DmC Devil May Cry May Have Failed To Attract Casual Fans In Japan

By Ishaan . January 25, 2013 . 11:30am

DmC Devil May Cry was released in Japan last week and sold 110,429 copies on the PlayStation 3. The Xbox 360 version of the game wasn’t featured in the top-20 sales ranking, but sales tracker, Media Create, report that it sold approximately 6,000 copies.

 

Media Create add that the PlayStation 3 version of the game sold through 61.82% of its shipment while the Xbox 360 version sold through 60.10%.

 

Launch sales of the game are significantly lower than those of Devil May Cry 4, which was released in 2008 in Japan. That game sold 205,390 copies on the PS3 at launch, and an additional 40,023 copies on the Xbox 360.

 

Media Create surmise that a number of fans were estranged as the character design and game are different from those of previous Devil May Cry games. However, it wasn’t core series fans that sat DmC out—instead, Media Create theorize that the game failed to attract the more casual fans.

 

What leads them to this theory is that release week pre-order sales for the PlayStation 3 version of DmC Devil May Cry and Devil May Cry 4 were about the same. They suspect that core Devil May Cry fans opted to pick the game up while casual fans didn’t.

 

It’s an interesting theory because the goal of DmC Devil May Cry appears to have been exactly the opposite—to attract more fans to the franchise than the previous game did. Of course, Japan is a small part of the game’s market, but Eurogamer report that even in the U.K., DmC Devil May Cry’s sales were about one-third of DMC4’s at launch.

 

Without hard worldwide figures or an official statement from Capcom, it’s hard to put together an accurate picture of whether or not they consider DmC Devil May Cry a success, since factors like differences in the development budget, manpower, marketing expenses and long-term sales all play a role in defining success. That said, what we do know is that the game isn’t doing as well as its predecessor in at least two territories.

 


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  • Tales_of_Master

    …………………Does this mean we can have DMC5 now ?

    • Steven Heryanto

      lets hope so… capcom didn’t stop original rockman when they released X series.

      • gold163

        yeah, but then they stopped rockman altogether.

      • Ryudo9

        That was when Capcom was still awesome tho

    • ShawnOtakuSomething

      All my yeses to that.

    • Farid Belkacemi

      Nope ! :p

    • Tien Ron

      What DMC5?

    • Blazkn

      I hope so, but well… that’s Capcom we’re talking about, I’m not really expecting smart decisions from them.

      • revivegamesrise23

        i don’t think we won’t get DMc5 for another 2 years because Capcom doesn’t want to give the rights to kamiya. Plus, kamiya is now working for Platinum games and i heard they hate each other. idk man, the chances of Dmc5 coming out are 50/50. i say it should come out in 2014 or summer 2015. i would hate to wait that long for an aged Dante that’s still badass. :( but then again when you do think about it, it’s worth the long ass wait for the Original Dante coming back to the franchise.

        • Locklear93

          Kamiya might not do it even if he could. There’s no way I can find the interview, but he was once asked if he wanted to make another DMC, and said something to the effect of Capcom having ruined it (and that was back with DMC4).

          Edit: Capcom doesn’t seem to be the best place for creative types with strong personalities. Kamiya’s remarks, Keiji Inafune’s comments about how the business end has no interest in hearing from the creative end in terms of decision making, etc…

          • miyamoto

            well said, thanks.

          • DemonKingAsura

            Tell that last part to CyberConnect2, I guess.

          • LaserVision

            You’re probably right. I remember listening to the Bionic Commando Podcast and Ben Judd (former Capcom employee) told a story of how some higher-ups told him that they’d hope he’d fail. However anyone feels about the reboot and the popular XBL/PSN game, that is just a terrible thing to say.

          • Nemesis_Dawn

            The interview was around the time of DMC4, but what he had actually said was that he was pretty hurt and offended by Capcom giving DMC 2 to someone else, when he had a lot of ideas for stuff he wanted to do for the sequel. He said that Capcom didn’t even tell him they were making a DMC 2 and that he found out about it from, I believe, reading a magazine preview of it.

        • MaxCLE

          I’d much rather Platinum Games make the next DMC game.

        • Setsu Oh

          just wait after bayonetta, plat games do not sell much, cap might ask them once the dust is settled on the DmC fiasco and bayo2 out

    • Yesfir

      If no one actually buys this DmC then that’s totally not going to happen.

      • Eilanzer

        then for me…i prefer that don´t happen at all and is buried in a place with the rest of dignity that is still left for the franchise.

        • Guest

          Huh, the hivemind mentality of the comment section on this site is pretty telling…

      • Nemesis_Dawn

        Then let it die. DMC5 or nothing.

        • O.O

          Aye!

        • http://www.facebook.com/people/Jerome-M-Cabahug/1837397773 Jerome M. Cabahug

          why not sell the title to other game company like Konami. I’m sure it will be in good hands rather letting it die and if they think it’s impossible for them to save it. (I know it’s way too far fetch).

    • Nemesis_Dawn

      I can only imagine how happy the fanbase would be if they announced it, especially if they contracted Platinum to do it. I have this trailer in my head that starts off with what looks like Donte, from behind, then he turns around. It’s the real Dante with a short black wig on, he says, “Not in a million years” and throws the wig off, takes that stupid coat with the Union Jack on it to reveal his red coat under it, shoot the wig and coat, and says something like, “You were expecting someone else?”

      “Devil May Cry 5″ logo appears on the screen. Crowd goes wild.

      A teaser like that would immediately be met with fanbase-wide love, especially if the Platinum logo appeared after DMC5. They wouldn’t even have to show a single second of gameplay, we’d all know it would be great whenever they finished it. A trailer like that would be like a giant, “We’re really sorry, fanbase,” from Capcom. I know I’d accept that apology.

      The only thing that could possibly make me go crazier with happiness was if afterwards, there’s gunfire next to Dante’s head, he whips out his guns, and we see Bayonetta show up, and it’s actually announced as DMC X Bayonetta. But that will probably, never ever happen.

      • Asura

        I hated DmC, but what you propose just sounds godawful. Completely godawful.

      • Nicholas Gatewood

        I would be pissed if they did that, as I enjoy DmC and have been a DmC fan since the original on PS2. You whiners are killing me, just so much bitching from the “fanbase” it’s unreal. You guys are way worse than Silent Hill’s “fanbase” of complainers, geez. At least they had a few good reasons to complain about, DmC’s Metacritic average of 86 is proof enough that they’re continuing the franchise’s general high level of quality. It sure beats the much-more-boring DmC4, I say, it took some real balls to make such extreme changes to the DmC style the way they did. I’d say giving DmC to Ninja Theory is the best decision Capcom’s made this past generation, I really don’t think Platinum could’ve done a better job.

        But hey, I’m probably gonna be flamed for having a positive opinion about a great game just because a character looks a bit different. Whatever.

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        …Wow. How massively entitled do you have to be to think Capcom owes you people an apology for experimenting with an IP they legally own?

        I’m not going to wast time repeating things that have already been repeated to you more than enough times. Leave, and don’t come back. I’m really bloody tired of having to get things back on track every time you and some other users derail a thread. Especially a thread like this where people were discussing thoughtfully until you guys dropped in with your selfish, entitled “opinions” that ignore the bigger picture. I’ve had it. You’re banned.

        • Valtiel Ikari

          isn’t it banning him a bit excesive? hi is just refering on how he felt offended by the product not living to the series standart, and probably Tameem deliberating in throwing sh¡t at the fanbase, wich in all do honesty, Capcom does owe an apology for letting him get away with it.

          Also, he is refering to a game, he is not insulting other users, wich takes me to finding it unffair considering you mods let pro-DmC users offend and calling names to people that don’t like it, or jst find it average, while not insulting anyone (hell, even seeing mods join in the bashing).

          I get it, you are tired of people not liking the game and going off track, but it’s really unfair and excesive banning him for contemplating an option considering to future of the franchise using the numbers on the article to consider that the game might flop (wich if you think about it, it not that off track)

        • Di_Elle

          “Entitled” should not be in a customer’s vocabulary. Capcom makes products for its customers, NOT for itself.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            And they made this game for a different group of consumers; why can’t the other group understand that? If they don’t like what’s being produced, they have the full freedom to not buy it.

          • Di_Elle

            They also have the full freedom to express their dislike. When you take an established series and repackage it for a different target audience, you should expect some well-deserved backlash. Especially when it is being made in lieu of an expected sequel.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Just because they were expecting something and didn’t get it, they’re justified in trashing the company and the makers? That‘s precisely what I meant by being “entitled”; because they’re acting like they were supposed to get it, or were promised and then denied. That’s not the same as expressing dissatisfaction of the product itself. At least Capcom has the excuse of not being satisfied with the previous game’s sales. Many other series also branched out to try a different formula; this isn’t anything new in the industry. Depending on whether or not they’re satisfied with the results, Capcom will decide what to do next.

          • Di_Elle

            Yes, they are justified. They can express themselves however they would like, within the guidelines of their particular forum, of course. They’re the consumers. Capcom depends on THEM. I’m not saying it’s the most eloquent or constructive way to discuss the game, but consumers SHOULD be entitled; there is very little reason not to be.

            Capcom’s number one priority is your money. You can defend them to hell and back, but you won’t get anything out of it. On the other hand, by withholding your money and complaining, you have at least a slight chance that the next product will meet your expectations. That last bit – the complaining – IS significant because it can mean the difference between “Devil May Cry is unpopular” and “this particular Devil May Cry is unpopular.”

          • Locklear93

            They did, I do, and I haven’t. The thing is, regardless of for whom DmC was made, it was made in lieu of DMC 5. Capcom effectively said, “The audience of DMC 5 isn’t worth our development dollars right now; let’s try for a new audience.” When you do that with an IP that has previously been targeted at one group of consumers, it’s to be expected that that group is going to be pissed off. Take your favorite IP, and give it a Twilight spin to try and catch that audience. Would you honestly not think less of the company holding the IP?

            I realize the Twilight comparison is going a bit far, but I don’t consider this Dante a whole lot more tasteful.

            I’ll absolutely agree with you that the complaints should be more civil, but there should absolutely be complaints. As someone else said, they’re what let Capcom know that the IP is of interest, and that the reboot is not.

            In any event, Capcom took a gamble on spurning part of one audience hoping to gain a new one and retain a chunk of the old. Right now it looks like that gamble was a bad bet, and I’m glad–I don’t want DmC to continue in lieu of DMC. That’s the extent of my Capcom trashing: That I want this decision to hurt them enough to go back to DMC.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            If people want to take a more formal approach in not supporting the new series, they’re honestly free to. Not that I can imagine what the final outcome could be, but hey, Capcom took a gamble, and so can they. Although I presume toppling a decision based on sales would take a bigger force to counteract it, whatever that’s gonna be.

          • Locklear93

            I’d agree that reversing a decision based on sales would be difficult, but in this case, it looks like their decision was a mistake, based on the information at our disposal so far. I’m not talking about unhappy DMC fans; I mean the soft sales we’ve seen so far. Assuming these sales are relatively similar in the USA, if Capcom felt the DMC4 market was too small, they’re fairly likely to feel the DmC market is worse. Pragmatism works both ways. It’s possible of course that they’ll simply decide Devil May Cry isn’t an IP they want to pursue right now, but that would largely mean abdicating the “stylish action” market they more or less invented to Platinum and others.

        • 715

          Has the word “entitled” change its meaning because I’m pretty sure it doesn’t mean “having a legitimate complaint”

          No really I have yet to seen a single, A SINGLE pro-DMC post that doesn’t boil down to “fans are just bitching because Dante has black hair”

          And yet I have seen long well though out anti-DMC post, like the story is just “They Live” how it takes itself far to serous and seems to come off as something a 14 year thinks is cool.

          Ex being all the F-bombs, dropping them doesn’t make you an adult but its something a teen thinks.

          Or how Dante is kinda an asshole. You’re suppose to agree with what he believes and think he’s cool right? But he’s not.

          What he said isn’t “entitle” but a good PR move. After RE6 massive bombing they need to fix their relationship with its fanbase, bring back old Dante is a good move, maybe not how he would do it but yeah.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            “No really I have yet to seen a single, A SINGLE pro-DMC post that doesn’t boil down to “fans are just bitching because Dante has black hair””

            Exaggerations, or you’re not looking. And I don’t believe the back-and-forths surrounding that meme. I’ve seen a varied mix of criticism from people who aren’t praising the game high yet aren’t acting like it’s the worst thing to happen.

            And if crude language and story unoriginality are criteria so obviously deserving of this sort of backlash, I expect that happening more often in the industry. Singling out a game for what is a common trait in many others doesn’t help the reasoning.

          • 715

            True I have seem a number of good reviews, but DMC form what I’ve seem and heard its a 6/10 not a 10/10 like reviews are giving it.

            And by that I mean I’m not a DMC fan but I’ve been followering bits of the stories about it and such. Hell I went I got DMC4 just about the new one interest me into playing them.

            But the thing is Ninja Theory or the Press did NOT sell this game well.

            Tameemi ideal of pricking a game is basiclly “the old Dante and games suck mine is better and there fans are lossers”. And Capcom is wondering why its bombing?

            And I think it’s good crude language and story unoriginality is being bashed now, it means we as a gamer community is growing up. We know “Dark and Edgie” storylines is not the same as good storylines.

            Also I don’t know about you but I’m really tried of grimdark downer endings in what seems like every other game.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            I’m tired of the topic at this point, but I appreciate your formal reply, so let me just wrap up.

            To be absolutely blunt: Yes, I also think there were many missteps surrounding the game. I was among the people who was turned off by the Succubus fight dialogue in the demo, and I even thought of getting the game after a price cut because of it. (But I still got it anyway because the debacle was so big that my curiosity won over my reservation, and the pre-order DLCs kinda balanced out the cost.) And then, when I finally get around to finishing the game, I found that that scene was pretty much the worst language the game has to offer (i.e: the rest of the game isn’t especially worse than what popular media generally contains), which really made me question about Capcom’s advertising of it (possibly overselling the “edginess”). While I can’t say whether New Dante is designed around Punk culture or not, I can see how crude he can still come off as to many. That said, crude language itself is admittedly a problem long overdue with modern games; so I don’t want to blame the game for a problem shared with many others, but I’ll at least say that it did go above and beyond the commonly-seen limits.

            Honestly, I don’t like that either, but the combat is pretty solid, so the overall impression balanced out to “above-average”. And that’s why I kept repeating “Capcom will bear the consequences”; because even though they are indeed suffering the aftermath, I didn’t want to be explicitly negative about a game that is okay at worst.

            I don’t know about others, but for me, this hasn’t been a pleasant game to follow, because it was pretty much a cycle of disrespect between the company and the consumers. At this point, I just want to take the good parts it has to offer and just forget the rest.

          • http://queensblade.net/index.php/characters/cattleya gulabjamuns

            Oh man, why weren’t Castlevania fans more like this when Konami stabbed the series with Lord of Darkness?

    • FFmax

      Holy crap this.

  • Muffum

    Something I’m curious about: Do we know the sell-through percentage for DMC4 at launch? I’d assume it’s higher than DmC’s, but I’m curious as to what exactly it was.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      DMC4 first-week sales and sell-through:

      PS3 – 205,390 (68.56%)
      360 – 40,023 (73.20%)

      DmC first-week sales and sell-through:

      PS3 – 110,429 (61.82%)
      360 – 6,000 approx. (60.10%)

  • dahuuuundge

    Watch Capcom turn this into the fan’s fault for not showing interest in Devil May Cry series and kill it for good.

    • Göran Isacson

      This is my nightmares in a nutshell. You are a bad man for giving shape to them instead of letting me sit here in comfortable denial and repeat that eevveeerythiiing is aaalright….

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        Some months back, I mentioned a couple of times that, while Capcom (as the IP owner) and Ninja Theory (as the developer chosen by them) have the freedom to do whatever they want, they’ll have to bear whatever consequences that follow from the new direction, good or bad. I guess we’ll see the aftermath now.

        • Göran Isacson

          Indeed. Question though- you guys usually post exact sales from Media Create in Japan and general “top ten” numbers from the US, but does the “UK” numbers represent all of Europe, or is it JUST the UK because that’s the only place you can get exact sales numbers from?

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Just UK, and no sales figures are provided. Just the order of the games on the chart.

        • AnimusVox

          I don’t know if I read it correctly but didn’t Capcom tell NT to change Dante’s look? Or was that what’s-his-face’s idea?

          On a side note: Did you recently become a mod or have you been one for awhile? (This isn’t a foreshadowing of an insult lol)

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Since June 2012.

          • AnimusVox

            Oh ok I thought I saw a regular commenter with that same or very similar recently and was going to congratulate them. But congrats to you too either way lol xD

          • Quinton Cunningham

            You’re correct. Capcom forced the change

          • gold163

            Capcom specifically told NT to be different from the rest of DMC, and to not worry about the backlash because Capcom wanted to widen the appeal of the series.

            This is not a problem in of itself, but when both Capcom and Ninja Theory tried to perpetuate the controversy for the sake of media attention it blew up in their face. However, because of the controversy, Capcom still has a failsafe since they can always blame the fans who did not respond well to change, rather than the game itself or its atrocious marketing. Which they probably will, and the rest of the industry and its consumers will let them get away with it.

          • Setsu Oh

            well, not much we can do about that can we…..
            harsh reality….

          • gold163

            Exactly, which is why the fans are frustrated. Because for as much progress as the fans make with Capcom (Monster Hunter, Phoenix Wright), the higher-ups just don’t care, and they’re the ones who are in control. Hell, even the people who work at Capcom are frustrated at their powerlessness. Look at Ono.

            It has to stop. I’m convinced that the only way to get through to Capcom is to call them out on every bad thing they do. What is the most disappointing to me about DmC is that none of the reviews I’ve read seem to actually criticize the game. They only have good things to say about it. They aren’t bothered by the crass, mediocre and flat script, they aren’t bothered by the business model of selling you the rest of the story (which ironically goes against the whole “don’t be controlled by corporations” theme of the game), and they aren’t bothered by the numerous PR fiascos that the game went through.

            Quite frankly most of the game reviewers (and many DmC fans as well) admitted that they didn’t really play past titles, or that they flat-out disliked them, but that DMC fans should give DmC a chance because it “lives up to fan expectations”. A lot of the media coverage I’m seeing on this game seems to be a bit unprofessional and a little too overwhelmingly positive for a game that has received so much fan backlash. Maybe I’m just being paranoid but I wouldn’t be surprised if someone was pulling strings, and that bothers the hell out of me. I also don’t like how any criticism of the game itself is pretty much dismissed on the grounds that DMC fans who dislike the game are being immature or stubborn.

          • Z3

            Try watching Angryjoe’s review of DMC

          • Locklear93

            Let them blame me for not responding well to change. I’ll simply respond that they failed to gauge what their customers wanted. It’s not a customer’s responsibility to decide they want whatever is being sold, unconditionally–it’s a business’ responsibility to bring to market products that people want. There clearly is a market for DmC–it’s just not nearly as big as Capcom thought, and that’s on them, not the market.

          • gold163

            Agreed, but the problem with this is that Capcom holds the reins on the property. If they want to claim that there isn’t enough fan interest in DMC and therefore they will not be making any more, there’s not much we can do about it.

            What we CAN do is take our money elsewhere, and support studios that put out games that we DO want.

          • Locklear93

            They’ve got the reins on DMC, yes, and while it’d be a shame if there were no DMC 5, as you suggest, we can take our money elsewhere. I don’t know about you, but there are so many fun games made each year, I doubt I’d be able to mourn long.

    • Kaihedgie

      They would be right on this one, considering how everyone has acted for the past two years

    • Herok♞

      Well I would say for once that statement would be accurate seeing as just mentioning the positives will get you down voted like crazy and saying negatives will earn you praise, Heck someone even made petition on the white house site to get the game removed. At this point all people are either fine with the game after playing it or Hate it for any number of reasons, I would genuinely love to see someone neutral to the game at this point

  • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

    Guys, if you’re going to come in here to post snarky comments and call people rude names, don’t. You’ll get banned right away. If you want to actually discuss the game’s performance and what could have gone wrong without being immature, we’re all for that.

    • Kaihedgie

      Thank you

    • Showmeyomoves

      If you’re referring to the “FUCK YOU!” comment I saw earlier, I think that was a reference to DmC’s infamous dialogue sequence:

      http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9cbMIKiGjy8

      If you’re referring to something else: don’t mind me!

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        I got that. Still doesn’t make it any more relevant, especially when some people complained heavily about Dante’s crude language to begin with.

  • ShawnOtakuSomething

    Capcom is going to flip the tables on the fan saying* See! you no like what you see? well no more DMC* (ノಠ益ಠ)ノ彡┻━┻ Casual, the game did well in other places

  • Curan_Altea

    It’s a shame really. The game was just unlocked on Steam last night and it’s really good (my opinion). Not classic DMC, but there’s 4 games that hold up just fine for when I get that craving.

    • ShawnOtakuSomething

      Shockingly I liked it to, however I did ignore somethings

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      I compared it to my DMC3 experience in the past, and understood why I like it more: It has a lot more moves for aerial combat. I didn’t have complaints about 3, but I just like air-juggling, I guess.

      • margherita mastropaolo

        it has a lot less move than dmc had,only three guns as oppsed to the five of dmc3,the same amount of swords and just one style instead of the six of dmc3
        and each weapon has less moves in spite of the game being made years after dmc3

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          Let me be final: If you’re desparate to hear somebody say “the game sucked”, I won’t be that person. I like extensive aerial combat, which DMC3 didn’t give me.

          • sd28

            dood wtf he was only correcting you for saying it had more moves

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            As I just said clearly, DmC has a lot more options for aerial combat than DMC3. I’ve checked the movelists on wikis (because 3 doesn’t tell me); Devil Arms and Guns in 3 had a few more moves, but you can only take a total of 4 weapons into the field; in DmC, you can take all 8, so there’s not a lot of difference in available moves at any given time in the field, by the end of either game.

            The reason I replied that way to him is because of how he’s been behaving on the thread previously. I know it’s harsh, but it was hard to give some benefit of doubt to someone consistently being negative on the thread.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            umh , your point is that DMC3 have difficult aerial combat and hard to stay long in the air right ? DmC is easy to do that ,so that why you like DmC more , right ?

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Yes. It doesn’t mean that I don’t appreciate the mechanics in 3; just that I find DmC more to my liking. However many more moves 3 has to offer is irrelevant in this case.

    • Setsu Oh

      i only played the demo and listened to a good chunk of the classic dmc players (i played the games but got bored too fast to really experience their love for the gameplay) opinions and have to say that it definitely is a game i ll buy( when it will get down to under 20 bucks though) mainly because i don t care much about complicated fighting mechanics out of fighting games and that is the main complain classic dmc fans have against it: restriction(the hardest difficulty modes only restraint the number of lives etc…) contrary to complexity. i guess the game was made for casuals like cap said . and i am one: i tried getting an ss rating in the hardest demo mode and got bored. ^^

      its funny how cap wanted more money by driving more casual sales than fan ones, got the VERY vocal fans driving away casuals and got less money. 4million is very good. being a glutton isn t.

  • Minos

    The only surprice here is that some people find these numbers surprising.

    • Adol

      Is surprising because the game is really good, and the japanese are well know for focus on the mechanics not in how the character looks, but maybe that is not true

      • Juan Baker

        That is why I think they didn’t buy it. The mechanics precisely. The differences in mechanics between DMC and DmC are like the differences in Mechanics between Street Fighter and Mortal Kombat.

        One takes practice and time investment to learn how to play, while the other is veiled with an illusion of depth to make people who dont want to be bothered with learning the game, feel like they’re actually getting better at it.

        If you don’t want to take my word for it, There’s an interview on Siliconera era with NT’s combat director. Look at what he says about “Taking some of the magic the pros were able to create”.

        This is what happens when you strip a system down to it’s guts and then rebuild it to make every capable without a need to learn it.

        Other than that, pssh, the Japanese will put you on a cross about changing the visual style of something they like. Aesthetics are actually still important to them. Over here we throw out the importance of a human’s enjoyment and preference of visualization for the sake of argument and being on a side.

        Sometimes I wonder if blind gamers know if they like a game by the way it feels, smells, and tastes.

        Donte prolly wears like Burberry Brit cologne.

    • sd28

      agreed the whole thing just seems to me incredibly average with the worse boss battles ive seen in a game since drunk t rex actually the drunk t rex was better

  • Tre W

    Well, when this new game basically goes against that which Kobayashi said attracted Japanese females in the first place, it’s understandable why sales aren’t that high there.

    Kobayashi said that the main reason DMC4 was such a hit in Japan was because of the pretty boys (Dante and Nero) and less “gross” things like blood and gore were taken away, in order to sway more female players. This game basically is the antithesis of that direction, and likely scared those females right on back to Sengoku BASARA and the like.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      This could very well be part of the reason. One particular retailer has made similar comments as well.

    • Göran Isacson

      … Huh. despite the new female character (Kyre) being incredibly superfluous and generally much less interesting than ANY previous female character in the franchise?

      Then again, if pretty boys was the reason I guess that makes sense. But was DMC4 really that much less bloody and gory than previous games? I know there was no sequence of Dante cutting himself out of a giant whale, but Nero got himself impaled with gusto and he DID once shove a sword through a plantwoman while revving his sword-engine… doesn’t strike me as that much less bloody.

      • Tre W

        Even if guys and girls did cut and impaled, you’ll notice that DMC4 was much less bloodier than DMC3. Even the demons were overall less “uglier” in DMC4, as well.

        DMC4 and Sengoku BASARA (both being series that Kobayashi was/is in charge of) share a lot of the ethics and aesthetics. So it’s little wonder that female Japanese fans liked both series.

        • Göran Isacson

          Mmm, true now that I think about it. DMC4′s demons were a lot more smoother and less “alien” or “Chtulhu”-esque, if that makes any sense? Creatures were a lot more humanoid.

          Hearing that he’s also the guy behind Sengoku Basara, now THAT gives me faith the guy knows what kinda fanservice the ladies of Japan like. Egad is that series ever manservicetastic.

          • Setsu Oh

            of japan and anywhere else i guess, that does correspond to why huge jacquesman plays wolverine and not someone more like the original character(i m thinking about the enforcer of ‘leverage’ for example. among others) but that might be just me.. also, the choice of robat for twilight….

          • Göran Isacson

            Yeah, but I’d still say there’s a difference between “Hugh Jackman” handsome and Sengoku Basara-style handsome. I mean… they hired freaking GACKT to be Oda Nobunaga in the live-action adaptation. GACKT for heavens sake!

            Also, yes- the world in DMC4 IS much brighter and open than DMC3 and it’s dark tower and eerie, skeletal and generally inhuman enemies. DMC4 may have swordfishes and burning revolver dogs, but in comparison to bloodgoyles, translucent starfishes, fallen angels with stomach-faces and DMC3′s eerie sand-cannon fodder, DMC4 still came out a lot less scary.

          • Setsu Oh

            well gackt is (STILL! that guy doesnt age!) the jp huge jaqman and ryan gosling, so i rest my case :d ^^.

            the only thing that sengoku basara is lacking is Hyde, the jp Depp. ^^

          • Göran Isacson

            … So in Japan, Gackt is considered as MASCULINELY handsome as Hugh Jackman? Because that’s been my driving point there, that Hugh Jackman may make the ladies swoon, but he does so by being muscular, sporting stubble, a square jaw, imposing voice being the epitome of Hollywoods image of a “handsome manly man”, whereas Johnny Depp is more the soft, sly, trickster with a much more “feminine” look. He’s the “bandit of night” to Hugh Jackmans “hero of the day”, so to speak.

            So to reiterate- are you saying that Gackt is REALLY the “handsome manly man” in Japan? Because if so… man, was I ever not expecting that. And what must this Hyde look like…

      • Setsu Oh

        yeah but from what i have seen of dmc4, the world looks cleaner and nicer, not as dark as the previous collections of environments

    • Tee Niitris

      Interesting. This makes it sound like this could have been counteracted by shoehorning sexy females into DmC to compensate for the ratio of male-female gamers in the Japan and US-Euro regions.

      Seriously though, Kobayashi does make sense. Little aesthetic choices like that can be the difference between appealing to certain crowds.

    • Richard N

      So the female market is what’s making this huge difference, huh? That demographic is getting bigger and bigger these days. So why is it I still can’t find a girl who plays Dark Souls.

      • puchinri

        In person? Maybe you’re going to the wrong game stores~.
        (You should come to a couple of the gamestops here. All the luck.)

        • Richard N

          WHERE DO YOU LIVE!?!1!?1!11?1!!1

          Strangely I have found girls who played Dungeon and Dragons which I think is like 5 levels beyond Dark Souls.

          • puchinri

            Oh, yeah, I know quite a few of them too (and I’m always more surprised to meet anyone that plays DnD more than anyone that plays Dark Souls). But I definitely know more female gamers (that are/will play Dark Souls) than more DnD players. >u<

            Also, cons! If you go to a con like Fanime, plenty of ladies that play DnD and Dark Souls. Jackpot, right?

  • shion16

    We live in a world where most of high-selling games have a number after their names.
    And casual gamers just dont want to be the guineas pigs of new experiments.
    Thats the reason masterpieces like Vanquish didn’t get the attention they deserved.

    • Locklear93

      Well, that and Sega publishing it. Sega hasn’t launched a successful new IP in… how long?

      • TheRealMalek

        4 year i would say which is not THAT much…

      • shion16

        Last one i remember was Valkyria chronicles

        • Setsu Oh

          that risky idea was sega??
          woa. no wonder they were digging their own grave with licensed games on the other hand!

        • TheRealMalek

          Hatsune miku was after valkyria (even if it’s not “new” it was the first one as a videogame)

          • Locklear93

            It’s also not a new IP. Miku was a license from Crypton, and well before any of the Project Diva games, it was hugely popular. By “launch a successful new IP,” I mean take something that simply didn’t exist before, and make it successful from the ground up. They had a massive head start with Hatsune Miku.

  • Valtiel Ikari

    Tameems many mistakes in handling it’s promotion and toned down dificulty, a promising story that is performed mediocrely, underwhelming boss battles and unatractive characters where factors I think, in my own opinion, are hurting this game sales.

  • Yvonne Tsang

    Somehow, I don’t think casual fans in Japan are into this kinda thing. I thought Capcom was trying to target the western audience as opposed to the Japanese audience with DmC, anyway. Though hearing that it didn’t do so hot in UK isn’t reassuring either.

    • Minos

      In Japan, Casuals play Ninja Gaiden with the feet.

    • Setsu Oh

      to me dmc wasn t made with a target in mind.
      it just had what a small jp team thought ‘cool’ and foreign.
      i guess it had ripple effects in other jp minds, and young westerners just ‘got’ the very childish (watch the cerberus intro in dmc3. i think i stopped playing half an hour after that) main character.

  • zferolie

    I see this a lot with Games not made in Japan. They don’t tend to sell as well in Japan. The Metroid Prime series is a perfect example of this. Those game sold poorly in Japan, despite being highly praised by the press.

    I think Japan as a biased against Non-japanese made/produced games.

    • Tre W

      Maybe in a lot of cases, but not in every case. Donkey Kong Country? Overall, Japan loved that series of games just as much as their western counterparts. Returns itself has sold more than a half million copies. And all of the games in the DKC series were produced by non-Japanese devs.

      • Setsu Oh

        yeah but retro studios is american and rare is brittish. europe and japan, culture wise seem closer to me than usa and jp.

        • Göran Isacson

          Take it from a European, we’re really not.

          What I DO think helped in the case of DKC, was that

          A:
          DKC was a colorful platform series with a lovable animal mascot, and children all over the world and Japan in particular eat that stuff up, whereas
          B:
          Metroid was a dark and moody series that I don’t recall if it was ever even popular to begin with in Japan, which got a make-over into a genre that was NOT very popular for consoles at the time and, according to what I recall, not popular at all in Japan at the time. So there was a LOT of obstacles as far as Metroid Prime was concerned that the Donkey Kong franchise never had to worry about.

      • Farid Belkacemi

        DKCR was still a 2D game in the end whereas Metroid Prime was a totally different experience. Big difference.

    • Setsu Oh

      i don t think so.
      it is more about a specific sub culture trait.
      and i think Mprime as a saga happened before the callof duty ‘success’ in japan. i mean, fpses at that time ….i strongly doubt were popular in japan.

    • sd28

      the opposite of this can be considered true also so what is your point

  • FFmax

    I really hope they don’t kill this series. But then again look what happened to Breath of Fire.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      breath of fire IV will forever me in my heart.

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        Beat it on PC years back, and bought it on PSN last year. I should get back to it at some point.

      • Adol

        I really like the five entries, all the series was really great even with the changes in Dragon Quarter

    • kupomogli

      Remember when everyone said give the Breath of Fire series to a good developer who will do something with it. Like Square? Well. I’d rather not see another Breath of Fire game than see what Square would do to it now. :P.

      Capcom might someday bring the series back to life. And when they do, let’s hope don’t westernize it.

      • FFmax

        Didn’t they already kind of reboot the series with Dragon Quarter and it was also poorly received by fans? It’s the only Breath of Fire game I don’t own.

        • kupomogli

          They didn’t really reboot the series. The Breath of Fire series has always been like the Final Fantasy series. Each game in the series is a brand new series with recurring characters.

          Some people may argue that the games lead into one another such as recurring characters whether they’re playable or not, and even story references like the first game being referenced in Breath of Fire 3(which is the only possibility as there are no other characters from previous games referenced and perhaps a Ryu and Nina in the past did help Bleu save the world.) There’s just too much to argue with that it’s not the same world. You could in sense say that Ryu and Nina were different characters but in each case where you see a character from the previous game, none of them know who you are. How would you forget a princess from Wyndia unless there is more than one Wyndia? The only person who doesn’t age is Bleu/Deis, but the other characters would be dead if it were a next generation Ryu and Nina.

          You’re right about Dragon Quarter being extremely different than the rest of the games though. It’s more of a dungeon crawler with a somewhat tactical style battle system. The storyline is also completely different. It’s a very good game though, and the only reason it was poorly received was for the very reason above. It was extremely different.

          The game can be beaten without restarting, although if you want to make it easier, play a decent ways in to where you can level up a few levels with party exp and then restart the game and level your characters so they’re on a higher level. If you attempt to finish the game without restarting, don’t use your dragon form except when absolutely necessary, meaning bosses only.

          • Göran Isacson

            Upvoted for sticking up for Dragon Quarter. I loved that bleak, depressing little downer, and still get sad when people badmouth it… even if I sort of understand WHY they don’t like it.

          • FFmax

            Huh, I really have to try it then, I always felt a bit intimidated to play it because I read about it’s complex battle system, difficulty spikes and getting penalized for saving.

        • Setsu Oh

          the thing with DQuarter is i don t think i was the only one not willing to be buried underground for a full old fashioned rpg -40h minimum?-. the thing with DmC is it is very varied. unfortunately that wasn t what was needed. they seem to have overlooked the complexity of the gameplay and by doing that, alienated the fans.

          i rememeber how much i LOVED onimusha3 (the gameplay) and tried the previous game and couldnt play it because it used the ps1RE Dpad mechanics and not the stick.

          change one thing change everything.

        • Locklear93

          It’s the only Breath of Fire game I DO own–because it assured that I wouldn’t bother with the series anymore. <_<

        • sd28

          whats a dragon quarter all i know is that im waiting for breath of fire 5

          • FFmax

            Dragon Quarter is Breath of Fire 5(just with a fancier title) and it came out like 10 years ago, Unfortunately I think Capcom is done with this series now. They didn’t even bother to feature any of the characters in any of their crossover games either.

      • puchinri

        Well, if Square left it in the hands of someone like Asano (was he the produced or director of BD?), I wouldn’t be worried. But then you’d have to wonder what they would do with it.

    • M’iau M’iaut

      It took a leap of faith with a drastic recreation of its concept and a lot of folks who only knew the pastel story and manga art acted a lot like folks in here. Yet, there is a more than limited segment of the fans who not only greatly appreciated Dragon Quarter, but would put it as a top tier of all time game.

      • Juan Baker

        Well the thing about it is, BFDQ did not live up to expectations as a core game. It played more like Vagrant Story(which is a game I set as one of the best), but as a BOF game that was not what was expected nor Wanted.

        I was able to tolerate BFDQ because of my experience with VS, but I too was sorely disappointed that it was a Breath of Fire style game. It just WASN’T.

        The concept art, and the visuals in the game were some of my favorites but the actual design was flawed by repetition of bland locales and incessant dungeon crawling.

        A problem VS story fixed by having a sort of “over world” with the city and forest, changing the scenery from a constant sight of gray and brown bricks and dark caves.

        There are fans of everything but when you get people to expect a certain thing and you deliver something that falls well below that, or in complete opposite of it, it’s not, and should not be expected of them to just entertain it because of the mere fact that it was made.

        That was never a sentiment back in the day, and that should never become a sentiment now. There’s no need of preference or individual bias if every just feels that nothin discomforts and everything is fair just because it’s there.

        This also doesn’t mean that a change is something to hated, but change for change sake IS. I’m an artist(character/graphic/concept) so I’m never going to agree something or someone should just change because it’s been there for a while.

        Artistic Change requires Purpose, and Sentiment. Not the need to smite another artist or make a mockery of their work.

        And alot of this is politics. Say a new producer wants to make a game, but the only way they’ll let him make it is to producer a sequel in a series. Lets say it’s a traditional RPG.

        Well lets say he doesn’t particularly like RPGs, so he decideds to make it a hybrid Action RPG, but really there will be more action than RPG elements with just stats as a backdrop.

        The fans are presented the game and dislike what they see. It is a change of form and look of the series they hold dear. Is there something wrong with the fact they dont like that art change?

        No, it’s just too bad that the producer had to be placed in a situation where he had to decide between putting his own artistic vision forward and keeping the series true to its roots.

        If the new version of that game doesnt sell well its probably going to look bad on him because,

        1. He changed the series and was unsuccessful in having it received.
        2. It’ll be even harder for him to propose to his boss to let him produce something entirely new as he wanted to do to start with.

        Business over Artistic Vision, Profits over Technical Purity.

        • M’iau M’iaut

          But the ‘true to it’s roots’ argument only breeds the worst kind of stagnation. One is not honor-bound or duty bound to handle a product the same way that has been done before. For fans to think a company is somehow obligated to produce a product that only they like is quite damn selfish. Folks go out of business that way just as they can by taking risks. In the case of DmC, which I suspect this is getting back to, the company in question was quite up front on why they felt the time and place for a reboot was now. In their mind it wasn’t just change for change sake. That’s information a company is in no way obligated to share, but in this case they did.

  • Göran Isacson

    On the one hand I’m not that surprised that it’s not selling like hotcakes, as this IS a far more west-oriented game in it’s choice of tropes and graphical design. On the other hand, is 60 % necessarily a BAD sell-through? It’s not ideal, true, but it looks like they purposefully sold it in small amounts as well.

    • Locklear93

      Bear in mind that sell-through is a percent of amount shipped, and Capcom likely adjusted that amount shipped based on pre-orders and hype. Maintaining 60% is less impressive if you cut your shipped quantities to avoid manufacturing too many. I tend to find percent sell-through to be misleading for that reason.

      • Göran Isacson

        Mmm, true. I’m also no sure if Capcom has to buy back unsold stock, or if that’s just something stores force developers to do here in Europe… but if they have, buying back 40 % is probably gonna eat right into the profits made from the 60 % sold.

        • Setsu Oh

          it is way too early to think bout that isn t it? march and its montain of games is still pretty far..

          • Göran Isacson

            True, like I say in another comment you at the very least have to wait until the games a month old until you can say if it’s a success or not. Still, no developer/publisher wants to deal with buyback- it’s a nasty situation all around.

  • Setsu Oh

    cap makes laugh. first they decide to throw out a 4million copies perfectly fine very simple fastfood brew, and then decide to cook it ‘better’ by employing a chef whom of course takes more time (ninja theory ‘s games sell in the long run and have more substance than the original dmc games hence the ‘chef’ allegory)…..

    they already said they are reducing outsourced project so expect a dmc5 rather than than a sequel to this game.

    i m a ninja theory fan and although it was a dream match for me, cap and nin plus dmc, i have to say i ll be GLAD when nin leave this ‘fastfood parlor’. the clients are NOT into what nin does. when someone want a burger, don t give them gourmet ’2 and a half stars’ food. i wanted emodante i got what i call ‘random dante’ and i wonder if there are a bunch of darker grittier content scraped because cap got scared of dmc fans.

    stay away from established (simple) brands, nint. not good for your potential.

    • Göran Isacson

      Question- when you say emodante, what do you mean? That you would have preferred the original design Ninja Theory released, or that the game overall had dealt with darker themes?

      • http://www.twitch.tv/jpnags Jason Naglic

        Pretty sure he means nin should stick to their own original IP(s)

        • Setsu Oh

          exactly.

      • M’iau M’iaut

        Wasn’t one of the pitchfork claims during development that DmCs Dante was an emo character and not the raging ‘bada*s’ of before? Which normally led to crickets chirping when folks were reminded that even DMC1 Dante was quite emo?

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          From what I’ve seen, I can’t find any major trait in new Dante that could be considered “emo”. If anything, he’s just indifferent and crude.

          • Kaihedgie

            People just generalize the color black as emo

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Hm… He’s not really wearing black though. His clothes look dirty, but not black. If anything, Vergil wears more black than he does.

          • Kaihedgie

            It’s the hair. As much as people are quick to deny it, it really is, their complaints really do stem from that shade. Set his hair as white at the beginning of the game what you get is DMC3 Dante with a change of clothes

          • Setsu Oh

            i think NT made a good point by putting the white wig in the game and then the skin available: the new dante looks bad with it. it doesn t fit his face and attitude. i find him more like one of those kids from ‘SKINS’ with some more years than classic dante. hence why that haircut of his (same as the singer of ‘foals’ in the first season of SKINS ep 10) fits him so well.

          • Setsu Oh

            it is more than a color :d it s like THE guy who looks the more out of place in a disneyland -get it? depressingly sad looking vs the joy of that place^^-

          • Setsu Oh

            emo dante was that first design they scrapped when cap backtracked thnks to the fans.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Oh, right. That one.

        • Göran Isacson

          … Yyyes, but I don’t quite understand what that has to do with my question?

          • M’iau M’iaut

            Not your question, just supporting the notion that the original post was difficult to understand. Which I will now plead guilty of as well.

          • Göran Isacson

            Ah, gotcha. All mistakes cleared up then :)

        • Setsu Oh

          i guess emodante seemed like a cutter and classic dante more like a bratty gothic style loving teenager.

      • Setsu Oh

        both: through the first ‘emodante’ nint design, i saw a very plausible possibility for dmc to go WAY darker (i dunno , i think like… manhunt, or something). i think along the re-design, cap asked them not to go that dark too. the featus scene might be a survivor of the redesign.

        • Göran Isacson

          Ah, gotcha.

          Truth be told, I was one of the people who rejected the first design. There is such a thing as going RIDICULOUSLY dark, and the first Dante design just seemed like it crossed far into “Crawling in my Skin” territory. It just felt… artificial, I think is the word. As if someone had taken everything they thought was “dark” and “edgy” and then just threw it in a blender without the slightest care for how it all fit together. It looked more like “My Immortal” to me than “Manhunt”.

          Of course, “Manhunt” isn’t a bad goal to aim for, and I could have dug that angle… but I just never got the feeling that NT were that serious or that capable of going dark. Everything about the initial designs and the stuff Tameem was saying just felt like they were going dark just because they could rather than because they had a plan, and it soured me immensely on the project.

          • Setsu Oh

            I love the crawling in my skin ref ^^.
            i guess we ll never know if they could have pulled off a manhunt flavored dmc( pinch or table spoon or glass).^^

            i think the only thing you can do with dmc is going dark.
            everything is set for it. now.
            remember the half baked enslaved? the guy behind it went and worked(or CREATED?) the last of us. what if someone high in DmC’s team is frustrated because of cap’s shackles and goes somewhere to make a faintly dmc like dark and gritty game?

          • Göran Isacson

            Ha ha, I suppose we will have to agree to disagree :) I saw another comment you made where you state your dislike of the sequence in DMC3 where Dante gets Cerberus, and I loved EVERYTHING about that sequence. The dialogue between Angus and Dante in DMC4? My favorite moment in the entire game. And I suppose that telling you that my favorite movie for a BIG part of my childhood and teenage years was “The Mask” is not going to be any surprise.

            I LOVE cartoony over-the-top exaggarations. I love games that aren’t ashamed of doing something silly, but also revelling in said sillyness and poke fun at the egos of its main characters, deflating them every now and then. DMC liked doing that to Dante, but I see so LITTLE of that these days in videogames. You either have the rare case of grimdark done well, like in Last of Us and The Walking dead, and I don’t mind these games. They’re often intelligent stories that really suck you in.

            OR. Or you have games like God of War and SO many FPS-games that are just bland, silly and DUMB “dark”. Everyone growls all the time, there’s death and tragedy everywhere, but there’s just so MUCH of it all the time that nobody CARES. There’s nothing to care ABOUT, nothing to get attached to, or even something to laugh at.

            So in my perspective, if I have to pick between two stories and both are pretty much equally as silly when you really think about them, I’m always going to go for the story that KNOWS it’s silly and at least tries to have fun. DMC was a franchise that knew how to have fun, and on the whole I’m not really getting that vibe from this DmC (on mission 16 so far). Also the scriptwriter from Enslaved wasn’t around for this game and it shows in the scripts quality. If they had kept going dark and serious with this game I’m afraid it would have gone into “Crawling” territory. You need to be a GOOD writer to write a good dark story. I don’t think the current NT team are good ENOUGH writers to do the kind of game you were hoping for.

          • Setsu Oh

            well we don t really disagree much, i just see those ‘overthetop’ games as not for me. far from hating them i do rather play the last of us than a lot of other kinds of games.

            call it the difference between 24 and Homeland or expandables and die hard ??? i m glad the vg world has evolved that way of course, making some awesome maxpayne3 atmosphere(not the gun fest, the whole feelings of the main char thing rather) but i still think about people like you who don t get what they like much anymore and i blame the crisis for it. even harder in japan, it makes making those games not that much possible anymore. well there is still platinum games, and the bayonetta 2 problem illustrated well what i was talking about earlier: there is no much more budget for those games.

            i share ur opinion on grunting fpses though, i LOVED soldier of fortune 2 and couldn’t finish modernwarfare3′s demo: i physically wanted to throw up at that shallow mess.

            well…i take DmC for what i took DMC for: i m just more interested in that version because of the acting i guess(i love that face of his, half open mouth when dante says ‘then GO.’ to the girl in the demo; his eyes in that shot slightly excited by the coming fight…lovely), superb art direction …. ….. …. that is kind of it.

            i get ur opinion, u know i fell in love with ‘under the skin’, a game overshadowed by the mars attack like ‘slaughter every human’ or something, (like my fav capcom game of its decade, shadow of rome got by god of war).

            i guess there is some style to under the skin (or ‘the last guy’) that caught my interest and by comparison classic DMC didnt. i guess because it didnt take itself seriously, i didnt either……

            that must be why i am more into movies like ‘the hangover’ than ‘scary movie’…

          • Göran Isacson

            I will agree that DmC has FANTASTIC… what do you even call it? Acting? Facial modelling? Facial acting? It’s something Ninja Theory is very good at, and I think that the small, subtle facial ticks that Dante and others sometime sports really save some of the cutscenes from being quite bland- script isn’t always, shall we say, on par with what one has come to expect from them. But still, they do know how to milk the most from BODY language and facial expression, that I truly admit. And yes, Platinum games are pretty much my “go to” people to deliver EXACTLY the kind of whimsy I like. But as you say- the crisis strikes hard, and for some reason it seems like it’s the mediocre stuff that lasts the longest, rather than the truly excellent- whether it’s excellent drama, or excellent fun.

            Man, I HAVE wanted to try “Under the skin” but I see so many different reviews saying it’s either “so bad it’s good” or just “plain bad” or “cult classic” that it’s hard to figure out which is which. Can’t say I’ve heard about “Shadow of Rome” though- is it like God of War, only more focused on Roman mythology rather than Greek mythology?

          • Setsu Oh

            Goodness gracious dont get me started on SoRome i ll lay a novel.
            you should try it on the sole fact that it should be dirt chip now.

            it has nothing to do with the glorified final fight that god of war is.

            there are two characters: an ex centurion who became a gladiator to get closer to his father framed for the death of Julius Cesar, and a frail nephew of Cesar who INFILTRATES politicians’ estates to know whom actually killed Cesar.

            failure to be ‘not seen’ often results in one hit deaths, the gladiator, can take more hits, can ask the crowd for food, weapons, has to survive the games -not that far from the ‘american gladiator’ tv broadcast for some, far more deadly and oh so much more gory though- and emerge a victor.

            think MGS for one half, a very good hacknslash game with a heavy character for the second.

            now, i dont think you ll enjoy it much because it is really serious and grave even. like the main char sees his mother impaled in front of him(no spoil, beginning of the game).

            u never know, u might like it though, i have to say that because it didn t sell too well, we might never see the end of the story(it is a slight hint and an out of place couple of characters that make the answer pretty obvious, but i would like official confirmation) it has though a pretty satisfying ending…

            one last thing, out of all the things i loved in that game like the art direction, the originality in a well known subject……the characters….the violence….one thing remains over the rest: the world. i really felt like i was in those big villas of rich roman families, with death lurking behind every corner (guards^^) . i think games have lost that level of immersion. DmC is no exception. fun but forgettable immersion wise.
            Shadow of Rome was the best gladiator game, still is, and its infiltration part is unforgettable. to me that is.

          • Göran Isacson

            I think I may pick it up if I ever come across it in some bargain bin now, if only because the phrase “glorified final fight” is a pretty damn good description of God of War. I AM usually a fan of games that mixes genres too, so that one half is stealth and the other action is no obstacle for me!

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      in English please??!?!?!

    • Settsuo

      What is this??

    • Minos

      I think he says DMC is gourmet food and Devil May Cry is fastfood.

      That is why Devil May Cry sold better.

      • Setsu Oh

        yeah, like there are a LOT of mcdonalds and very few 2 and a half stars(that title doesnt exist. it is to describe nint who is good but not quite yet as good as a 3stars restaurant:they have originalit and style, not yet quite there story wise although their characters are quite likeable) gourmet food restaurants

  • Cameron Alt

    I will wait until the end of the fiscal year, then I’ll decide weather or not it “failed”.

    • Göran Isacson

      A mostly sound argument, though I wonder… how long DO you have to wait until you declare something a definitive “failure” or not these days? I recall seeing someone in some interview somewhere say that things move MUCH faster in the videogame business than in say, movies or books. Films and books can apparently go through bad box office or first week sales and still be considered successes at the end of the day, but in the VG industry you pretty much have to nail at LEAST the first month or everyone will abandon ship. I’m not sure what the ACTUAL case is, but that’s the impression I’ve been getting.

      • Locklear93

        You’ve got the right general idea. For the most part, with obvious exceptions, games don’t have “long tails.” A bad launch is fairly likely to mean bad overall sales.

  • Settsuo

    In my opinion it’s not that bad, but it certainly isn’t all that good. It’s an average game feeding off of the hype of the Devil May Cry name.

    I think what went wrong is that they we’re pushing for something that didn’t need a reboot in the first place. The original Dante was just fine and they should have stuck with it. Hopefully they get their heads on straight and get what ever incarnation of Devil May Cry right next time.

  • Nicolas Vasquez

    i think a lot of the DMC fanbase was too invested in the classic dante(myself included) to not have a problem with a change in characters and settings, i cannot say the old characters and setting were better since i havent played the new one, but DMC its reminded fondly by many, specially for those who the first one was one of their first PS2 games, and i really think people would had been less apprehensive if at least they would had changed the new dmc character name, that way we wouldnt be feeling they are overwriting the old game with the new.

  • http://twitter.com/Inscyc Insanecyclone

    Bye Donte

  • Tee Niitris

    Not surprised.

    Besides the fact that a DMC title has already been released this generation (that’s not necessarily a reason, but it is a trend with most series), Capcom has stated that they want to give their titles a more “Western” feel to them. Naturally, DmC (being made by a Euro-based group) wouldn’t have as many points of appeal to the Japanese market compared to the older games.

    A more intriguing question would be how is the game faring over here and in Europe compared to DMC4. Considering the backlash, I’d be surprised if it’s doing better.

  • nickmanx5

    did anybody notice hd collection outselling the new one on amazon

    • http://twitter.com/Leo058 Leonidas Eliades

      Yup, myself and a lot of other people went out and bought the HD collection on or around around DmC’s release date. To send a message.

    • Herok♞

      I wouldn’t much stock in the fact that a cheaper game is out selling a more expensive one, I figured it was common sense if DmC was outselling HD that would be worth noting.

      • gold163

        Yeah but you also have to remember that the reason why Capcom would put out an HD collection in the first place would be to appeal to existing fans as well as engage new fans from the new game. The fact that the older game is selling more than the newer game, cheaper or not, should say something, since the newer game has a massive advertising budget to back it and the old game does not.

        • Herok♞

          Then again we really don’t get concrete numbers from amazon for all we know it could be doing really well there as well.

        • M’iau M’iaut

          They more likely put out an HD collection because every other significant PS2 era series has gotten a remaster. That sub-$20 price point is very much equivalent to the candy and gum at the supermarket register — folks just add it in. That’s why its dangerous to make a direct 1-to-1 to buying habits. It also explains why so many $5-15 Wii games sold when they were center aisle in every Walmart, and those had NO ad budget.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      Consider the cost?

  • Spirit Macardi

    This article actually gives me hope for the future: Since a vast majority of fans aren’t buying the game due to the radical changes instead of getting it anyway simply because of the Devil May Cry name, it means that games really are starting to be treated the same as any other art form!

    • Kaihedgie

      No. Just no.

      Yes, I would buy this game simply for having the DMC name But you know why? Because I like seeing other people’s take on an established series, putting an interesting spin on everything and giving way to fresh new ideas.

      • Spirit Macardi

        There’s a difference between a new interpretation and just plain missing the point.

        What if someone interpreted Batman as a gun-toting psychopath who openly killed criminals and didn’t even wear a mask? People would be ticked off, and rightly so. I mean, it would be “interesting,” but it would also betray the entirety of who the character is.

        • Kaihedgie

          Batman has used guns before and we already have a psychopath in the form of All-Star “I’m the goddamn” Batman. I think you yourself have missed the point since this is suppose to be a reboot and thus can have its own continuity different from the original. Y’know, like Mortal Kombat. Same characters, different look, different outcome. Characters who previously weren’t present are now there and everyone who is present barely looks like they previously did during that time.

          • Göran Isacson

            And when Batman uses guns, and the “goddamn batman”, are pretty much universally hated choices. I think he still has a point that you’re not seeing, that even if you reboot you will hurt your chances at success if the reboot takes the character TOO far from its core values and draws.

          • Kaihedgie

            Except…they didn’t. At all. The only difference between DmC Dante and DMC3 Dante is the hair and coat. That’s just about it, really. He’s still a jerkass who plays around with and smart mouths his enemies. What Ninja Theory did that Capcom didn’t do however was actually give him proper character development and made both halves of him actually matter, both plot and gameplay-wise. At least this game had flashbacks.

          • Göran Isacson

            … I am going to withhold replies to this until after I’m done with the game story (at chapter 17 right now), but unless they do something spec-effing-tacular with Dante in the final chapters (may happen, is possible), I think this is gonna be one BIG “agree to disagree”.

          • puchinri

            You have to remember, comic fans also abhor and criticize those kinds of take on Batman, just as Göran Isacson pointed out, so Spirit Macardi’s point still stands.

            If this were a spin-off, I feel it’d be a safer way to handle radical changes and such, but the point is, they decided to wipe everything and say this is the series now. That is not a wise decision.

          • Kaihedgie

            Here’s the thing though: the original series Dante was still being used in crossovers while this game was being developed.

            Honestly, I’m not going to miss the old canon. You don’t even have to play the games in chronological order; they were all over the place and there were no lines to connect the dots. Playing Devil May Cry just for the story and raging over changes and overwrites is kinda silly considering it wasn’t going anywhere in the first place at the pace it was going. DMC was not a series whose story wasn’t even worth taking seriously. We aren’t talking about some epic tale taking place in an ancient, yet futuristic setting from far away, we’re talking about a half human/demon hybrid who lives off of pizza and sundaes and whose dialogue mostly consists of cringeworthy one-liners. You’d think they could have made an interesting story around that, but they chose not to.

            I assure you the whole world’s not going to stop spinning over the possibility of a messed up canon being overwritten. This is coming from someone who played the entire original series, read the manga and novels, and watched the anime

          • puchinri

            Which was also interesting to me.

            I will miss the old canon. But in most part, because I felt like there were still things to approach and do (even story-wise). They aren’t too all over the place really. Keeping up isn’t that bad to me.

            Also, we have no clue where this could have went (and I’m not sure what Capcom will do with it anymore). Looking at everything actually, I feel this world is a bit more cluttered and I’m not sure where exactly you could take it from here.

            For me, DMC wasn’t about the “story” so much as it was the characters and how light-hearted and fun that was. Which, to me, when used right, the story isn’t less relevant so to speak.

            I am a huge Sailor Moon fan. And while I grew up with the anime first and now appreciate it a lot (after watching the dubs and subs), when I was introduced the manga and began keeping up with it, I couldn’t understand how someone could necessarily enjoy it more. Even with all the “character development” that some characters got, it just loses a lot of the appeal that the manga had. And while shorter, the manga being so fast-paced and straightforward was a benefit to how its story was handled. I’m sure they tried to keep the filler of the anime clear and relevant, but it ends up contradicting a lot and leaving holes at times. And to bring this all back to the point, DMC is BSSM!manga to me. It was very limited in how much story it told, but that was not a detriment, and by taking away some of what it made work so well (being so dark, fast-paced and science-heavy for BSSM; being campy, simple and straightforward for DMC), it kind of clutters and hampers the potential of what comes later.

            Maybe they will make this work well and take it somewhere cool. Maybe they’ll just reboot it again. At this point in time? I’m actually burned out and don’t care anymore to an extent. I’d hate to see them kill the series, but if they keep handling it with so little tact, I think they need to leave it alone. (And I mean, playing around with their own decisions, expectations and so on.)

          • KingRuff

            Ok, name one reboot that ever completely changed the character that was good. You can call me up when I’m 80 to give me that answer. Using Mortal Kombat doesn’t make sense either because, even in the reboot the characters were still themselves! Scorpion didn’t develop a personality and become mister happy fire man. You don’t even read people’s comments before you reply. Nobody said a reboot couldn’t change the looks. Its when you change everything fans knew about the series that it becomes a problem.

        • Setsu Oh

          ahahhahahahAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHA!
          excellent! the punisher! excellent! never thought of that before!
          batma/ironman, yeah, of course but batman/punisher never! nice!^^

    • Fr33Kingdom

      Wow no. Not buying a game because of it’s name is not any better than buying a game because if it’s name and the fact that you think that’s what art is supposed to be treated like is the stupidest thing i’ve heard today man.

      • Spirit Macardi

        And your run-on sentence is the funniest thing I’ve read today x3

        There’s this fantastic invention called a comma. If you’re planning to debate someone, it may be something you want to look into.

        • Fr33Kingdom

          Yay for my poor grammar! It’s easier to insult defening your poor reasoning. Lol yes my grammar is bad, i also make a lot of spelling errors typing on my phone. Thanks for noticing.

          • Spirit Macardi

            The problem is that your reasoning was incomprehensible. I would have actually replied to it as well if I could actually grasp what you were trying to say.

            My point was that any other art form would face scrutiny from people for severely changing elements that had been firmly established prior. Games have been lacking that scrutiny on a truly notable level, but now it’s been shown that people clearly do care about it enough to radically affect sales figures. So now hopefully we’ll see less of this same behavior in the future being excused on the grounds that “it’s just a game.”

          • Fr33Kingdom

            All i’m saying is that a certain number of people failing to buy a game that YOU either didnt like or think is “too different” does not in any way shape or form validate an ENTIRE MEDIUM. To insinuate anything even close to that is ridiculous. Passing on a game because it’s different than you would expect is not some higher form of scrutiny indicative of a mature art form. It’s just an inability to get past your own biases. You also have no way of knowing why people didnt buy it but your explanation makes a hell of a lot less sense than media create’s theory.

          • Juan Baker

            You’re not supposed to get past your biases to be in agreement with someone else opinion, which is what you’re stating.

            You’re also stating that being critical of a medium doesn’t validate it…Well let me ask you something.

            What are we discussing here? Video Games. You, him, and every other person that took time out of their life to be critical(being in favor or against) of this product seems to think it’s a valid topic. Else wise you wouldn’t be here.

            I’m kind of tired of your pseudo-intellectual replies. They’re condescending while at the same time being intrinsically stupid. All that to say you’re just a plain old Hypocrite.

            Why didn’t you try and get over your own bias to see his side of the argument? Why didn’t you try to get over your own bias and NOT purchase this game?

            You’re asking someone to put aside their opinion and entertain something they don’t want to while you act as though the same couldn’t and shouldn’t apply to you because you’re somehow “right”.

            Please don’t say I’m assuming these things; This is what you’ve typed out here in this public space. And unless I’m imagining all these words, I do believe you meant what you’ve said.

            So you can only agree this is not an assumption on my part, but your own stated opinion.

            Again, this (and any other) hobby isn’t validated by being “Wong” or “Right” but by participation.

            Now, the last thing you say is that consumers not being happy with a product(which IS what the situation is and why Spirit stated it) and not purchasing it, makes less sense than people who were indifferent to the product, not purchasing it….WHAT?

            Pseudo-intellectual?

            I rest my case.

      • margherita mastropaolo

        again you try to flip things
        anyway i’m glad that we gamers have standards,worldwide
        and both japan and englands reaction to this game provides us with a shining example of what happens when quality drops

        • Fr33Kingdom

          Hmm not sure where my comments went but i already explained this post. Not flipping anything. Making the claim that just because some gamers didn’t buy a game that you disliked the entire Medium has now passed some threshold is total bullshit. Disliking a game because you’re incapable of appreciating it for what it is rather than what you think it should be is not some sign of discerning taste.

  • Adol

    Is really sad that they can’t see that the game is very good only for the Dante’s appearance, i really like the changes in gameplay and design that Ninja Theory did, DMC 4 was boring and repetitive, the graphics were all gray and without any sustance, this new DmC is colorfull and the music very cool, is a shame that for all the people that only wants a ” pretty” or ” metrosexual” Dante, we can’t see a sequel of this new design.

    • Ferrick

      oh god… again and again, its not the looks or the hair…

      • Kaihedgie

        So why do you go to every post that mentions it?

        • Ferrick

          i don’t, just that no one commented on here, so might as well write on it =P, but hey, atleast i don’t say sh*t about the game like the old posts eh ?

          • Kaihedgie

            I guess :U

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        Except, in this case, it probably was. If Media-Create are right and the casual fans sat this one out, it was because they didn’t like what the game looked like at a glance. These aren’t the type of people to sit around on Internet boards and argue about the combat.

        • Ferrick

          well you do have a point there, i mean they (capcom and NT) didn’t really do a good job in advertising the game in the first place, like the whole first two trailer were to show on how much of a bad boy their dante is, and not the actual game

          though i do believe that the other reason is because propagandas and DMC doesn’t really mix that well

      • Adol

        Then, what is?

  • SirRichard

    To be honest, I’m not sure why the reboot was necessary in the first place, let alone one that strived to be so different from the old ones. DMC4′s lifetime sales were very good (certainly better than some of Capcom’s more recent results) and it’s not like they couldn’t have put one out every few years for a bit of profit and fan favour.

    It didn’t need this to happen, and while I haven’t played the end result and won’t comment on its overall quality, to me it seems like another case of a publisher throwing what was popular about about a series under the bus in hopes that what they put in its place will attract that mythical millions-strong audience that often isn’t there in the first place. And surprise, once more it hasn’t worked.

    I don’t see this one meeting its targets, it’s gotten too much of a bad reputation from the years of anger and outraged fans. I wonder what the aftermath will be?

    • Setsu Oh

      one word: corporate.
      what sold well we can sell even more of?
      i m glad this happened, i think it had to: now the creative people behind classic dmc can tell corporate higherups ‘see? it DOESN T work! now let us to our thing!’

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        Actually, there was some discussion (by other users, not me) about this in the previous DmC sales thread. It seems Capcom wasn’t satisfied with DMC4‘s sales, hence the decision to reboot.

        • SirRichard

          That’s curious, because barring the combined sales of DMC3′s versions, DMC4 was the best-selling of the series up to that point. I understand that they want the most out of their franchises, but over 2 million isn’t anything to sniff at (hell, it was the target they decided on for this reboot!).

          I’m now not very hopeful for the series’ survival if Capcom were already disappointed with it before this.

          • Göran Isacson

            Yeah, I’m thinking Capcom was basically run by howler monkeys who wanted more moneys so they could buy MORE BANANAS, and completely forgot about what the real life situation was like and how much they should actually expect their games to sell. Because being dissapointed with 2 million sold and expecting better things from this game is… well. madness.

          • puchinri

            My boyfriend pointed out earlier while reading some of this to me how badly they anticipated this failing, because of the sale through for DmC and DMC4 and how much each sold. (I also told him how they revised their expectations a couple of times.)

            I would hope that this situation is telling to them and that they actually learned a lesson here.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            considering how they “learn” with onimusa , Megaman and Breath of Fire , i just too piss off to have faith in them

          • puchinri

            Good point. I was thinking that too. Maybe they need a restructuring in their ranks as well. :/

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            oh , plantinum game , please save capcom !

          • http://twitter.com/malek86 Malek!

            DMC4 was also their first HD game in the series, so I imagine it costed more to develop.

        • Setsu Oh

          yeah, i supposed so. that is the only reason that makes sense though, it was launched after the 2008 crisis though, i suppose and 4 million seems pretty good in those dire times we are in.
          well, a bad decision is a bad decision.

          though it gave birth to one of the best emissaries of the ‘videogames are art’ movement….

      • Fr33Kingdom

        The creative people behind the classic dmc helped with this game…..but most of them were focused on draon’s dogma and will continue their work on it.

    • Kaihedgie

      DMC’s story was already a complete mess by the time they reached 4 and you really cannot play the games in order of release.

      Then again, because the game’s storyline is all over the place, not to mention the fact that manga and novels are considered non-canon with them not even bothering to connect any of the games together….yeah

      • SirRichard

        They still could’ve just ignored the story (only the most diehard of fans would care) without going for a complete reboot, honestly, I’m pretty sure it wouldn’t have bothered as many people as this reboot did.

        • Kaihedgie

          Unfortunately, the most diehard of fans have practically run an entire smear campaign and rumors are going around saying people have actually wrote a petition to have Obama ban the game entirely

          • SirRichard

            The outrage against this one is more than just the diehards, it certainly wouldn’t have been as big if it was a DMC5 that didn’t pay much heed to the stories of the games from before while still building on the gameplay of 3 and 4. It would likely still have its vocal detractors, odds are, but certainly not on the scale of DmC.

          • Kaihedgie

            I think it would have been just as much. Believe me, if it wasn’t one thing, it will DEFINITELY be something else. Whether it’s DLC, a new character or something along those lines. Gamers feel more content with complaining than they do playing games in general

          • SirRichard

            “I think it would have been just as much.”

            It really wouldn’t have; if it was the same old Dante acting as he has since 3, and the gameplay was just a touched-up 4, no-one would’ve bat an eye. To say it would’ve gotten anywhere near the hatred this game has is to be disingenuous.

            Would it have eventually garnered complaints for one thing or another, for some aspect of the game or Capcom’s business antics? Sure. But it wouldn’t have been rejected as heavily as DmC.

          • KingRuff

            If you honestly think that you have never played DMC before. The only reason fans were mad was because all the changes. If they had done like SirRichard said the game would have been much more widely accepted by fans.

          • Kaihedgie

            Too bad for you I’ve actually played all of the games

          • Ferrick

            as much as i hate the game, why would the others want to bring politicians in to ban it =/, its just beyond stupid…

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            i think that just what Anti-anti fan doing , that just too stupid of them , no , human to put their neck in the hang !

      • LynxAmali

        I played them in release order and it made perfect sense to me.

        I just like to pretend 2 never happened though.

  • MrSirFeatherFang

    Maybe everyone is waiting for the PC version :D

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      that’s hardly the case !

      • MrSirFeatherFang

        Yeah I know… was trying to be optimistic
        btw I’m Vietnamese too :D

  • Tien Ron

    i hear alot of good things via DmC’s twitter page, i think they should stick with the reboot i like it it’s still fresh and new i would love to see the direction it takes

    • Tien Ron

      i agree i love the new character design of this new dante it’s more real and it suits the devil may cry world

      • Göran Isacson

        … Did you just agree with yourself?

        • MrSirFeatherFang

          This actually looks kind of funny hahaha

          • Göran Isacson

            It’s to the point where I wonder if they meant to log into a sock-puppet account and just forgot, or if they meant to write that reply to someone else. It is still kind of hilarious though, can’t deny that :)

      • MrRobbyM

        Um. Forgot to log out?

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          Hahahaha. XD

        • Ferrick

          AHAHAHAahahhahaha XD

      • Unlimax

        See People .. This is why we don’t have nice things in gaming… from that kind of people .

  • AlyOssan

    Not surprised at all really. Pretty much their entire goal with the Dante redesign and such was to make it more western-oriented.

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      which they fail right now !

  • Herok♞

    Well I say before we say DmC will be a good or bad seller I say we should wait, if it just fades then theirs your answer if it does well good for Capcom but at this point in time I think people on both sides of the argument just need to calm down and move on with life.

  • Akane Zuliani

    I’m sorry for my previous posts and display, I’ll refrain myself from making any posts that are attempts to fish for replies until I play the game myself, feel free to delete this comment, I just wanna you guys to read so you know I really am sorry.

    • Kaihedgie

      It’s aight :U

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      Very well. No offense taken, but I’ll hold you to what you said here.

  • Sylveria

    You mean a character who’s design was born out of the a western dev. studio’s idea that Japanese design sensibilities aren’t cool and was actively made to antagonize the existing fan base didn’t mesh well with the Japanese? Shocking. Maybe next time mocking one of your target audiences shouldn’t be part of your design document.

    • Nathan Ortega

      The “target audience” was the mainstream global gaming consumerbase and not just Devil May Cry loyalists. Clearly that move didn’t work out for them (largely due to a lack of a significant marketing push IMO), but it would be foolish to think that tossing out longterm fans in an attempt to make it a bigger hit wasn’t their intention.

  • Unlimax

    My faith to the gaming industry just restored .. a bit , Now Capcom learn from your faults and work on Devil May Cry 5 with the same Dante that we all loved from the beginning , The result may shock you in terms of sales if you want those Precious Sales ( Also : DO NOT include Nero as a part of problem , We just want the true Dante .. that’s all ) .

    • Adol

      If the old Dante is going to return, i really hope that they used the new battle system, i don’t want another Resident Evil 6!

  • Richard N

    Seeing as how this one was supposed to appeal to Western fans more I’m not surprised by Japans reaction. It still sounds to be performing well especially critically. I doubt Capcom will just let this one go down if it slightly undersells, if LoS got a sequel despite it’s modest sales I’m sure the same will happen here.

  • SunOatBoatMatadorQuattro

    I don’t think Capcom ever expected DmC to be successful within Eastern gamers when they made it to appeal to Western gamers. Also check this picture:

    http://i.imgur.com/mlaZ5vA.jpg

    Dante {DMC: DMC}: Shxx!! What the Fuxx? axx Hxxx

    Dante {DMC 4}:This is US for real. *DMC 3* : Wuaaaah~

    Dante {DMC 2}:…What if, DMC5 keep on good sales at this rate, does that means we all going to get an reboot in that style too?

    All: WHAT?!
    Dante (DM3): Go get them!

    • Göran Isacson

      As much as I love the style here, I can’t say I really get the pun- are they all worried that their games are going to be “retold” with the new Dante? And if so, is DMC3 dante cheering because he wants the others to suffer as he has?

      Because that is pretty hilarious.

      • puchinri

        That is indeed it, basically. And yeah, DMC3!Dante makes it more hilarious. (As well as the reactions from the others.)

        • SunOatBoatMatadorQuattro

          DMC3 Dante (If I get rebooted, everybody else will be rebooted too.)

          • puchinri

            Which is such a scornful/vengeful way of being. But fitting and hilarious.

    • puchinri

      I remember seeing that a while back. It was kind of telling in a way. (I also love the way Dante used the majide.)

      edit : Also, I think you forgot the question mark for DMC4!Dante.
      (> “This is US for real?”)

  • margherita mastropaolo

    i remind posting something about how i sold this game after seeing firsthand it’s bad ai shallow gameplay low framerate and poor story but i can’t see my post anymore,i wonder if it was deleted

  • Calintz YT

    There was no need to overhaul Dante’s design and base him on some crappy looking emo punk stereotype. Maybe Ishaan will finally realize just because it was made in the west, it doesn’t automatically make it superior.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Where it was made has no bearing on the end product in this case. The end goal and target audience are what counts. The “made in west/made in Japan” argument is pointless and stupid.

    • Kaihedgie

      “crappy looking emo punk stereotype” Apparently having black hair and a dirty look must mean emo…

      Despite the fact that the original Dante barely talked, had long white hair. once went around shirtless and got impaled by his own weapons on a regular basis

  • Brion Valkerion

    Funny that about 6 months before this came out the director of this reboot at Ninja theory said “Japanese ladies love new Dante and the game will sell well there” Then the same week the DMC trailers hit PSN Japan and were all rated 1/5 stars lol… Funny.

    Either way biggest problem this game has, horrible horrible marketing and trailers. They tried so hard to make him a “bad boy” persona that they skipped all the interesting parts of the game. Still have not bought my copy yet and probably wont any time soon but I saw some cool stuff in the cutscenes that made me want to buy it, but the trailers gave no indication the game was like that.

    Oh well, Capcom’s fault.

    • Göran Isacson

      Have to admit, I’ve only been following the trailers seen here on Siliconera- how has the marketing been in general? From the sound of your post it doesn’t sound too good…

      • Ferrick

        lets just say that tmeem was much more busy going into a cussfight with someone on twitter than actually advertising the game properly

        • Göran Isacson

          Why do I ask questions when I know the answers will just make me sad :( ?

          • Ferrick

            “alas, that’s the reality of this world, were you to cover your eyes with the fog of doubt and not seek the truth, you will be happier with the lies of the world~” small interpret of Magatsu Izanami

          • puchinri

            Ouch. That is a great usage of that. And scary. (Gonna go ignore the fog outside my window now.)

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          It isn’t Tameem’s job to advertise the game. That’s what a publisher is for.

          • Ferrick

            well yeah, but he’s the figurehead of NT, and what he does also affects the sales and marketing, kinda like “if a politician openly expresses his anger and hatred towards other people and races, no one would want to do anything with him” and this indirectly applies to him too

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            You’re focusing way too much on the Internet argument. There’s a very select few people who actually care to follow the long-winded discussions around this game on message boards and Twitter and whatnot.

            Regardless of whether or not anyone thinks Tameem’s comments were mean-spirited or simply an honest opinion, what he says or does has very little bearing on sales.

          • Ferrick

            in the business world, how you act affects your sales both directly and indirectly, especially if you are its figurehead, take Jobs for example, if he were throwing around cusses and saying other products were bad, lesser people would want to buy his product, no matter how good they were. the same applies to tameem, if it were a small and private dispute, it won’t affect much towards the sales, but the fact that he acted that way attributed to people’s views of him (and no, i’m not comparing between jobs and tameem, was just using him as an example).

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            I’m going to stop debating this, since it’s obvious nothing I say will convince you. You’re welcome to your opinion. That said, I don’t think the vast majority of potential consumers would even know who Tameem is. The Steve Jobs comparison is pointless. Jobs was practically a global celebrity. Tameem isn’t.

          • Guest

            wasn’t comparing tameem to jobs, was just using jobs as an example

          • Kaihedgie

            Dude, if you hate this game, why do you still linger here?

          • Guest

            and now i know who keeps nega voting all of my posts.
            its because i’m the lingering ghost~~ Ooooo~~~ i’m going to suck your soul out~ (for the most part, i’m still here because my comments are still being commented on, sooo yeah)

          • Kaihedgie

            Why just, stop clicking on DmC links and stop commenting by yourself period so you won’t get replies?

          • Guest

            habit, its like when getting a notification about someone replying or commenting, it feels like an itch that need to be scratched out, its unimportant but annoying as well (after this, stop replying if you really don’t want me to come back)

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            @Kaihedgie:disqus @Ferrick:disqus
            Guys, if you’re done with the relevant topics, just spare others the pointless banters.

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      Holy , they said that , it’s not just funny , it’s clearly “in your face , NT”

  • FetusZero

    Based on the numbers presented, I actually wonder how they can claim that “core fans” didn’t sit this one out by excluding everything outside of pre-orders, as if you had to pre-order a game to be a fan.

    I do hope this makes Capcom consider a proper DMC5 though.. if they don’t kill off the series.

    • gold163

      The big games industry is so focused on pre-order sales. The corporations have tunnel vision when it comes to these types of things; if Ninja Theory really wanted to make a statement about “games as art” then it still boggles my mind as to why they’d go with Capcom, a company that is very obviously only looking out for its financial interests.

      What this means is that Capcom only cites lifetime sales if it’s to make a marketing point. Street Fighter X Tekken sold relatively well, and broke a million sales, putting it on Capcom’s bestseller list. But we all remember how the game turned out, and we all remember the mixed reactions to that one as well.

      • FetusZero

        Hmm.. games as art. You’d have to think it over going with Capcom as you said, after all.. they’re the ones who shut down Clover Studios, that alone should of hinted it.

        All of this reminds me of when Inafune left Capcom, clearly stating his “disgust” with how they operate.

      • TrevHead

        You have a point about the industry been very focused on pre order sales but with so many console games crashing in prices so quickly on the net I can’t say I blame them.

        I think much of industry needs to go and have a rethink and focus more on selling their games over the long term and not side step the issues with passes and f2p. Much of the problem lies with how console games are sold as PC games seem to have much more healty long tail pricing models, much of it down to digital stores like Steam and GoG been more proactive in selling games over a long period with sales of games that get slightly cheaper as time goes on.

        Consoles on the otherhand are way behind, they rely too much on traditional 3rd party retailers and the closed system means the platform holder often doesn’t do enough to market and sell games through the console itself. Just look at MS and XB Live which is a dreadfully backwards place compared to PC digital stores.

  • LordKaizer

    remember when capcom said they wanted to cater to casuals because catering to fanbase will ruin the series?

  • Los Valos

    Seriously everyone, keep it up. I actually gave this game a try, and I still feel bad about spending hard cash on this. This game failing would be testament to that we as gamers will not mindlessly buy whatever crap is shoveled at us like Capcom/EA thinks. Have faith, Rising is coming!

    • gold163

      Platinum are my only gods.

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      If you haven’t read the other discussions on this page, there are multiple factors that could have affected the sales of the game, such as the Western aesthetics not appealing to the Japanese audience.

      • Dick Mountainjoy

        Or you know, Changing everything core fans of the series love about it.

        And then making it heavy handed social commentary instead of a light-hearted camp adventure.

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          If the sentiment here is that they’re “wrong” for not continuing to appeal to the old fans, I disagree. I don’t think the core fanbase was their primary aim to begin with, considering the changes they made. Capcom wasn’t satisfied with the sales of DMC4, hence the reboot. They couldn’t have been blind to the possible consequences of going through with that decision; they made the choice, and now they’ll have to go through with the consequences.

          If there’s anything to be said about the situation, it’s that the new direction didn’t bring them the success they wanted, but even then, there’s no telling how differently things would have turned out if there weren’t a mass of vitriol against the game.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            If people wanted a Gritty, Western focused spin on DMC with a more accessible game-play system, they’d just play God of War.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            Again with the close-mindedness. Old series had people who liked it and those who didn’t – same as the new game. It’s fully expectable that some people won’t like the new game, but keeping a series stagnant just to please old fans is ridiculous.

            And I’m not even going to begin on how that comparison doesn’t make sense; GoW and DMC play completely differently.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Stagnant? DmC It’s the same gameplay just with a toned down difficulty and a gritty western polish. If people were tired of DMC before, More swears probably isn’t going to change their mind.

            They play differently because GoW was built from the ground up to be casual and western friendly. Not modified from a hardcore Japanese title. They are still the same genre, and God of War is probably the closest thing DMC has to a Rival Series as far as sales go.

            EDIT: How am I close minded? If you reboot a series you have to expect comparisons to be made. And if you dumb it down for casuals of course the hardcore are going to be mad. It’s common sense. It’s a gritty reboot that failed because it alienated the core fans.

            Look at something like Lords of Shadows, For all it’s… Unoriginality and over reliance on QTE’s and Mythology Screws it doesn’t go out of its way to alienate the old fans. It still feels… Respectful to the old series. Gabe could easily fit in the old games, a few plot twists aside.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            That’s the point of alternate continuities: They’re separate from their original counterparts. For all the coincidences people can point out between them, those ultimately don’t mean a thing.

            And let’s not forge information: Lords of Shadows‘ play mechanics are completely different from the contemporary “standard” of the series. Compared to that, DmC is at least well within the same genre as its predecessors.

            “And if you dumb it down for casuals of course the hardcore are going to be mad. It’s common sense.”

            That doesn’t even begin to make sense. If people really feel justified in getting mad at developers for trying to appeal to another audience, the only thing I have to say to them is to get a perspective. That “hardcore superiority” mentality is just selfish and inconsiderate.

            “It’s a gritty reboot that failed because it alienated the core fans.”

            That’s another level of missing the point. Did you even read the title of the article? If anything, the game failed to attract more casual players as it was aiming for. Even ignoring that, there are various reasons that could have affected the sales. Don’t make it all about smug hardcore fans who are just looking for an opportunity to dismiss the game.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Castlevania already had one drastic overhaul before LoS, so people weren’t really latched to a specific style or genre, just an overall theme, which LoS more or less hit.

            DMC was a Genre Innovator though, Alternate Continuity or not they still alienated the core base by dumbing down the game, the same reason DMC2 is the reviled one of the original series. People played those games because the combat was so tight and demanding. The same reason Demon’s Souls series resonated with gamers. So if you take that away, they aren’t going to respond. There are plenty of hack and slashers that are super intuitive to pick up and play in Seconds, Like Dynasty Warriors and the like. There isn’t much like DMC besides Bayo and Ninja Gaiden, and even Ninja Gaiden shafted itself because of casual pandering.

            And as for why DmC failed to attract a “Casual” Audience. Perhaps the more abrasive lead, the darker tone, the heavy handed social commentary, things the “Casual” Gaming market generally doesn’t care for.

            There’s a way to attract casuals while still keeping the established fans satisfied Accessibly doesn’t always have to mean simplifying and handholding..

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            “Castlevania already had one drastic overhaul before LoS”

            There you have it. There’s a first time for everything. I’m not arguing that all the decisions regarding the game were perfect, but the aftermath is for Capcom to deal with; not consumers.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Except the consumers, In this case the Classic DMC fans have lost what they want out of the series, all for the benefit for the “Casuals”…

            Which didn’t even really pay off for Capcom so far.

            A reboot or overhaul shouldn’t alienate the old fans, it should give them an improved version of the character they like. The biggest problem with new Dante is they didn’t address the main complaint of the old one, namely his Sonic-esq arrogance and “WAY PAST COOL” Attitude.

            As apposed to the new Lara Croft, which looks to overtake the vapid fan-service girl she was before with a deeper, while still tough heroine. Most of the complaints for new Lara people have are that she comes off as weak, and those people clearly don’t get how origin stories work.

            EDIT: Or an even better example XCOM. The fans turned overwhelmingly on the reboot FPS, so the powers that be decided to also make a RTS to appease the old fans, and it turned out to be an overwhelming critical and fan darling, and a pretty decent seller.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            And that they will . But i can’t understand , for me what you saying is DMC was for Japanese gamer and DmC are for Western gamer , for that DmC sale fail . If that the true then surely Western sale point should have save DmC sale right now , cause i don’t think Japan can beat Western population or gamer !!

    • margherita mastropaolo

      so did i,i’m glad i could sell my copy to gamestop

    • Fr33Kingdom

      Would you like a medal fornot liking the game? Please understand that many people do like the game and that you rooting for it to fail just because you didnt like it makes you seem like a child. The rising demo made me think the game was shallow, generic, and outdated, but i dont hope the game fails.

      • margherita mastropaolo

        dude i state the reason i disliked the game AFTER PURCHASING AND FINISHING IT in this post

        i remind posting something about how i sold this game after seeing firsthand it’s bad ai shallow gameplay low framerate and poor story but i can’t see my post anymore,i wonder if it was deleted

        you just insulted metal gear rising without pointing any real flaw inherent to the game who’s the child?

        • Fr33Kingdom

          Dude, i dont have a problem with you not liking the game. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, my problem is that you are rooting for a game to fail simply because YOU dont like it. That makes you a child, not because you didnt give reasons for disliking it.

          The reason i dislike rising is irrelevant but if you must know it’s because i found it to be a shallow action game with nice animations. The game is visually weak and bland. The boss fight was awful and outdated. It was formulaic without any real fun. The level design seems like platinum just discovered polygons. Like i said the gameplay feels shallow and blade mode is a really great idea but awkward to control. And raiden’s movements are poorly suited for the level. It’s boring man. Which is a tragedy coming from the people that made Vanquish. That’s not to say that there isnt fun to be had, the animations are great so fighting can be fun if not a little mindless, running and blocking bullets is cool and blade mode has some cool moments. Overall i dont understand how people that complain about the gameplay of dmc would prefer a more shallow game with awful art, poor/outdated level design, and at least one horrendous boss fight. I mean really if you thought the succubus fight was formulaic or boring, the dog robot has like 3 attacks and just does the “fight till you hurt me enough, jump away and send out some weaker fighters to provide you with health and a change of pace”. The only good thing about that fight was being able to chop up the boss into pieces. You may not have liked the cursing before the fight, but the succubus fight, but the succubus had a lot more than three attacks and you had a lot more options fighting it. It was fun and at least had some measure of personality, and even after you beat it, there’s one more part where you are basically putting it down for good. To each his own i guess. I even really liked the dynamic music in the dmc fight, it managed to make things really exciting. I also liked the music in the rising fight in a “saturday morning cartoon” sort of way. I’m just really disappointed in platinum.

          Though despite all that i still don’t want to the game to fail, because i know many like it and want to see more.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            first i never hoped for dmc to fail but after buying it playing it and finishing it i found so many flaws to the point that i had to sell the game,second again most of the things you say like awful art shallow,bland this mindless that are simply not true,for example in rising the enemies attack you constatly so that you have to find stragies to defeat them instead of just standing there like dmc enemies do as i already said YOUR BIAS IS APPARENT

            THE LOCATIONS LOOK SPECTACULAR,JUST LOOK AT THIS TRAILER
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JSoC4lE0fbI&list=FLNIqfAbXRjhoh8YQEZX4rTA&index=4

            ALSO THE BOSS BATTLES CONSIST IN A SERIES OF EXCITING DUELS AND EACH ENEMY HAS SEVERAL MOVES AND DIFFERENT PHASES,THE DOG IS THE VERY FIRST BOSS AFTER THE PROLOGUE,,TO SEE WHAT I’M TALKING ABOUT CHECK THIS TRAILER

            http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=pdhZGOCY3Qg#!

            WRITING A LONG LIST OF GENERIC INSULTS THAT HAVE NO CONSISTENCY WITH REALITY DOE NOT CONSTITUE CONSTRUCTIVE CRITICISM

            but then again you might have formed your judgement without having enough information so go ahead and check these trailer and then tell me

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            dat cap

          • M’iau M’iaut

            He likes to yell, it makes his arguments that much stronger.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou
          • margherita mastropaolo

            yeah i should use partiality deflection and sensationalism like any good professional would,but what can i do?

            i’m no moderator

          • Fr33Kingdom

            EDIT:
            Hahaha i got you confused with the original commenter. You can actually pretty much ignore all of this. Since it was intended for someone who made all the comments, and you didn’t.

            And i saw that locations trailer, it doesn’t help as much as you think. Except for the one set in some sort of ninja gaiden style temple, if a shooter released with that kind of color pallet we’d call it brown/grey and generic, whether it had good gameplay or not. It’s desaturated and very drab. Seriously look at it. I don’t care if eastern europe looks even worse in real life, i expected better!

            And enemies do attack you more in rising, but that doesn’t make the combat any better. If you judge a game’s combat based on how often enemies attack then sure, it’s better. They attack more but you still mindlessly mash away at them until you feel like using blade mode. I’m saying i don’t understand how people can criticize dmc’s gameplay, but then praise rising when you have considerably less options for defeating enemies. Unless there are unlockable combos there’s really not much to the combat system except really nice animations. I mean it’s just light and heavy attacks and a blade mode. That’s it. Blade mode being a really cool idea, it’s execution leaves a bit to be desired.

            When it comes to the boss fight, mini boss or not the dog was god awful. It’s hard for me to judge the boss fights by video because despite great animations, the gameplay in the demo was lackluster. I didn’t remember but i actually saw that video before, and i like the look of a lot of the boss fights, i tend to prefer bosses that are closer in size to the player character. And i like the concept for some of them too. That doesn’t change the fact that unless you have some solid progression in the game, you’re attacks are still limited. Maybe i should look at it more like viewtiful joe, since it had fewer options of attack, and obvious routines with bosses. Though despite great animations the game kind of lacks a great style that i can appreciate like viewtiful joe. It also lacks dodging mechanics of viewtiful joe so even there it’s hard to compare. The boss fights look fantastic from a conceptual standpoint, the shields, the multiple arms, the invulnerability to being cut is great, but i have no idea if they’ll actually be fun to play since my first impression of the game is mindless button mashing.

            A long list of generic insults? No. I told you the things i did not like about the game based on it’s demo. The art direction and the level design were just bland. The level design was predictable in a “playstation one era” kind of way. And raiden’s ninja run didn’t feel suited for the environment, lots of running into walls. That’s as specific as i can get.

            Now it’s not entirely fair for me to compare dmc and rising. I normally wouldn’t but that’s what everyone else has been doing.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            The robot dog just a mini boss , you can’t expect it to have that much move , but the succubus fight or Mundus spaw are really boring for big ass boss , they easy too read , the sss column just go up very fast it’s piss me off . The graphic between Rising and DmC are heaven and Hell if you ask me . But everyone have their opinion and i will respect your .

          • Fr33Kingdom

            The style meter is waaay too based on power, which is why it’s too easy to get sss. That’s absolutely true. I found the fight to be a lot of fun. but if you didn’t that’s fine.

            Even as a mini boss it’s pretty awful but not as bad. I mean it was incredibly boring. Compared to say, a mini boss at the beginning of vanquish? I can’t help but compare them and in that sense Rising does not live up to platinum’s past work.

            Thank you for the reply.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            how do you know that it’doesn’t live up to platinum’s past works if the game is not out yet?
            i’ll repeat it,slowly so you can understand it
            you are biased

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            that’s too is my thought !

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            margherita mastropaol’s point is right , right now we been compare a Demo’s gameplay with a full game , that not good . But to be honest , i think we can clearly say Rising won here ! Still , it’s my thought !

          • M’iau M’iaut

            That would mean more if his and other posters comments about the full game were not the same things they were saying from day one concept art. One making buying decisions based off a demo with actual game play does have a bit more stable ground to speak from.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            then why are they talking about the sucubus’s fight !

          • Guest

            what are you saying?,i got raising demo with zone of enders collection,please make some sense
            i also bought dmc and finished it before writing here

          • M’iau M’iaut

            Basing his opinion off actual game play is far more chance than folks gave DmC.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            not really,as i said i bought played and finished the game before selling it and voice my opinion about it

          • Fr33Kingdom

            I said “in that sense”, by that i mean even if that’s the mini boss and the first in the game it doesn’t really compare to the fun i had with even the earliest parts of Vanquish and the options available to me for taking them down.

          • Fr33Kingdom

            Oh and you might want to explain what you think bias actually means. You think i’m bias against platinum games? Do you think i just hate metal gear solid? Do you think i played this demo and had intentionally did not enjoy it just to make you angry? What is my bias?

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      Platunum and Atlus are the only Japan can make awesome game nowaday

      • puchinri

        Nooo, don’t say that! There’s also Level-5, Nintendo, MMV and at times, GHM. Amongst others.

        • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

          Yes , yes ,you are right , i’m sorry , i forgot about them but i just sad that my wallet can’t have all the money to buy their awesome game too so i point out 2 of my best choice company !

          • puchinri

            Haha, it’s okay. I was just being over the top and whiny. Haha, good point. It gets expensive trying to keep up with everyone. ;u;

    • Adol

      But Rising is very crappy, you don’t play the demo or what? Raiden is so slow and all was very robotic, well, for me the game needs polish.

  • http://www.facebook.com/eric.tharnish Eric Tharnish

    Granted that when you say you’re trying to get Call of Duty’s audience/sales, you do risk failing to capture any significant sales on top, I still believe there were other facts hurting Capcom. The 3D action genre just isn’t as popular as FPS. Another thing to consider is that Capcom is taking a risk with anything that strays from the norm, although I do feel a less backhanded regard for Devil May Cry’s legacy as a franchise would have gone a long way in helping them in terms of at least positive PR. Self-loathing is pretty pathetic when projecting belief in confidence in your work. Not shitting all over one’s legacy would probably go so much further in getting people to believe in your product.

    Really, scale and the current model of business shows just how trapped a lot of legacy companies like Capcom are, at least ones I know of in Japan. Konami and Square-Enix also spring to mind. Just because sales are down; however, doesn’t convince me that all of a sudden Japan sucks. The latest Ask Iwata had me cheering for the Japanese developers who are calling out that this “Decline” is just some straight up perceived bullshit. Part of why I come to Siliconera is how dedicated you are to covering Japanese gaming news, I think there are things the Japanese do that non-Japanese developers don’t even come close to understanding. As radically out of nowhere as this is coming, compared to what I was speaking about earlier, this Western ideas vs Japan crap is usually just a construct argument with some thinly veiled racism, as far as I’m concerned.

    Whatever Capcom learns from this, I really think they need to evaluate their effort past “We didn’t get enough sales.” Sales aren’t the problem, the way the market is now, I feel that that’s going to eventually destroy them and it’s not particularly useful going forward. Make the best games you can, trends will come and go.

    • TrevHead

      I just can’t understand why Capcom would remove much of it’s identity to focus on a more casual market, one that is quite frankly getting burnt out of hack and slashers since there’s so many of them. Look at Darksiders 2 that didn’t perform that well either. I suppose the success of the Batman games a couple of years ago was what spurred them on.

      I think Bamco are in for a rude shock when they release their “more accessible” Dark Souls 2 and will wish they made a game aimed at their existing playerbase like DS1.

      • http://www.facebook.com/eric.tharnish Eric Tharnish

        I feel like Dark Souls 2 won’t have to worry about being thrown in the kind of pile that 3D action games are going into, though. People have entirely different expectations of the Souls games, and I’m not so sure that From made a bad decision now that I know that the guys taking over are at least from the inside development team. I feel like they’re giving their new guys a chance to take the reins.

        I had the same initial worry before things were clarified. At the very least, we need to see if Dark Souls 2 is as radical in change as DmC was. When I saw the Dark Souls 2 trailer I was excited, when I saw DmC’s release trailer, I felt insulted. That’s something I can say Bamco didn’t mess up on, they’re letting From Software rock.

        • TrevHead

          True whatever changes From make to DS2 can’t be as bad as how DMC was handled in respect of its fanbase. That trailer put DMC in the worst possible light with the fans and it all went down hill from there.

          AS for how Ds2 pans out we can’t really say anything until we get more info on the game. I would call myself atm optimistic but cautiously cynical.

      • Dick Mountainjoy

        Accessible and Dumbed Down aren’t always the same thing.

  • $30632660

    How could they not get more sales than that with all those positive reviews?

    • Locklear93

      Critical acclaim and sales don’t always connect, simple as that. Plus, after Gerstgate, the business with… MCV, I think, and a fake Tomb Raider loving journalist, and doubtless other situations I’m forgetting, much of the gaming press isn’t viewed as very credible anymore.

      • neo_firenze

        I definitely agree that often there is not a clear connection between critical reviews and sales. Look at how RE6 and Operation Raccoon City got slammed in reviews but still sold very well despite the negative press.

        I’m not sure that DmC sales have much to do with people not trusting the gaming press though. Seems like there are a lot of people who don’t even want to hear what the reviews have to say, they simply already made their minds up about the game based on the hugely controversial design decisions and constant complaints online by a vocal segment of the gamer community. The way Ninja Theory interacted with the community probably didn’t help their case though.

        Personally, I was wary of what they were doing with DmC but I ended up getting the game anyway and I am enjoying myself! It’s not DMC3, and it’s not really trying to be. But I get that some people feel it’s too much of a change, don’t like character designs, don’t appreciate the decreased focus on precision fighting, etc.

    • Nemesis_Dawn

      Because critics often don’t speak for the people. In fact, a lot of the times, critics are people who aren’t even particularly big fans of the franchise they’re reviewing.

  • neo_firenze

    Is it really that shocking that more casual Japanese gamers stick to their traditional yoge = kusoge (Western game = Shit game) mindset? True or not, it’s a pretty common belief. It’s generally a particular niche of Japanese gamers who are more accepting of western-style stuff.

    I have to believe Capcom realized this though, and that expanding the series in the western markets was their bigger goal (and a sensible one given the vast size of the NA market). It DOES surprise me a bit to see the comments about EU sales though.

    • margherita mastropaolo

      the game was just bad,no wonder it didn’t outsell,it’s predecessors and that’s in both japan and the uk,i bought it and finished it and i’m just glad i could sell it to gamestop,also you’ve got some nerve saying that japanese gamers are biased,as if western company and press don’t attack japanese games at every chance they get

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        Actually, they don’t. The west has, for the longest time, been more receptive of Japanese games than the other way ’round.

        • margherita mastropaolo

          guess you’ve never been to ign and g4tv then.
          good for you

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            No, I just don’t make blanket statements regarding the entirety of the western hemisphere based on the comments of a few.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            a few GIANTS that pretty much drive the opinion of the vast majority of video gmae critics and reviewers,and that doesn’t even takes into account the huge pressure exerted by the major gaming companies,any statement can be considered a blank statement if you’re not impartial

        • neo_firenze

          Yep. And it makes total sense on consoles, where Japanese developed games were far more common than western games from the 8-bit era well into the PSX/Saturn/N64 generation (during which time western devs tended to stick more to computer platforms – PC in NA, stuff like Amiga in Europe). Most of the iconic console games worldwide were Japanese. For instance, all of the huge hits by a little company called NINTENDO…

          So, generations of western gamers were introduced to console gaming through games made by Japanese, and were indoctrinated into the hobby seeing Japanese games as normal. The widespread availability of large numbers of western-developed games in Japan, on the other hand, is a much more recent phenomenon that Japanese gamers are less familiar with and some are more resistant to.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Pretty much! Nintendo, Konami, and Capcom played a huge role in roping western gamers into the console scene back in the 16-bit days, and then Square Enix and Sony blew it open even further with the PlayStation.

            Even today, I don’t think the west “dislikes” Japanese games or developers at all. I think what we all want is simply for them to be better than they have been. And some are clearly amazing. From Software, Platinum, Nintendo, Capcom, Monolith Soft etc. have all been recognized for putting out great games.

            The problem is more that the western development scene has gotten better and is catering to western trends like multiplayer, which very few Japanese developers have done. That said, the western press still seems as interested in Japan as ever. I mean, even the VGAs this year. So many major reveals from Japan.

            People like to base their views of the western press on their reviews of games like Neptunia and Atelier, but hey, those games aren’t for everyone. If a 25-year-old man doesn’t like playing a game about little girls dressed up as game consoles, he’s allowed that right. It’s pretty sad that this is perceived as a sign of hating everything from Japan.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            . If a 25-year-old man doesn’t like playing a game about little girls dressed up as game consoles, he’s allowed that right. It’s pretty sad that this is perceived as a sign of hating everything from Japan.

            it’s a biased review,is the same as saying that shooters are for guntoting rednecks

            i know pleanty of men that age who enjoy pokemon,neptunia and the like

            with that said you really got some nerve,need i remind you of the endless stream of military shooter the western companies produced in the last decade?the countless games like island of the dead that in spite of several gamebreaking bugs got high scores from the press?

            man i remember a time where shooter were cool,the time of quake arena and unreal tournment,now all we get is that boring generic military fps,and this kind of games always gets a free pass from the entirety of the western press no matter what bug they have,no matter how bland and unoriginal they are,especially after you’ve played a dozen of them,
            have you played the singleplayer campaign of black ops 2? i have,the enemy ai is garbage and even if we put that aside the console version have plenty of bugs that are unpatched in the disc release

          • M’iau M’iaut

            Those military fps games target an audience that isn’t you. They are multiplayer experiences, and most complete reviews do cover on and offline as different experiences. He*l in more than one case they have been completely different games.

            Guess it’s my time to remind you that is what we’ve been reminding you of for many moons now. Each and every game was not made with each and every gamer in mind. The 25 year old (or whatever age) male, female or Martian who plays CoD over Neptunia is as legitimate as a male, female or Martian who chooses the opposite. And how loud you yell your personal insults will not change that here.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            Those military fps games target an audience that isn’t you.

            wrong again i’ll play black ops two on split screen with some friends tomorrow,they’ll throw some free beers and a free ride home as well,but i had to work around the game flaws and limitations to be able to enjoy it

          • neo_firenze

            Bingo. Some people are a little too caught up in saying the western media hates Japan because X-Play made fun of some “wacky” Neptunia game or doesn’t like Dynasty Warriors. But they conveniently forget the glowing praise for completely Japanese games like Mario or Zelda – games which most people are so comfortable with they don’t even consciously think of the games as “Japanese” since they’re so universal in their appeal.

            Heck, Spike TV’s game awards show had major blocks of time dedicated to reveals for a Metal Gear game and Dark Souls 2, both of which were excitedly reported on by the western press. Sure doesn’t sound like Japan-hate to me…

          • SirRichard

            It’s funny to see people claiming the Western media hates Japanese games when Ni No Kuni is strutting around with 9s from the likes of IGN.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            they cannot bomb MAINSTREAM japanese games or their bias would become apparent

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            OK, banned.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            dude i played games on pc during the fifteen year and i still do,what you say is tinfoilhattish,japanese developer have a long history with making western looking games,from bionic commando to dead rising two

          • neo_firenze

            I’ve been playing both Japanese and western games for years myself. I grew up on a steady diet of PC stuff like Sierra and Lucasarts adventure games, or SSI’s AD&D Gold Box series… while also loving Japanese console and arcade stuff from the likes of Square, Sega and SNK.

            This isn’t about me though, and it’s not a conspiracy, it’s just true that the average mainstream Japanese gamer is hesitant to play western games. Just like it’s true that the average mainstream American gamer is into stuff like CoD and Madden.

            By the way, Dead Rising 2 was co-developed by a Canadian studio (Blue Castle Games aka Capcom Vancouver), so you might want to think of a better example ;)

        • Dick Mountainjoy

          Funny, i don’t see a huge trend of Western Series being Japan-tweaked for the East… Besides Ratchet’s terrible eyebrows.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            That’s because the Japanese market is too small and tough to break into for western publishers. It isn’t worth it for the larger ones.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            But the trend does show that the west is slowing turning on the elements of Japanese Art and Gameplay.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            …it does? Where?

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Ace Combat, Castlevania, DmC, Bionic Commando, Front Mission Evolved, Silent Hill. All fairly respected Japanese series that were whitewashed in one way or another.

            EDIT: Meanwhile games like Call of Duty and Operation Raccoon City do quite well in Japan.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            May I ask for a bit of clarification? Ace Combat has always been a first/third person shooter with jets and Castlevania, Silent Hill, Bionic Commando and Front Mission really didn’t catch a lot of flak until their ‘westernized’ versions. And again, the audience for the newer games in these series was just not the same as the originals.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Assault Horizon replaced the Japanese Styled Cutscenes with a very Western Looking Artstyle, and it was simplified and made grittier, not unlike DmC.

            And that’s my point, all these series are being whitewashed to appeal to the fairly recent wave of American Gamers turning on Japanese Styled games.

            Well, I don’t think Silent Hill was intentionally whitewashed, but it’s has not recovered since being given to a rotating door of Western Teams.

          • Kaihedgie

            The Marvel anime, Powerpuff Girls, Mass Effect, Halo.

            Plus Japan actually does dub American media

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Those are spin-offs and One shots. Mass Effect 3 wasn’t an anime JRPG, Halo 4 wasn’t an Anime SRPG, Marvel didn’t become a Manga Division.

          • Kaihedgie

            Kinda missing the entire point. All of these examples I listed were of Japan doing their own take on Western media. Didn’t say anything about what genre they were.

            I’m guessing you’ve not heard of the 70s manga for Spider-Man and Hulk as well as another manga for Wolverine. Oh, and an inverse example: Mangaverse.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            There’s a whole collection of figurines of DC heroines and villains done in an anime style. The Star Wars manga even made it back to the western side of the Pacific.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            You are missing the point. Those are one-offs.

            I guarantee if DC Universe was rebooted as a manga the american fans would be livid.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            The difference is Halo isn’t becoming a Anime Series, Marvel isn’t turning into an entire Manga Company, Mass Effect isn’t becoming a JRPG.

            These are side-projects to tap an unlikely market, not total series overhauls.

            EDIT: If there was a Western Made DMC comic staring Classic Dante, there wouldn’t be an uproar. But rebooting DMC to pander to Anti-Anime Folks and Casuals isn’t quite so keen to the old fanbase.

        • SunOatBoatMatadorQuattro

          I think this is more notable with the Metal Gear games.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            Which stars a white guy, who defends america from terrorists…

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            Quite a few, if you think about it. Metal Gear, Final Fantasy, Tekken, Soul Calibur, Street Fighter, Resident Evil, practically everything from Nintendo, Gran Turismo etc. The west is far more accepting of Japanese games than the other way ’round.

          • Dick Mountainjoy

            What I’m seeing is that Japanese games have more racially diverse casts. In an American Game you’d be lucky to have a Female or American Minority as a lead, much less a Japanese lead.

      • neo_firenze

        How do I have “some nerve” by noting something that’s a fairly well understood long-held attitude by a lot (certainly not all!) Japanese gamers? I’m not just making this up based on my own opinions.

        My previous comments made no judgment about whether that view is fair, whether Capcom made a good or bad decision in developing DmC the way they did, or whether DmC is a good game. I’m simply expressing a lack of surprise that the same group of Japanese gamers who have traditionally been rather xenophobic toward western games didn’t go crazy for DmC.

        I am not saying all Japanese gamers feel that way. There are niche groups in Japan who love stuff like Call of Duty, and outlets like Famitsu gave DmC rather good reviews. But I’m also not ignoring reality.

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      the thing you should say is , true or not of that belief , should Western DmC sale point outsale Japan much , much more unit right now ? Should it save the game right now ? You can’t blame japan’s superstition for DmC’s fail .

      • neo_firenze

        I don’t think you’re wrong.

        My comments here are only about one thing that could help explain why mainstream gamers in Japan didn’t appear to be too enthusiastic about DmC. I think Capcom understood that risk, but took it anyway in the hopes that their strategy would pay off from increased sales in the west.

        Maybe they were wrong, if these early EU numbers are any indication.

        • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

          well , only time will tell us that DmC fail or not . So we should just wait and have our final judgment , cause this topic have became ridiculously long , it’s make me tired to see all the new comment .

          and anyway , can you tell me how you keep track with all your new reply , please ! My twitter account doesn’t do that , maybe you used facebook account ?

  • http://www.facebook.com/MrPrinny Alex Smith

    See what you did Capcom? See what pissing off your fanbase does? It takes out your sales. Capcom needs some better market research.

  • TrevHead

    Are we seeing a similar thing with DMC as we did with Ninja Gaiden 3? IE changing the games format and forsaking their loyal customerbase in hopes of attracting a possible larger casual mainstream demographic, gamers who have no interest in the game anyway since the casual hack and slasher market is very overcrowed anyway.

    This doesn’t bode well for Bamco and From and their apparently more casual and mainstream Dark Souls 2. As a fan of that series I do hope that fails aswell so hopefully they can go back to the tried and tested inaccessable Souls that has built up such a large fanbase that Bamco delude themselve into thinking it’s a mainstream game with it’s playerbase ok or wanting a more casual sequel.

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      “their loyal customerbase”
      “As a fan of that series I do hope that fails aswell”

      …Wow. What loyalty? “I’ll be loyal to you as long as you give me what I want” is just selfishness.

      • margherita mastropaolo

        the customer’s always right,have you forgot that?
        that’s the first rule of every business

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          It’s a quote meant to emphasize the importance of customer satisfaction, not something to be taken literally. Customers can choose whichever service provider they want, but claiming “loyalty” and then lashing out at the first sign of inconvenience isn’t “loyalty”; it’s hypocrisy.

          And when you have “customers” that want your business to fail, I wouldn’t put my money on their decisions.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            first yeah and apparently british and japanese customers are unsatisfied as the game’s sales of both japan and uk suggest
            also i didn’t say anything about loyality,another user did,don’t try to put words in my mouth

      • TrevHead

        yeah yeah that was a bit fan dumb as it remains to be seen as how much DS2 is from the originals before I light the torches, however if the format is changed so much that I can’t enjoy it then sadly I do wish it flops like these 2 games, I doubt it’ll spell doom for the series as it’s too popular it’ll just be a black sheep like DMC 2 which could mean a DS3 on par with DMC 3 after that.

        But I digress this is alot of what IF’s, my original point is that all these niche hack and slasher devs might just be chasing a casual demographic that just isn’t interested in their games.

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          “I doubt it’ll spell doom for the series as it’s too popular”

          If a game doesn’t sell well, popularity won’t mean a thing. Didn’t people just learn that from the reason for DMC reboot? Capcom is a big company with (presumably) appropriate amounts of resources. Do you really think a niche company like From Software can take a bomb like that?

          Again, I stand by what I said earlier: Wanting a game to bomb just so that developers go back to what you personally want is selfish and unrealistic. Because, at that point, they won’t even have resources to make something you might like.

          • TrevHead

            OK fair point, consider my arse well and truly red :D

    • Nemesis_Dawn

      I think it really is a matter of them forgetting who keeps them in business. If we don’t buy the games, they don’t get to keep making the games. It’s a symbiotic relationship that they didn’t seem to think of. If the fanbase doesn’t like something, you don’t know better than the fanbase. You give us what we want or don’t be surprised when it doesn’t sell. As long as you give us what we want, we’ll buy it. It’s not hard to figure out.

      If I go to the ice cream stand, I want to buy ice cream. I don’t want them trying to sell me pig liver and telling me it’s better than the ice cream I enjoy.

      • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

        You guys sure do love your food comparisons. Entertainment is not the same as buying food. Entertainment is about surprise and keeping people entertained. Food is about eating what you want to eat. If you’re going to make comparisons, at least use comparisons that make sense.

        • Nemesis_Dawn

          How is entertainment about surprise? That can be an aspect of it, but many times, what people want involves the exact opposite of surprise. Sometimes, people want something familiar. When people buy a Call of Duty game, the fanbase would certainly be surprised if halfway through the game, all the characters became moe school girls and there was a banana eating contest, but I don’t think they’d be necessarily happy with it.

          Same thing with this series. We want a game called “Devil May Cry” to give us the things the previous games called “Devil May Cry” gave us. The same gameplay, the same characters, the same frame rate, the same level of challenge. If they want to throw in a surprise or two during the game, that could be good or bad, but not everyone buys entertainment products to be surprised. If the next Devil May Cry game was pretty much DMC3 with just different locales and storyline that took place within the Devil May Cry continutiy, I think most of the people in the fanbase would be overjoyed with it.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            How is entertainment about surprise? That can be an aspect of it, but many times, what people want involves the exact opposite of surprise.

            What? Dude, listen to yourself. Entertainment = surprise.

            That’s the whole point. Every medium ever. Books, movies, videogames, comics. Surprise, suspense, the carrot on the stick of what’s coming next… that’s what keeps people coming back. That’s what the best kind of entertainment is.

            Yes, familiarity is required to an extent but they didn’t turn Devil May Cry into a dating-sim. You’ve contorted this whole discussion into such a semantics-driven farce that I think you’re just saying these things so you can have more poop to fling at the game for no reason. I’m so disappointed that we’ve reached this level of immaturity in the comments where people are so cut off from reality that they can’t see outside of their own narrow line of sight.

            If the next Devil May Cry game was pretty much DMC3 with just different locales and storyline that took place within the Devil May Cry continutiy, I think most of the people in the fanbase would be overjoyed with it.

            And what if they didn’t want to make that? They’re a creative company. Maybe they don’t want to do same old shit over and over again. Have you even considered that? Yes, you may not like what they do, and that’s a reasonable thing to say, but treating them like they shot your family dead because they’re a creative company and wanted to try something different is ridiculous.

            Again, I’m so ashamed and disappointed by how childish people can get on the Internet, and on Siliconera most of all. This is exactly the kind of behaviour we discourage on the site and you’re like the shining example of the kinds of commenters we try to keep away.

            I wish I didn’t have to be so straightforward and harsh, but frankly, the staff and moderators would love nothing more than for you to go away and never come back here, because it’s honestly incredibly depressing whenever you post anything in the comments. We’re all enthusiastic about games here, and your childish, snarky drivel is just really terribly depressing.

          • Nemesis_Dawn

            It’s sad that you wish to make things so personal. I think my contributions show that I am also enthusiastic about games, as well. I don’t understand the drive to shut up someone simply because they disagree with you. I’m not one of the people making homophobic comments about the new Dante’s look or saying that I hope Capcom go out of business or even implying that reviewers who liked it were paid off, as many others do. Those type of comments, I can see are out of line.

            I am simply a fan of videogames who loves the medium and states his opinion when there’s a subject that interests me. People don’t always have to agree on everything, you know. It’s what makes life interesting.

            I don’t see why you have to be so mean spirited towards anyone who has a different opinion than you.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            What you’ve been constantly doing throughout is trying to argue semantics of why the new game is still “made for” old fans, but how it’s not good enough for them. This isn’t made for old fans, period; they weren’t part of the consideration. I’m not interested in defining whether Capcom’s decision is “right” or “wrong”; they made the decision, and they’ll handle the outcomes. But don’t speak like a company has the obligation to keep appealing to the same fanbase until the end. This is a creative industry; it’s within the nature of the business and their freedom to experiment.

            It’s really sad how the thread was initially about people trying to speculate various reasons that could have affected the sales, until “displeased fans” came in and made the issue all and only about themselves. It’s ridiculous.

          • M’iau M’iaut

            When it comes to DmC, all we seem to hear is that because you think the fans are being ignored, that makes it so.

            Just taking today — DmC was not advertised on the sly as pig’s liver pretending to be ice cream. The everyday normal folks on these threads who choose to like the game are not paid off reviewers, nor do they have any less right to be considered fans of something they enjoy. You have your own ‘picture’ of what makes something ‘Devil May Cry’ yet can direct posts that give an air invalidating other folks pictures. I can’t help but compare that behavior to how you react when folks rally too tight around a much more niche game. There, you can be more inclusive and understanding of folks who come to a title from more than one viewpoint.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            I’m not making it personal, I’m just pointing out that I’ve lost track of the number of times you’ve come close to being banned because the moderators are all pretty tired of your constant snark and Sony-fueled agenda. It gets really annoying, because you almost never have facts to present but continue to go round and round in arguments anyway.

            It also doesn’t help that you make everything about you. Like everything has to satisfy some invisible standard in your eyes or it’s shit. That’s a really crappy attitude to come into every single discussion with. A particular report (like this one) may not even have ANYTHING to do with you want to say, but you’ll come in and contort the topic to suit your needs.

            It’s extremely childish and inconsiderate. Other sites on the net may not mind that kind of behaviour, but we do.

            You’ve also resorted to flat-out trolling at times, like in the Wind Waker article, where you popped in going all, “Oh, well I guess it looks better than an N64 game, but that’s not hard to do. Ah well, I didn’t give a shit about it anyway.”

            Really? Why were you in the comments in the first place, then? If you don’t like something, read it and move on. You don’t have to ride in on your high-horse, announcing to the world that something is beneath you.

          • KingRuff

            Not picking sides here, but calling DMC 3 “old shit” isn’t really helping your point Ishaan. Even so, I can see where you’re coming from though. As you said, what people want out of entertainment is excitement and surprise. Most people wouldn’t buy a game if they knew the entire story before it released this is why developers make changes in the first place. Even Mario can’t get away with releasing the same levels every title(Nintendo does try so hard to do it sometimes). You also said they want familiarity, which means that if a story is about a pre-established character, people want to at least know it is that character.

            Now I personally think that if you had taken DmC, called it anything else, and sold it, people wouldn’t have even compared this to the DMC series as much. It would have been called a cheap DMC rip-off at most. That is the main problem. Not that DmC is the worst game ever, I have in fact played much worse, but that it tries so hard to not be DMC when it is supposed to be a retelling of it.

            I’ve seen comments here insulting criticizers of this game as being nothing but “butthurt little fanboys”, complaining cause Dante’s hair isn’t white and other little things. What they don’t say though, is that Tameem reasons for changing the game are more petty than even that. He created Dante’s new look because he himself thought the old Dante wasn’t cool. Selfish much? Personally I think yes.

          • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

            By “old shit,” I wasn’t referring to DMC3 specifically. I was referring to the previous DMC series as a whole. I didn’t mean it in a negative sense either. I like DMC3 and 4 very much. As you said, the 2D Marios have this exact same problem. There’s just not enough that’s new for people who aren’t in love with Mario to begin with.

            As for Tameem’s re-designing of the character… that point I’m afraid I’ll have to push back on. Tameem’s original design was closer to the original Dante. Capcom were the ones that asked for a more radical change to be made.They were the ones that asked NT to come up with an entirely new look.

            And this is exactly my point. People, without knowing the full story or bothering to Google it up, love to point fingers. This is precisely what I dislike with the vast majority of people who like to come into the comments and express distaste for this game. They almost always have their facts wrong, and I don’t think there’s any excuse for that. If you’re hardcore enough to argue about minute details such as these on game forums, then you’re hardcore enough to do your research before getting into a discussion as well.

    • KingRuff

      Woah Woah Woah!!! Hold up a minute! DmC is one thing, we have seen its results already, but Dark Souls 2? All we have is one trailer and a few articles. Don’t wish failure on a company for one statement you probably didn’t even understand anyway.

      Also they never stated they were gonna take the hardcore outta Dark Souls, they said they were gonna make it easier for more people to get into the game. Maybe they may add a lower difficulty or something. You can’t take everything companies do as a personal attack to you, that’s just childish.

      • TrevHead

        As I said in my subsequent post I am getting rather far of myself with speculation on how DS2 will turn out. However what is known is that some changes are happening with DS2 both in gameplay terms and whose making it. A trailer doesn’t really prove anything, just like Ninja Gaiden 3′s trailer was typical of the series.

        The main point of the post is that with both DMC and Ninja Gaiden 3 bombing hard From might be in for a similar fate if they do the same.

        However you are mistaken if you think i’m as childish to consider what devs do as a personal attack. I simply won’t buy a game if I don’t like it and would hope for the dev to make something I do like in the following sequel.

  • Gildohma

    Devil May Cry 4 could have also sold more in japan because they had that L’arc-en-Ciel song in the commercial lol

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      This is a fantastic point. That certainly could have played a big role in sales. Marketing goes a long way toward defining the image of a game in the public’s eye..

      • margherita mastropaolo

        this is a fantastic point???
        do you need to search for good reasons this game didn’t sell as well as his predecessors?as a reviewer shouldn’t you be impartial?
        ,the fact that you’re willing to go to such great extent to defend this game is a sufficient proof of your bias

        • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

          The wonder Japanese music artist can do for other type of media.

          • margherita mastropaolo

            the lenght you can go to defend a game that bombed in japan and uk,very rudimental buggy as hell and with only paid critic’s reviews as merit
            that’s how you earn people’s scorn

          • Herok♞

            you do know not selling as well as the expectation/predecessor doesn’t make the game a bomb or else alot of things in the industry would be absolute critical failure, The game wasn’t nearly as buggy as you make it out to be, and the game didn’t need paid reviews it was a pretty good game.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            Don’t bother…really Herok just don’t.

          • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

            Holy shit by just saying that automatic label me as a defender of DmC. I only played the game like bloody 4 hours so yeah I’m really not on anyone side since I’m yet to experience the game to the fullest. Okay since you said the game is buggy numerous of time in this article and the fact that this game didn’t sell as much as it was intended, I will simply stop playing it *sarcasm*. What I have to say about the game is only PC related so it doesn’t really have a room in this article.

            Don’t bother replying to me because I can’t be damned to read your reply since clearly you’ll be saying the same thing all over again.

          • Mrgrgr and Unacceptable World

            Indeed. When a single singer like Gackt can make a normal game being succesful, u know how important is marketting here.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          Maybe you should stop talking. I don’t think you understand how marketing works.

          Oh, and I’m not a reviewer. We don’t do reviews. And I’m not interested in your stupid fanboy whining. I’m interested in understanding why this game isn’t performing as well as the previous ones.

          If you have nothing sensible to contribute and are just here to whine and pick fights, get out before you get banned.

      • Mrgrgr and Unacceptable World

        Indeed here. This actually just stroke my mind here as this is what i always complained about Sega.

        Why don’t they just do what make them famous during their Genesis era? They can just uses artist or actors power to attract both casual and harcore gamers into purchasing more of their games.

        I mean like Moonwalker game which uses Michael Jackson as the character here, why don’t they make a game based on Linkin Park maybe? Lolol.

  • l777l

    “That leads them to this theory is that release week pre-order sales for the PlayStation 3 version of DmC Devil May Cry and Devil May Cry 4 were about the same. They suspect that core Devil May Cry fans opted to pick the game up while casual fans didn’t.”
    Yes, and no consoles have been sold to fans since 2008,

  • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

    there , that theory say it all . The DmC not just fail to charm die hard fan , it’s also fail to do so with normal gamer , so right now DmC fan should stop blaming on other DMC fan !!

  • Immortal1

    DmC is the best-rated Devil May Cry game since the original. Ninja Theory must have done something right.

    Remember, it’s about the game itself. Not a character, not a hair style. Cloud’s spiky hair didn’t make FF7 a cool game. Solid Snake isn’t cool because he wears a bandanna. Dante did not make Devil May Cry a cool game back in the day. It was just a cool game period.

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      Money can do everything !

      • Immortal1

        Ninja Theory made a great game – Capcom “fans” don’t want to admit it!

        • LynxAmali

          Technically, a great game also involves a great story and memorable characters as well.

          While Ninja Theory delivered on the Great Gameplay (Really like how they improved on DMC4′s combat.) it lacked a great storyline or memorable characters.

          It’s a good game but not a GREAT game by any means.

          • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

            the guy here said all i want to say !

    • Nemesis_Dawn

      Who cares how the critics rate it? It’s the fanbase that spend their money on games. Why should we listen to people provided with free copies of games trying to tell us how to spend our money? Very often, they’ve given bad reviews to great games and good reviews to bad games. In the end, they’re just opinions. Often the opinions of people who aren’t even particularly skilled in or fond of the genres they review.

      • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

        Oh yeah, because users rated it so fairly on sites, right? If you’re gonna dismiss reviewer opinions because they’re supposedly “biased”, fine; but if you really wanted to hear fair opinions, you can still find plenty of non-mainstream reviewers saying the game is okay. Hell, even admitting that you didn’t like the game while some others did (for all its pros and cons) would be understandable.

        At this point, you just sound desperate.

      • Immortal1

        Why should I care about how a critic feels about a game? Why shouldn’t I? They play and review games for a living. They don’t get games for free, they’re given copies to play. They can’t keep them. I value gamers’ opinions too, but I mean sometimes they just act petty and immature. Case in point: plotting revenge on Capcom by intentionally rating DmC low on Metacritic… without even playing it.

  • darkfox1

    I wonder if that is truly the reason?

  • Immortal1

    The reason why the original Devil May Cry was so good is because it was how Castlevania should have played in 3D. It was a finely tuned action game. It really did feel like a classic the moment I played it. And It had nothing to do with white hair. Are you game players or fashionistas?

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      no , you’re wrong . Castlevania LoI and CoD are not that good , even the reboot one combat are somehow miss it’s spirit too ( i mean in 2D one we can always skip a battle to advance the next room or flee but LoS make us have to fight them off , despise the whip hit is weak , we have to farm yellow org without miss ) . Devil May Cry was so good because it’s have awesome weapons , badass boss battle and stylist combat , you can try many move on enemy . But you are right in something , i first play Devil May Cry cause Dante’s dash , wall kick and wall run look really like X in megaman so i liked it very much !

  • Immortal1

    Capcom should be applauded more for its risk-taking. Instead, fans berate them over and over. I wish Capcom could break up with its fanbase and start fresh. They are in an abusive relationship.

    • margherita mastropaolo

      you’re one of the moderator with an aternate account are you?

      • Luna Kazemaru

        Just lol? Did you really say something this fucking stupid?

      • M’iau M’iaut

        That’s quite enough. Quit these comments just because someone is different from you. No that is none of us, nor do we have troll accounts. Who and what you see is what you get, and we are too damn lazy to change.

      • Mrgrgr and Unacceptable World

        People have different opinion? Is that something so difficult to understand?

      • Immortal1

        No. Although, I’d love to be a mod if Siliconera needs one.

      • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

        Are you THAT retarded to say something like that?

    • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

      that’s way too risky , for them to be a big company . If like you said , then they should do it with a new IP . Japan game company right now don’t have more money than Western one , and they will be wipe out if they do thing risky . So that why they been trying to charm more Western gamer now , to expand their fan .

      • Immortal1

        Yeah, maybe they could have created a new IP instead of calling it DmC. But Capcom has always been one of the bigger risk-takers in Japan. Remember, they revived Bionic Commando a few years ago. That was such an old game that it was almost new IP at that point. Plus, it was never popular in Japan to begin with and more of a cult game in the West. So, they really rolled the dice there. Personally, I thought both the 3D and 2D remakes of Bionic Commando were fantastic.

        • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

          only the 2D are good ! Then they should do it with a passionate team , an original team that make the game before . You see how square enix bought the Edios team , and then revive the awesome Dues Ex with their own team . That the best example here . Capcom think they know what fan want , no , gamer want , but they not !

    • Adol

      Is just what i think, they took the risk with a new design and a new development team, and the new mechanics and design is well implemented, for an example look at how shitty Resident Evil 6 is, overall the game is really boring and i don’t see anyone crying to capcom for that.

  • http://lukalovesgames.blogspot.de/ Alkaid

    Well guess they will bring a DLC now that will fix the mindless swearing and cursing in the dialoges to attract more people, since we already have the white hair DLC it’s certainly a possibility.

    As much as I love the old DMC Series and even 2 to some extend (for introducing that awesome wallrun and stuff) I wouldn’t want Capcom to make DMC5. I mean, look at what the guys did to their Megaman Fanbase and the BoF one (which I was part of).

    It’s like Capcom weeds all the good things out, to make them “new, fresh and different” for casual gamers, to earn money more quickly. But it seems like that they can’t even see that… in the long run, they will turn into something like EA or even something worse…

  • LaserVision

    People keep saying that Capcom should bring back all old developers who made the DMC series for DMC 5, but aren’t most of them working on Dragon’s Dogma 2 anyway?

    If a Dragon’s Dogma 2 has the possibility of doing better than either DMC 4 (and as a result a hypothetical DMC 5) or New DmC, why would anyone in their right mind send good resources after a bad project? Making games isn’t as easy as everyone here thinks.

    • Kaihedgie

      They need that illusion though! That companies can breath games out at a mere whim and Capcom has bottomless bags of cash to bribe everyone :D

      • M’iau M’iaut

        I know I’m gonna be able to retire off the kickbacks I got for chasing those ‘speaking only the truth’ off the threads here. Retire when I’m like 85, I mean.

        • Kaihedgie

          I wish I had that kinda money, I could pay for a lasting comic, get games I never got, not worry about food anymore.

          But le sigh. Such a realm only exists in those guys’ minds.

  • Peeka Chu

    The theory regarding preorder sales doesn’t hold water, because the install bases in 2008 (or thereabouts, can’t recall) were MUCH, MUCH smaller. So a smaller install base, but a larger – proportionally – preorder sale demand in the past, just equals MORE excitement for 4, than for DMC. US sales are following a similar pattern. I wouldn’t be surprised to see CoD or a 3DS game ahead of everything else in the NPD when that gets released. For a multiplatform game with such hype and production dollars behind it, this game is looking to be a proverbial flop. Period. Alienation of the original fanbase is the most obvious reason why and at least when hard data like this – and NPD – gets released we can stop beating around the bush.

    I always said that fans of the series were going to speak with their wallets and walk away, and it looks like not only did they, but that they weren’t the vocal minority that journalists and forum lurkers claimed them to be. Anecdotal, but I am a regular consumer of video games, spend around $100-200 + a month on them (yes, I have the issue where I often buy more than I will ever play) and I’ve played every series entry from 1-4 including some of the remasters. That said, I have no interest in this game. I found the demo shallow and irritating (not hard, just didn’t like the controls). I also didn’t care for the emo, foul-mouthed rebranding of Dante. There was a tongue and cheek sort of sass to the old Dante, and something distinctly Japanese to his campiness, like Bayonetta. That character spark has been completely stripped out of the new Dante, and I don’t find him likeable at all.

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Not necessarily. The audience for these kinds of games is limited in the first place. Certain niches or genres don’t increase much with a larger userbase because they only ever appealed to a certain “hardcore” audience that was already invested anyway.

      • Juan Baker

        I think in this case Peeka Chu is most likely right. Though, “Niche”, DMC isn’t niche enough to not get 5 million sales. Where as others in the category do well as to break 1.5 mil. As say Ensalved or Conan, etc. etc.

        At this point you have to consider that because the series had grown it’s userbase so large that it counted on it to move most its units.

        It’s more logically sound to say that it’s not because casuals didn’t buy the game, but because most core fans didn’t; Which make up the vast majority of this series’ selling power.

        You can dismiss the campaign that went on to insure this game would sell far less than anticipated, but CAPCOM, who has more to lose than us mere spectators, reached out to the community in the last legs of the race to try to clean things up.

        I think it was far too late. But it’s dismissive to ignore a factor in what may have caused the problem just because you don’t like to admit that it WAS a problem after all.

        CAPCOM finally admitted(in their actions of reaching out to the community and subtly changing things about the game), and really in this case, that’s all that matters.

        I offer you this analogy to go along with it. If Street Fighter or Tekken failed to reach a positive number, who would you blame for those low sales?
        The FGC or the casuals?

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          In the case of SFxTK, the casuals is whom it failed to sell to. Very obviously the casuals. The FGC is who bought that game. They may like to complain about it, but they’re the ones that bought it. The casual audience is where it failed to sell.

          As much as people don’t like to admit it, the mainstream audience often makes up the majority of game sales in most genres. In the case of Capcom’s fighting games, I believe most of the casual audience had already been satisfied by Street Fighter 4 and Marvel vs. Capcom 3. By the time SFxTK came out, they weren’t looking for yet another fighting game.

          In the case of DmC, we don’t yet have an accurate picture of what’s going on, but I do think it’s fair to say that not all of the core fans are on board, while casual fans (at least in Japan) haven’t taken to it either.

  • Asura

    So it seems like we will have many updates on reasons why the game may have undersold, with not one of them including the possibility that the game is just not that good.

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      If you’re waiting to hear a big source agree with you just because you didn’t like it, you’re gonna be waiting for a long time.

      • Peeka Chu

        The media is not always representative of consumer demand or interest, case in point with the DMC reboot. Praise and acclaim for DMC are not equating into sales. This is a strange industry, because its not one necessarily based upon artistic merit or appreciation, but one of consumption and capitalism. So in the end, reviewers matter about as much as critics of big business. Small voices that aren’t nearly as important as the end result: the sale of a product.

        The only real “news” bits in the reader side of the industry are screenshots, videos and developer interviews; information pertaining the the consumer end product – whether or not we will BUY it. Everything else is just headline filler. So it doesn’t matter whether DMC is lauded as a success when its not selling under an expectation to sell. Wasn’t 5 million quoted at one time? That figure is surely unreachable. Falling far short of that target or even the original 2.7 million for its predecessor, marks it as a failure.

    • http://twitter.com/#!/kaishou Kaishou

      Don’t you worry! the cavalry coming!

  • Setsu Oh

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5L483Nze40U
    this is it people! THE ‘CRRAWLING IN MY SKIN ‘ we were talking about, wellits official; from capcom itself. where is the death metal i know dmc (always?) had?

  • Isaac Newton

    OKAY! wait it for next months then Capcom will have end the series with that previous Megaman Legends 3 announcement “Because there is no love on (insert series here) we decide to end it.”. I wish not please I wish not!

  • Istillduno

    So, think Capcom will actually stop actively pissing off their customers at every turn (on disk dlc, this, hardcoding subs into EX Troopers just because therefore ****ing over it’s chances of localisations, being allowed to use GGPO then hardly using it for anything, even games proven to work with it over several years), or do they still reckon it’s a pretty lucrative business strategy?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Read the site rules, please. We like to stay on topic in discussions and not start pointless negative debates that aren’t related to the discussion at hand.

      http://www.siliconera.com/open-thread/

  • No9

    Honestly, the main reason I haven’t had any interest in this game is definitely because of their decisions regarding Dante’s design. It just doesn’t appeal to my preferences in aesthetics. Now I know it may be weird to dismiss a game not because of it’s gameplay but because of it aesthetics, but for me games are all about the total experience and this game was not doing it for me. Maybe the casual consumers in Japan feel the way I do and just couldn’t get on board with the new Dante.

    • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

      That’s very much understandable. And there’s one speculation from around the beginning of this thread that the Japanese audience just might have felt somewhat similar about the new designs.

  • GuyAlpha

    There’s no way that Capcom is going to make a profit off of this game. They didn’t even reach their 2 million goal. Ninja Theory spent way more money than they should have (using the mocap from the Avatar movie. Yes, THAT Avatar movie). NT always does this and the game ends up being mediocre and not selling. Remember how Heavenly Sword was going to be a trilogy? I know this game has a sequel planned as well, but it would be financial suicide. Welp, that’s another outsourced failure to stuff in the Capcom closet. I hope they made room for Lost Planet 3.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jaqcues.cartagena FC Cartagena

    “We all knew this day was coming. Time for the winning team to cash in their gloating rights. :P”

    So who is cashing in the gloating rights when we are clearly witnessing that DmC is raking in the sales?

    • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

      Doesn’t change the fact that it’s a great game! It’s gotten an excellent reception from practically every professional outlet that played it. The crowd that loves to poo-poo it would have you believe otherwise.

      • http://www.facebook.com/jaqcues.cartagena FC Cartagena

        Professional? You mean like IGN, Gamespot who never pointed out the gameplay flaws? Sorry man but I’d rather hear the opinions of fellow gamers like The Brotherhood of Gaming who “reviewed the games of its flaws and merits”.

        • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

          No, I mean the 50 sites on MetaCritic who pointed out both flaws and high points, but you never bothered reading their reviews, just like you never bothered reading/understanding this article but chose to post snarky comments anyway. :)

        • Luna Kazemaru

          I like how you all act like IGN and Gamespot are the only review sites out there and always have to use them as some misrepresentation of ALL reviewers. Tho judging by your comment’s I’m sure you just came here to complain like a few others.

        • neo_firenze

          I’ll give you an opinion from me, a fellow gamer (who tends to prefer Japanese developed games to western developed ones, and who is a fan of the original DMC games):

          I was reluctant about the changes to DmC. Not a fan of the new Dante character design, really disliked the immature “attitude” and f-bombs in trailers, worried about the lack of lock-on and possibly dumbed-down combat, and really not trusting Ninja Theory (mainly because I think Enslaved was fairly awful both in overly simplistic combat, lack of enemy variety, and poor story – especially the ending).

          Well… I enjoy DmC. It’s quite fun, the on the fly switching between the Scythe/Axe weapons (kinda reminiscent of the Castlevania LoS light/dark mechanic) mixed in with the normal sword/gun works nicely. The environments are top notch. The controls are responsive, and also complex enough to remain interesting and engaging.

          I don’t like it as much as I liked DMC3, which I appreciate for it’s extremely technical precision. I don’t like it as much as I like Bayonetta. But I am still having fun with it, and it’s foolish to not even give the game a shot just because of some fanboy rage that isn’t grounded in how the game actually plays.

      • GuyAlpha

        Good review scores doesn’t mean that it’s a good game. Bad review scores doesn’t mean it’s a bad game. No one HAS to like this game, you know. The people that “poo-poo” on it, just don’t like it.

        • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

          There’s a difference between “just not liking” and “attempting at every opportunity to dismiss”. There are people who calmly state that the game is not to their liking, without bothering anybody.

          • GuyAlpha

            Well, there are those kind of people and then there’s the “shut up and accept it” crowd. I really hate it when people tell me to “just accept it” when I very obviously don’t like it. I know both sides and be very annoying, though.

          • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

            It depends on what “accept” means here though. If you’re talking about people who insist that others like the game regardless, then yes, they’re not being different from the blind detractors. But if it just means “it is what it is; feel free to like/buy or not”, then I agree with that sentiment. Things like wishing for the game to bomb or antagonizing people who liked it or casual players, however, are still out of line.

      • AaqibRawat

        Every review i have read which is 3 metro,destructoid, and you guys silicon era have pointed out that…..

        The combat is not as good as previous entries in the series.

        that is my my biggest gripe about the game and the most important thing about the game for me.

        that is why i did not buy it and i am sure my fellow silcon members also did not buy it for that reason too.

        also every professional out let without fail gives every Cod game
        great reviews.

        we know that’s bull.

      • Sylveria

        So did Kane and Lynch.

  • http://www.facebook.com/jaqcues.cartagena FC Cartagena

    Yeah I do remember asking somebody what reasons and excuses can he present me explaining the sales it seems that writing 2 articles about it and the companies blaming the fans hit it home.

  • AaqibRawat

    i donte think this game did well because…….. [ :P]

    the story was never important in devil may cry games there was to much focus on that.

    it was just a retelling which was pointless. vergil turns bad,mundus is bad guy, a stupid angel demon twist. we knew what was going to happen. it was just bits of dmc 1 and dmc 3.

    the combat was no way up to scratch. 30 fps sheesh

    dmc3 and dmc4 are older games but have better combat.

    why would we settle for something slow and uninspired ?

    all of the moves that the sycthe and axe have are variations of dmc3 and 4 moves. also demon pull and grab is just devil bringer, snatch and grab from dmc4 ,yet its regarded as new.

    dante as a character was not likable also vergil had a bigger cock that is not right.

    Their were not many advertisements or promotions well hardly [maybe one phonebox] at all in the uk.

    I work at GAME we sold 3 copies at launch, i was surprised a lot of Cod fans were saying what is the point of the game and then they would recollect about the original series being better.

  • XiaomuArisu

    Its easy,
    Good Action game?Yes
    Good Devil May Cry?No

  • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

    And so, another potentially interesting discussion about how this game is perceived by the casual/outlying audience in Japan has been sent to hell by all of the usual whiny brats that can’t put their opinions aside to focus on the topic at hand. I am disappoint. This is an early heads up, but in the future we’re going to be far, far more strict about people staying on-topic in discussions such as these. It’s getting tiring being unable to have actual sensible debates without the usual horde of whiny brats that think the Internet is their personal toilet.

    • Kaihedgie

      Would be just nice to ban people who want to be assholes simply because there are people who exist who share a different opinion from them

      • kaisa_anci

        you mean the moderators?

  • revenent hell

    If DmC had orriginally been vocalised to NOT be a reboot but an alternate reality tale,I guarantee it would have sold out.

  • Crevox

    If you finish the entirety of this game, you won’t be disappointed. The ending was good.

  • MangaTherapy

    Not androgynous enough to get fangirls?

  • http://twitter.com/lesang000 le nguyen hoang sang

    please , brother and sister , this debate have became ridiculously long for us too endure . I think everyone are too tired right now to defend our opinion . Wherever is DmC are a fail game or not , only time can tell us . We should wait for the Pc ver come out and have it’s sale count too or next week top sale to have our judgment . This week sale only the beginning , it’s too soon to destroy our keyboard for this .

    So i would like us to have a truce , wait for next report sale and then continuous our debate . Agree ?

  • shion16

    Nobody wants to read bad words on a comments section.
    People should just comment

  • Guest

    lol my comment got deleted as well
    I guess we won’t be seeing DmC 2 in the future.

  • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

    I’m the one who did that. I hope I don’t need to explain to you why it was deleted.

  • MrRobbyM

    Your comment is still there, I think. Sometimes Disqus is weird with loading comments.

  • Göran Isacson

    The sad thing is- I believe you have to. When someone says that their comment which essentially was just a curseword is deleted like it’s a MORAL OUTRAGE that it got deleted… I don’t think there’s any reaching them.

  • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

    If you have nothing relevant to say, don’t come in. Warned.

  • MrRobbyM

    This is getting ridiculous.

  • Guest

    I’m discussing about the game, what do you guys wanna of me?

  • http://wiredjungle.wordpress.com/ DrakosAmatras

    Since you still have no idea, I’ll be blunt here. What you’re doing isn’t “discussing”; it’s just posting random thoughtless comments that can’t spark any meaningful talk. And don’t try to play stupid; your previous comments were deleted precisely for the same reason.

    If you do this one more time, it’ll be a ban.

  • http://www.siliconera.com/ Ishaan

    Stick to the topic, please. If you have nothing productive to add, don’t say anything.

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