became popular. This is completely illogical, and frankly, retarded, but people tend to do this regardless of the medium. I don’t know, whatever allows them to sleep at night I guess.
Not that FF XIII isn’t without its flaws, but I personally don’t think it’s nearly as bad as people make it out to be, and would rank it comfortably in the middle of the FF series.
I’m looking forward to seeing what XIII-2 brings to the table.

Testsubject909
FFXIII is hated not because it’s hip or popular to hate it.
If that’s what you truly believe, then you need to get off your high throne and start living with us peasants and get a good grasp of what’s going on in the gaming kingdom.
[edit]
It’s not to say people will just be like sheeps. But that the large flow of hatred wasn’t just a case of popularity, it was simply a slow accumulation of stressor that culminated to the blowout that happened with two successive heavily divisive addition to the Final Fantasy series.

PrinceHeir
im curious how the females would be interested in Versus XIII?? :P

Ravage27
Me thinks Noctis will be very very popular with the ladies :p
But seriously, SE needs to get Versus out asap.

http://bmgf.bulbagarden.net/members/55321.html FinalArcadia
Oh, that Noctis… XD
SerendipityX
I’m sorry but I’m getting Sasuke vibes from Noctis. Which is both a good and very, very, very bad thing. :x

Levin_Nova
Wouldn’t it be more accurate to compare how X-2 did in correlation with X instead of just XIII? It’s not a main numbered title, which means you shouldn’t expect it live up to one, regardless of whether or not it is a better game.
http://www.facebook.com/people/Altin-Bujupaj/1157167838 Altin Bujupaj
I read all those comments about remaking old gold and so on. I dont like FF the way it goes, now, dont mind me but SE…
MAKE A NEW VALKYRIE PROFILE !!! >___<

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